Wanted: NEW YORKERS ONLY ~ on the State of the Art (AKA "No Ideas Original")

[Guest]

I'm talking about the heads I used to post (up) with last year. Before SF got overrun by children running off at the...keyboard (the new thug life).

If you grew up where I did, five-boro-one-love stylie, and you're around my age (28) and you've seen the progression of a culture now so commercially embraced by the entire planet, and you watched it grow, almost from inception maybe, and saw it FIRST HAND (*not in books or on the shiny new shelves of some exploitive throwback boutique in the UK or San Fran) then please, please, help me rest easy.

Sure, on some level I'm a bitter backpacker, nerd, blah blah, call it what you like. But I remember a time when originality and style determined one's lifeline in the streets, the stores, whatever. But today...something is lacking. I know that people always think THEIR era was the best, the golden age..."they don't make ____ like they used to" etc. etc. but i mean seriously.

WHAT...HAPPENED? Music sucks. Fashion is a joke. There is a profound lack of creativity in the streets, the stores, the galleries. Sure, hiphop is itself a derivative culture (breakbeats, loops, whatever) and thereby any creative endeavor hoping to honor it, be it quoting emcees on tees, exploiting rap crews to sell clothing etc. will necessarily be another derivative of a derivative, and on and on etc. etc.

But from jacking comic book art or corporate typography to overtly co-opting ideas, recycling overdone designs, employing garish color schemes and lacking any semblance of design or artistic skill (even though the same is quite a subjective idea), the current scene is more than overly saturated and lacking in fresh ideas, it just...well, it just fucking sucks.

SO: I ask you, fellow TRUE YORKERS. We've lived here. We've seen it all. From the rise & fall of Kingpin, PNB Nation & EgoTrip to the summer of Illmatic, on to the contagion of Stussy (when it was on Prince St.) and it's imitators (remember Mossimo?), and inspired designers like 555-SOUL (a ratbox on Ludlow, not a corporate HQ on Lafayette) back when PhatFarm was still on the lowkey preppy golf tip...I'm talkin that UNIQUE, 99X, Slam, Union, Xlarge (on Avenue A!) Ssur (Deadly Venoms era, not DC shoes, thank you) and Footworks style...old Girbauds with Pumas, a mixture of De La Soul meets Beastie love. The cult-like search for vintage Hang Ten and rocking Vans chukkas.

NYC People, we did it all, you name it. The world knows us as tastemakers. North Face as a 'streetwear brand?' Thank the emcees. Ralph? Tommy? Calvin? Same thing. The whole backpacker aesthetic that so many international rookie punks talk shit about but have absolutely no clue what it means? it was us. We were there in midair hopping turnstyles, Sharpies in hand. Those were good days and I know they're gone...but there was something there that is sorely missing today. Originality. People had their own style. Not cut n paste from mags, sites, videos. The people making tastes were original, and thus the people making the clothes had to be original too. Not so today.

Clearly I'm not alone in this rant of the halcyon times, as we currently live in a world of reissues. Everyone wants to look like they actually wore in that $300 (or $600!) pair of jeans, but will you ever wear in anything at all, if you have obsessed over obtaining 10 pairs? Neo-nigga converts & consumer suckers feel part of a culture, they feel like they're down, by...and I can't believe I'm actually not joking when I say this...by buying limited colorways of old hightops? Did I wake up in the twilight zone? What happened to Carhartt being a work/utility brand embraced by the HitSquad? Now they actually target...skaters?!?!?

Don't get me wrong, artists have to grow, and people need to make money. I ain't gonna whine about selling out, and blah blah. I know how it works, I've seen it a hundred times. Something is dope, known about by very few, then it catches a buzz, hits the now famous "tipping point" and then >poof< the kids who were down from jum

[ABELnyc]

shit sorry y'all, i just wrote like a 2-hour rant about...well i'm sure you can guess, but it seems in that time i was automatically logged out and so i don't see the message. nevermind. i don't have the energy to do it again.

~multiflavored RodLavers~

http://abelnyc.com

ALPHA/BRAVO/ECHO/LIMA

[onemancult]

So yr just gonna leave the NY heads hanging?

[ABELnyc]

YES~ found it! thank you SF techteam! you're the best...

