Music Producers / Studio Thread

[Double D]

Windows 95 is essentially Microsoft's attempt to emulate a Mac OS, and that is fucking stupid.

I fixed that one for you...

[thelaststarfighter]

My iPod Mini is still running strong after 2 years. Must be some kind of record, I swear.

dammmn that must be.

I had my first ipod (3rd gen) replaced three times... i still can not go anywhere without mine.

[keagan]

I don't know how this got to this but I have to a agree when it comes to producing music WINDOWS<OS X, by a million. And i've been using os x since I was twelve.

Why? The shear number of PC only vst's out there is mindblowing, especially when compaired to the number OS X/Global vst's around.

Windows has a huge audio scene, that means less problems with drivers and whatnot, and more help when a problem arises. Not to mention almost all everything on the windows side is cracked- so there is almost no cost involved with software, if you go that route. A lot of times i'll download some vst or au or something and the installer is for OS9, and I don't have classic on my machine anymore so I miss out with that too.

Osx simply has no advanages over windows when it comes to "music production". Outside of that, it's a different story (FCP anyone?), but this isn't about that.

Logic is nothing to write home about either, I am in the process of learning pro and it is getting a bit over my head with useless shit that could very well be done in pro tools or something.

And no vst support is fucking lame- vst to au wrappers don't work either.

OH and if where talking about built quailty of apple products; I've had a iBook G4 for almost 4 years- it's been through hell. Aside from a kernal panic back in 04' (which was my fault)- I've had absolutely no problems with it at all. And it definitely doesn't sit on my desk all the time, (actually I don't even have a desk...) I take it almost everywhere I go.

[Double D]

Exactly how much more than the extensive Logic Pro library of effects, Pluggo and the whole range of instruments produced by the likes of NI do you need? As I mentioned before, there's always the option of firing up Windows if you want to run some specific VSTs on a sample.

I wouldn't call features of Logic such as the Environment or it's excellent automation facilities useless, either. It takes a lot of plugging away at, being hideously counterintuitive if you've ever used Cubase or the likes, but once you've unwravelled it things start to come together.

I'd contest the quality of Apple hardware too... in the first year of owning my Powerbook, I had a hard drive replaced, the logic board replaced and a replacement LCD screen denied by Applecare because apparently only the 15" units get the white spot error, on a 12" or 17" white spots from the flawed design of the unit are 'user abuse' or somesuch bullshit.

[Double D]

Windows has a huge audio scene, that means less problems with drivers and whatnot, and more help when a problem arises.

Exactly what 'drivers' are we talking about with OSX? Every piece of music software and hardware I've run on this system has worked from the off, without having to download 'latest drivers' or any of the crap involved with a PC.

[Double D]

I don't know how this got to this but I have to a agree when it comes to producing music WINDOWS<OS X, by a million. And i've been using os x since I was twelve.

You mixed up your < and > symbols, silly.

[onemancult]

i'm so proud of the fact that despite a few of us disagreeing, it hasn't devolved into complete pointlessness.

i think it has a lot to do with Double D's avatar.

[poly800rock]

And i've been using os x since I was twelve.

OH and if where talking about built quailty of apple products; I've had a iBook G4 for almost 4 years- it's been through hell. Aside from a kernal panic back in 04' (which was my fault)- I've had absolutely no problems with it at all. And it definitely doesn't sit on my desk all the time, (actually I don't even have a desk...) I take it almost everywhere I go.

what are you 15 now? OSX isn't that old.

and as far as apple products go, the logic board issues still really get to me. they expect your motherboard to fail.

[polishmike]

iBook G4 came out in late 2003 and OS X in March 2001.

I just tried to count and I had over 20 Macs and had a logic board fail on me once. I also fix them for work since 99 and had only 2 clients with a logic board problem. All of these cases were iBooks G3 and all of them were repaired by Apple for free.

Every computer will break, even a Mac. Some people just get lucky.

[poly800rock]

iBook G4 came out in late 2003 and OS X in March 2001.