BELOW IS THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE

I'm talking about the heads I used to post (up) with last year. Before SF got overrun by children running off at the...keyboard (the new thug life).

If you grew up where I did, five-boro-one-love stylie, and you're around my age (28) and you've seen the progression of a culture now so commercially embraced by the entire planet, and you watched it grow, almost from inception maybe, and saw it FIRST HAND (*not in books or on the shiny new shelves of some exploitive throwback boutique in the UK or San Fran) then please, please, help me rest easy.

Sure, on some level I'm a bitter backpacker, nerd, blah blah, call it what you like. But I remember a time when originality and style determined one's lifeline in the streets, the stores, whatever. But today...something is lacking. I know that people always think THEIR era was the best, the golden age..."they don't make ____ like they used to" etc. etc. but i mean seriously.

WHAT...HAPPENED? Music sucks. Fashion is a joke. There is a profound lack of creativity in the streets, the stores, the galleries. Sure, hiphop is itself a derivative culture (breakbeats, loops, whatever) and thereby any creative endeavor hoping to honor it, be it quoting emcees on tees, exploiting rap crews to sell clothing etc. will necessarily be another derivative of a derivative, and on and on etc. etc.

But from jacking comic book art or corporate typography to overtly co-opting ideas, recycling overdone designs, employing garish color schemes and lacking any semblance of design or artistic skill (even though the same is quite a subjective idea), the current scene is more than overly saturated and lacking in fresh ideas, it just...well, it just fucking sucks.

SO: I ask you, fellow TRUE YORKERS. We've lived here. We've seen it all. From the rise & fall of Kingpin, PNB Nation & EgoTrip to the summer of Illmatic, on to the contagion of Stussy (when it was on Prince St.) and it's imitators (remember Mossimo?), and inspired designers like 555-SOUL (a ratbox on Ludlow, not a corporate HQ on Lafayette) back when PhatFarm was still on the lowkey preppy golf tip...I'm talkin that UNIQUE, 99X, Slam, Union, Xlarge (on Avenue A!) Ssur (Deadly Venoms era, not DC shoes, thank you) and Footworks style...old Girbauds with Pumas, a mixture of De La Soul meets Beastie love. The cult-like search for vintage Hang Ten and rocking Vans chukkas.

NYC People, we did it all, you name it. The world knows us as tastemakers. North Face as a 'streetwear brand?' Thank the emcees. Ralph? Tommy? Calvin? Same thing. The whole backpacker aesthetic that so many international rookie punks talk shit about but have absolutely no clue what it means? it was us. We were there in midair hopping turnstyles, Sharpies in hand. Those were good days and I know they're gone...but there was something there that is sorely missing today. Originality. People had their own style. Not cut n paste from mags, sites, videos. The people making tastes were original, and thus the people making the clothes had to be original too. Not so today.

Clearly I'm not alone in this rant of the halcyon times, as we currently live in a world of reissues. Everyone wants to look like they actually wore in that $300 (or $600!) pair of jeans, but will you ever wear in anything at all, if you have obsessed over obtaining 10 pairs? Neo-nigga converts & consumer suckers feel part of a culture, they feel like they're down, by...and I can't believe I'm actually not joking when I say this...by buying limited colorways of old hightops? Did I wake up in the twilight zone? What happened to Carhartt being a work/utility brand embraced by the HitSquad? Now they actually target...skaters?!?!?

Don't get me wrong, artists have to grow, and people need to make money. I ain't gonna whine about selling out, and blah blah. I know how it works, I've seen it a hundred times. Something is dope, known about by very few, then it catches a buzz

[doctorgnar]

Good post

I'm not sure you are going to find an "answer," but I think you came pretty damn close when you said, "I have been out of the loop these last 10 months, immersing myself in a career and trying to develop my own little creations..." If you don't like what you see -- do something about it, make it.

I think you'll find a lot of people will agree with you on this one, and that's exactly how some next shit comes up. Frustration = creativity. Sometimes. Not that we are all designers, or endowed with the means to just create whatever we want -- but if it means that much to you... Respond and react.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything you said, but it is likely that what once was has gone stale. Is it that no-one is doing anything original or creative anymore or that the street aesthetic just can't carry the same weight it once did? Does everything suck, or are you just bored or jaded?

[alm8319]

can't say i'm as old as you (only 22) but I've lived in the city my whole life and have the same issues you have. I dont remember Union as the original spot, but remember when the city had a unique style and edge to it. i think one thing that is different now is the internet. another thing was the economic boom in the 90's. there was also the mayor cleaning up the streets and making it so people who had only seen downtown in a movie felt safe to go in as they pleased. this led to the suburbs and asian kids coming through with wads of cash to spend to buy up a piece of downtown.

even most of the kids i know who were born and raised in the city dont want to be associated with it all that much because its become where you're either an mtv watching dipset poser, a trustfund LES faker or an ivy league moved to murray hill taker.

so what do I do? i wear what I want to wear and dont worry what other people look like. buy hats and sneakers that i think look nice or make me remember a different time. listen to music that catches my ear. wear jeans that i'm comfortable in. thats all it takes. cant really worry, because its the way the whole world is these days. i was driving in east harlem yesterday and saw a starbucks, and it made me realize, that there's no turning back.

[artificialsky]

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF ABEL'S LONG-ASS POST:

new york was cool, now it's wack

i was there for the cool shit, i am cool

i miss the old new york (thanks stash!)

DONE.

[KFC ONE]

This 29 year old agrees.

Great post.

[backinthetrees]

wow.

punk me, bitch.

sorry i dont have anything better to say at the moment, but wow. i'll think of something when i'm less tired and come back later.

Edited by backinthetrees on May 22, 2006 at 01:11 PM

[werdtoyourmoms]

this whole post was about clothing?

maybe you should have kept it real in the streets for the 2 hours it took to compose that.

korn feat. ice cube

[ABELnyc]

werdtoyourmoms-

no. this whole post was not just about clothing. and it's not about 'keeping it real in the streets' either, you silly cliche. but with that tone, you exemplify my points about the state of the art. youngins today don't know where they been, so naturally don't know where they're going. it ain't your fault, you've been on a steady diet of stale, vacuous pop culture since you were old enough to tie your played reissue crossover kicks.

i simply thought i would, through discussion, reconcile exactly where we are currently in the creative realm of new york city, the best city on earth hands fucking down (at least vis a vis trends, fashion, subculture, art, design, etc.). i don't care about being cool back in the day. cool then was a state of mind, not taking a picture of your morning outfit and submitting it to the internet for approval from the rest of the flock.

but hey. i don't expect much from a Korn fan.

~multiflavored RodLavers~

http://abelnyc.com

ALPHA/BRAVO/ECHO/LIMA

[ABELnyc]

Quote:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF ABEL'S LONG-ASS POST:

new york was cool, now it's wack

i was there for the cool shit, i am cool

i miss the old new york (thanks stash!)

DONE.

--- Original message by artificialsky on May 22, 2006 12:55 PM

New York is still cool. It's just tainted with toys, that's all. We need a cleanup.

Yes, I was there for SOME cool shit, but so were countless others. And yes, you bet your ass I'm cool. But if that's all you gleaned, you prolly can't be much of a help in this discussion.

I do indeed miss the old New York but a) that's relative and who doesn't?

STASH sucks. He's a classic case of right place right time. SUBWARE is shallow garbage. Anything cool outta the Recon camp is all F2000.

DONE and...DONE.

~multiflavored RodLavers~

http://abelnyc.com

ALPHA/BRAVO/ECHO/LIMA

[englandmj7]

Quote: werdtoyourmoms-

no. this whole post was not just about clothing. and it's not about 'keeping it real in the streets' either, you silly cliche. but with that tone, you exemplify my points about the state of the art. youngins today don't know where they been, so naturally don't know where they're going. it ain't your fault, you've been on a steady diet of stale, vacuous pop culture since you were old enough to tie your played reissue crossover kicks.

i simply thought i would, through discussion, reconcile exactly where we are currently in the creative realm of new york city, the best city on earth hands fucking down (at least vis a vis trends, fashion, subculture, art, design, etc.). i don't care about being cool back in the day. cool then was a state of mind, not taking a picture of your morning outfit and submitting it to the internet for approval from the rest of the flock.

but hey. i don't expect much from a Korn fan.