I just tried to count and I had over 20 Macs and had a logic board fail on me once. I also fix them for work since 99 and had only 2 clients with a logic board problem. All of these cases were iBooks G3 and all of them were repaired by Apple for free.

Every computer will break, even a Mac. Some people just get lucky.

we might have had this discussion before. it's weird, i used to service macs all the time at my old job and every problem was hardware and never software. I have probably 5 friends with mac's (ibooks) and all their logic boards have been replaced within the 1st year. But there are people like you who never have problems, my physics prof was like that. He said he's been using since the apple IIE days, no problems....

completely agree, every computer is a piece of shit.

[polishmike]

i wish open sourcers would step it up with linux.

I'm not an expert in linux but I have few friends that are very involved in open source community. There are few distros that come with music software pre-installed but I forgot the names. Here is what else they told me after few beers last night.

Good article to start with

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7274

Ardour: http://ardour.org

RoseGarden: http://www.rosegardenmusic.com

(both close to Cubase in terms of features)

LMMS: http://lmms.sourceforge.net/home.php

(close to FruityLoops and the most popular)

here is some stuff on editing

WaveSurfer: http://freshmeat.net/projects/wavesurfer/

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net

Sweep: www.metadecks.org/software/sweep/

Hydrogen: www.hydrogen-music.org/

Jack: http://jackaudio.org/

as will a lot of open source programs, this scene seems to be a lot bigger in europe. I was told that a lot of producers are using this stuff but they didn't mention any names.

[mizanation]

hey polishmike. i read those articles and periodically check up on the linux music scene. a few years ago, i even tried a music distro with a creative audigy audio interface (didn't work out too well).

i'm actually pretty satisfied with digital performer running on mac, so it doesn't bother me too much.

[poly800rock]

ha, i had an audigy interface for my old setup. that thing was junk.

it does strike me as odd that linux isn't more widely used in music production. seeing as computer nerds and music nerds are interchangeable.

[Double D]

it does strike me as odd that linux isn't more widely used in music production. seeing as computer nerds and music nerds are interchangeable.

Really? Half the reason I like Macs is the fact that I don't know my arse from a PCI interface. I can barely upgrade my RAM without serious issue.

[mizanation]

being a super nerd probably means you could write your own linux kernel, but it doesn't mean that you can make good music.

[cuddlysheep]

i agree.

being a super nerd probably means you could write your own linux kernel, but it doesn't mean that you can make good music.

[Double D]

being a super nerd probably means you could write your own linux kernel, but it doesn't mean that you can make good music.

Most serious music nerds from my BA Music class I know generally have to ask people like me how to operate the university Macs.

I would suggest that there's a severe plethora of techie arseholes on the internet who get to grips with the simplicities of 4/4 dance music and some pirated software and suddenly think they're musicians.

[thelaststarfighter]

your suggestion would be too correct

[Tyro1]

computer this, frutiy something that... MacOs18 Xp?

I was playing around on a roland tr606 last night, shit those things are fun... It makes me want to start searching for a tr808 again at a decent price... Last time I was looking I didnt have much luck, but I didnt have much cash either...

Who uses an old roland from time to time? Any tips?

[heBAY]

I'm a bit late on this...but yes...Producer...mainly Hip-Hop but I also do some Big Black'ish drum machine rock shit. Placed a few tracks with signed and unsigned ,but popular, artists...years ago, almost hate them now (the tracks...and the rappers).

Equipment I own...

-2 MPC 2000's...one OG 2000 Studio w/ effects...primarily a "Midi brain" at this point...(had it since '98, 2-3 pads are fucked, replaced floppy drive). The other MPC is a 2000XL that I installed an internal Zip into via a little wire surgery. That has become my favored child as of two years ago (the 2000 was my original baby).

-Ensoniq ASR-10...funny story: I won it off of eBAY a few years ago...brand new. The seller used to work at the Ensoniq factory, swears that it was the 2nd to last one ever built (by that time ASR's had long been discontinued...so I kinda believe him). It replaced a shoddy EPS-16+ that I acquired through a trade with my boy (traded a Fostex digital 8-track for it...). Now acts as a Midi controller for my rack.