I understand your point and your argument, but I think that overall, the fault of the discussion is that you come off with an extremist "holier-than-thou" attitude regarding NYC, and that throws people off from wanting to comment. Personally, I think the whole "we have lost where we were going and who we are" argument is usually a reflection of dissapointment at the fact that things haven't turned out the way YOU have wanted them too, regardless of whether or not they have changed for the better or for the worse as a whole. Even then, who is to say? I think your point is logical, but at the same time, futile. It is like some dude in the Middle Ages looking at us and saying, "Fuck! Where did it all go wrong" Shit changes, ya gotta keep on truckin'.........also, SSUR was never cool. On top of that, there is NO WAY you can shit talk Stash and suck Futura's balls.....I don't care for either of them personally, but honestly, all my friends who are old school NYC heads see my Unkle paintings and they are astonished at the fact that Futura is "cool" now....to them, he was just a bummy graf artist with a small t-shirts/accessories product line.......

England

Edited by englandmj7 on May 22, 2006 at 04:59 PM

[show_N_pruv]

kids today lack the minerals and vitamins, irons and the niacin.

times up says it all.

I come fresher than a moist towelette

[ABELnyc]

ENGLAND:

i hear you, i don't mean to come off like super extremist/elitist, but i see so many of these posts by dudes who are so far away from everything, dudes in Ireland or London wearing shirts they don't even catch the relevance of...talking like "Yo fuck that, there is no better emcee than Camron..." and "Who is this Harold Hunter fag?" shit like that, etc. i know i can't be mad at that, but was just trying to limit the responses to people who could actually relate to the time i came from, the landscape from then was -- and this is barely up for debate --- all straight out of new york. no need to wax elemental about DJing, MCing, Graf, Bboys blah blah blah, but seriously...every last t-shirt "line" or clothing company, be it out of California, the UK, whatever...seems rife with young rookies fronting so hard i feel embarrassed for them. Sure, i can't hate on people doing their thing, as i said in the original post. I was just looking to get likeminded and like-experienced cats, male or female, who came up in the time and place that i did. because lemme tell you, i don't see it as futile that while NYC is still the nucleus to me, it sure is a way different place insofar as who makes the trends and who dictates what is dope. it just seems that all the right people aren't shining, all the wrong ones are getting bigger and bigger, and before you know it, there will be kids with horrible taste making their own colorway reissue sneaks, copying the same old recycled bitten styles everyone else has, all fronting so hard in their pics with their overpriced transient brand logos, tacky jewelry and champagne...oh wait, that's already happening. you know what i mean. i don't mean to complain futilely about it, i just feel like i'm curious as to what so many intelligent SF'ers think about the same thing, if they came from where and when I did, they likely see and feel what i do. that's all. but thank you for the input.

SHOWnPRUV: Bullseye, holmes.

~multiflavored RodLavers~

http://abelnyc.com

ALPHA/BRAVO/ECHO/LIMA

[onemancult]

I can't fully rep the WHEN but I can and do rep the WHERE fully, 'til death. As far as my personal perspective on New York, I can't say that I exactly miss the old NY, but I know that I miss existing in the old NY. I may be young, but I was immersed in grit since I was born; my dad carted me around to all the spots he'd DJ at, and was always very vocal about letting me know what was what and who was who. That continued into when I hit my teens and he'd tell me about the people, places, and things that made up the environment within which I was raised. Early on I may have called bullshit on dad just because that's what brash young cats do, but the older I get, the more and more I realize that he was right, and that I was priveliged enough to be raised within and during the last hurrah of a great street culture

here in NY.

All things are cyclical, however- and all chaos is merely a function of a greater order. I think things are completely fucked right now, and will be completely fucked for awhile, but I recognize that they're fucked to a degree that no one can change. They just need to run their course, and eventually, kill themselves off. Fakeness obstructs greatness, and its from ruins that all great cultures rise. Drugs may have hit hard, but our people rose up out from that and refashioned themselves as kings; their crowns may be misappropriated, but all that business will end in something disastrous. Once the rubble clears out, its going to be people willing to bleed black that will make something great out of the streets again.

Until then, ABEL, I just bide my time. I'm 20, I've got the patience and the resolve. More importantly, I've got some perspective in my head, as opposed to dollar signs and dreams.

[Guest]

i'm 25 and lived my entire life in brooklyn and remember walking from sonic groove and vinyl mania on carmine to temple records in the basement of liquid sky to wearing fleuvogs and stussy since they were next door to each other on prince...and yeah, things have COMPLETELY changed.

i was never a total hip hop head so i wont comment too much on that. back in high school, id go to burst at palladium on friday nights or the nasa parties and then on saturday, id go to a hardcore show...that was how most of my friends just did it back then.

there's many culprits...the village just isnt what it used to be. bobbito cant afford a basement on 9th street to sell old funk records and the fondle em 12"'s. the new crowd wants normal clothing with some edge and thats what we have today. frankly, i dont mind too much. im getting older and like the stuff odin and steven alan sell.

also, the old clothes werent so great. xlarge stuff always fit bad, every shirt was printed on gildan tees. one of the last traces of originality left in the area is the fact that designers got into quality materials like rogan did with denim (i remember him coming around with 5 pairs to sell to union). i remember buying vintage clothes by the pound in the antique boutique basement. i also remember that they were the first store i ever loved when they started to sell young men's designer shit.

times have changed. rock music is a joke in nyc, the club scene is filled with loser kids who are still mad at daddy, electronic music is nothing but stale. the only thing that gets me in the city is restaurants because food continues to get interesting, country and rockabilly cuz there's some good shows going on and the scene isnt filled with screaming girls, and red hook...which i find to be one of the last remnants of originality and cool despite the continued hype that comes along every now and then.

[Guest]

Been Lurking here for a minute now, discovered the site by chance, and this is the first time I've actually been driven to post.

Abel, that was one hell of a rant man. That's the type of shit I know you put some thought and heart into and regardless of weather or not I agree, I respect that. Here is where we differ though. There is a tendency when people start talking about the good old days of NYC street culture to start spitting out the names of a bunch of OG luminaries in the "streetwear" game, or talking bout how so and so "really knew what was what" and that today, NYC is run by a bunch of young bucks in clown suits (and I mean that literally, saturday afternoons in soho I sometimes think I'm at the Big apple). This is some shit that I think we can say might be true by general rule, but I think it to a larger extent misses the point.

What I miss about NYC is a feeling. Granted, I'm only a couple over twenty myself, but I remeber the spots your naming well. Footwork in particular was a favorite of mine, and i still got that fondle em shirt in the top drawer holes and all, but that's not the point. My favorite memories have nothing to do with a rich history of sneakers and premium quality t shirts. They are made up of a fucking tapestry of late nights, getting high before art class, skating the same metal curb for 2 hours straight. Dirty fingers. the Smell of NYC school lunchrooms. No such thing as limited edition clothes. Brooklyn banks bymyself cause I didn't know no one down there. not being a apart of the scene. ABC NO Rio. Building my first bike from a pile of rusty parts at Recycle a Bike and riding that fucker literally till the wheels fell off. Hopping off a freight train, feet touching the gravel of Newark New Jerz, and going straight to the nearest egg sandwhich spot... double fried with cheese lotta hot sauce...

These are things that not even the slickest, most in the know, down with the scene label can fuck with. When I see kids on here like: "I hate people who wear (insert respected REAL NY brand name here) without understanding the meaning, and the culture it represents", I just laugh a little bit. not at them, nah... I just laugh at the idea that peole think that a brand like Supreme or Xlarge constitutes or represents a culture. Are you fucking Joking? talking bout aNYthing, and how ingenious their shit is. Get the fuck outta here!!!! I respect anyone grinding for theirs, so by all means go get yours. But Half the kids who run and run with the people who are now known worldwide as Streetwear icons are the kids of New york's power elite. It's the same fucking cocktail party boys... and guess what, You aint invited.

In closing, I just wanna say that this site is real civil, nothing wrong with nice clothes, and I like the diversity of educated opinions around here. But for fucks sake, always remember... If your style sin't evident in the way you move, the way you handle yourself, and the way you treat your family. . . All the hot gear in the world can't hide the fact that your a mark ass bitch.

Much love to Abel for starting an interesting discussion, and Oneman for the opinions shared here, and in a couple other posts (you know what it is..I see you man) That's that. Easy

[RAISED BY WOLVES]

Fuck man, My 1st post, a long one too and it got lost. Yo Abel, how did you find yours? I'm trying to get up on the conversation here.

[RAISED BY WOLVES]

managed to dig this up somehow:

Been Lurking here for a minute now, discovered the site by chance, and this is the first time I've actually been driven to post.

Abel, that was one hell of a rant man. That's the type of shit I know you put some thought and heart into and regardless of weather or not I agree, I respect that. Here is where we differ though. There is a tendency when people start talking about the good old days of NYC street culture to start spitting out the names of a bunch of OG luminaries in the "streetwear" game, or talking bout how so and so "really knew what was what" and that today, NYC is run by a bunch of young bucks in clown suits (and I mean that literally, saturday afternoons in soho I sometimes think I'm at the Big apple). This is some shit that I think we can say might be true by general rule, but I think it to a larger extent misses the point.

What I miss about NYC is a feeling. Granted, I'm only a couple over twenty myself, but I remeber the spots your naming well. Footwork in particular was a favorite of mine, and i still got that fondle em shirt in the top drawer holes and all, but that's not the point. My favorite memories have nothing to do with a rich history of sneakers and premium quality t shirts. They are made up of a fucking tapestry of late nights, getting high before art class, skating the same metal curb for 2 hours straight. Dirty fingers. the Smell of NYC school lunchrooms. No such thing as limited edition clothes. Brooklyn banks bymyself cause I didn't know no one down there. not being a apart of the scene. ABC NO Rio. Building my first bike from a pile of rusty parts at Recycle a Bike and riding that fucker literally till the wheels fell off. Hopping off a freight train, feet touching the gravel of Newark New Jerz, and going straight to the nearest egg sandwhich spot... double fried with cheese lotta hot sauce...

These are things that not even the slickest, most in the know, down with the scene label can fuck with. When I see kids on here like: "I hate people who wear (insert respected REAL NY brand name here) without understanding the meaning, and the culture it represents", I just laugh a little bit. not at them, nah... I just laugh at the idea that peole think that a brand like Supreme or Xlarge constitutes or represents a culture. Are you fucking Joking? talking bout aNYthing, and how ingenious their shit is. Get the fuck outta here!!!! I respect anyone grinding for theirs, so by all means go get yours. But Half the kids who run and run with the people who are now known worldwide as Streetwear icons are the kids of New york's power elite. It's the same fucking cocktail party boys... and guess what, You aint invited.

In closing, I just wanna say that this site is real civil, nothing wrong with nice clothes, and I like the diversity of educated opinions around here. But for fucks sake, always remember... If your style sin't evident in the way you move, the way you handle yourself, and the way you treat your family. . . All the hot gear in the world can't hide the fact that your a mark ass bitch.

Much love to Abel for starting an interesting discussion, and Oneman for the opinions shared here, and in a couple other posts (you know what it is..I see you man) That's that. Easy

[Guest]

abel,

i feel your pain, man. i wasn't born in nyc, but i've been here a while (now i'm 27). the old new york made me want to come out here in the first place. shit has definitely changed for the worse, but hey, shit happens.

there's so much overwhelming ignorance and hate in the streets these days. it's really sad.

i too have seen the disappearance of styles--in a city where styles were everything.

cats now are perfectly content to be generic.

i think there are enough of us out there to keep the spirit alive. we learned a lot from our mentors, and pretty soon, we will be older-gods, if not already. it's up to us to keep new york alive. i still have a little bit of hope.

[mizanation]

abel,

i feel your pain, man. i wasn't born in nyc, but i've been here a while (now i'm 27). the old new york made me want to come out here in the first place. shit has definitely changed for the worse, but hey, shit happens.

there's so much overwhelming ignorance and hate in the streets these days. it's really sad.

i too have seen the disappearance of styles--in a city where styles were everything.

cats now are perfectly content to be generic.

i think there are enough of us out there to keep the spirit alive. we learned a lot from our mentors, and pretty soon, we will be older-gods, if not already. it's up to us to keep new york alive. i still have a little bit of hope.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[alm8319]

raised by wolves-- good post and good point. i think what most of us may miss, and i am just realizing it myself, isnt a particular way people dressed or acted. what we miss is being 15 and just hanging out in the city. when i was growing up in the city i never thought about "oh this is cool new york stuff." i just thought, this is what i do in my life. now you grow up and while of course things have changed, its more that we're just too old to be a part of what we remember.

i realized this when talking to my little sister who is in nyc public high school and she was telling me about stuff they do that was the exact thing i was doing when I was her age (only like 8 years ago), and the same stuff my older sister was doing.

so maybe its just we've all grown up a bit.

[Aotearoa]

Good meaty discussion, I've been wanting to make a thread along similar lines too, about the loss of creativity and staleness right now.

However Abel, You seem to be taking constant shots at the UK/England for some bizarre reason? Have you personally had bad experiences with a bunch of British or English people or were you treated bad when travelling within the UK? I can see value in certain things you've expressed in your original point, however the quote below is well off the mark! There is no way that 'American mall-goers' would embrace trends before the UK. As a whole, the UK market is very up to date with current trends. I can't imagine but a few cities in the States where this rings true.

Quote: Something is dope, known about by very few, then it catches a buzz, hits the now famous "tipping point" and then >poof< the kids who were down from jump consider it wack as the rest of mall-goers in America embrace it, then in England, then everywhere else.

It seems you're acting like NYC is the centre of street culture period. If you open your eyes you'll realise street culture exists in ANY urban centre worldwide. What you seem to be honing in onto is a niche within niche market. Sure, There are MINI populations from outside of the States and NYC trying to represent a culture they haven't lived or something they aren't, yet there is a MUCH larger number who don't. There are movements happening that aren't imitations of street culture developed or happening in NYC or America, throughout the world on a constant basis.

I believe there is nothing wrong with the appreciation of culture that you may not live and breathe, however if you are trying to be something you aren't, that is entirely different.

Edited by Aotearoa on May 23, 2006 at 01:01 PM

[DaBestSpoona]

I blame it soda and snapple being served in NYC public schools now

When was I their age, we had 3 types of milk, low fat choc, reg, low fat. Now kids look at milk and ask where the splenda at?

[englandmj7]

Quote: When was I their age, we had 3 types of milk, low fat choc, reg, low fat. Now kids look at milk and ask where the splenda at?

That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that kids are all hyped on on sugary drinks nowadays, yet they ask where the artificial low carb, low calorie, sugar-free Splenda products are?

Um.......

[artificialsky]

Edited by artificialsky on May 23, 2006 at 03:13 PM

[DAVE LABELS]

tthe problem is that nyc street wear is one big circle jerk. everyone helping the same people out and not letting no one else in unless there jerked. i dont understand how you can rock a graf crews logo and front like your down. WTF is that all about. i feel you on everything being a 28 year old born and bred, rocking lo since 1993 in aviation h.s. please don't get me started on california. that place is so far behind, marty is still rocking levis denim jackets and bif is waxing my pick up.

only way to change it, is to do it yourself. slap these kids in the street, shout them out. call them lame and herbs. ask them where they were. how did they learn. you'll hear alot of fumbling.

support BROOKLYN BASEMENTS.( www.bklynbasements.com ) my dude tommy rebel has been around since day 1. watch what we got instore. and believe me, you won't see a tee shirt.

[alm8319]

davel labels makes the point I always do. How in the world can someone wear a shirt with IRAK or STASH or FUTURA plastered across the front. they are getting fame off of YOU. can't bomb trains, so bomb kids chests!

[englandmj7]

Quote: only way to change it, is to do it yourself. slap these kids in the street, shout them out. call them lame and herbs. ask them where they were. how did they learn. you'll hear alot of fumbling.

You don't have to be around since day one or know what the hell a brand ultimately stands for to wear it or appreciate it, that is retarded; it is a friggin' t-shirt with a name on it, it is not that serious.....and people who get offended when they see a kid in Supreme and are pissed when they don't know who Barbara Kruger have some fucked up priorities. I swear that some of you people get off feeling superior because you were "rocking real streetwear" since day one....Dave Labels - that wasn't a personal attack fyi.....

Edited by englandmj7 on May 23, 2006 at 03:54 PM