-Korg Triton Rack...my only rackmount at the moment...I'm pretty sick of it...only turn it on for a few basslines/synths...maybe a hi-hat or kick. I want a Fantom Rack to replace it.

That's as far as it goes for straight production hardware...as for mixing, I have a Mackie 1402-VLZ Pro board, Aphex 204 "Aural Exciter" (not oral...but still...no homo), Presonus CL44 compressor, and a dbx 386 dual vac tube preamp.

I want an old Emax or maybe a S950...

I hate computers...don't even have Pro Tools or Logic or whatever...I'm still using a pirated version of Cool Edit Pro from my freshman year of college ('99)...and I have a hate complex regarding producers who use Fruity Loops and say asinine shit like "computers are the future"...

Fruity Loops = Gap Jeans

MPC family = God jeans

God help us all.

[thelaststarfighter]

producers who wine about people using Fruity Loops are insecure.

the fact is, is that theres been amazing tracks made in fruity loops before, just as theres been with MPC's, just as theres been plenty of terrible tracks with both.

the producer makes the music, not the software or hardware.

you can argue all day about the 'warmth' of the mpc's processors or whatever, but a computer in a box with pads and a computer in a box with a keyboard can ellicit the same sound with the right knowledge, tools, and execution. the difference is marginal.

believe it or not, computers are the future.

[heBAY]

I don't know about whining...but I reckon you must be a Fruity Loops producer to come out your face and claim such a thing.

Granted...it's never going to be 100% settled...there will always be people who are vintage-minded and swear by the hardware that was used to create the sound for the albums that made them want to create music in the first place...and there will be people who love technology and want to expand in that direction because it makes things simpler and faster.

I just know, for me, nothing works better for making a fuckin' beat than my MPC2000xl (or ideally a 3000) under my fingers. If there were software that sampled, chopped and sequenced, and mixed down with effects via one's thoughts...I'd still take my MPC over it. There's no fun in solely point-and-click'ing (not for me).

In the end...it's okay...us old school hardware producers will see you new school computer heads in the future...we'll still think our way is way superior and warmer and you guys will still be saying "computers are the future" and hug your beloved plug-ins...

...meanwhile dual-tape deck sampling/sequencing (aka the poor man's reel-to-reel splice and tape method) will come back and take over.

Shit, there are highly-respected "producers" out there who swear by live-ware (mics all around the room...recording the song in one live take). Analog is STILL the way to some greats.

[Doublethink]

If anyone in Seattle has interest for analog I am selling a Roland Fantom xa with lots of extras for a reasonable price.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/msg/358694650.html

[onemancult]

I don't know about whining...but I reckon you must be a Fruity Loops producer to come out your face and claim such a thing.

Granted...it's never going to be 100% settled...there will always be people who are vintage-minded and swear by the hardware that was used to create the sound for the albums that made them want to create music in the first place...and there will be people who love technology and want to expand in that direction because it makes things simpler and faster.

I just know, for me, nothing works better for making a fuckin' beat than my MPC2000xl (or ideally a 3000) under my fingers. If there were software that sampled, chopped and sequenced, and mixed down with effects via one's thoughts...I'd still take my MPC over it. There's no fun in solely point-and-click'ing (not for me).

In the end...it's okay...us old school hardware producers will see you new school computer heads in the future...we'll still think our way is way superior and warmer and you guys will still be saying "computers are the future" and hug your beloved plug-ins...

...meanwhile dual-tape deck sampling/sequencing (aka the poor man's reel-to-reel splice and tape method) will come back and take over.

Shit, there are highly-respected "producers" out there who swear by live-ware (mics all around the room...recording the song in one live take). Analog is STILL the way to some greats.

that's all fine and dandy, but get to the point where you explain certifiably why one is better than the other?

it is always analog heads who are ragging on digital heads, whereas on our end, we recognize that both have positives and negatives, and we simply choose to work with one set of pros and cons as opposed to the other. i'd personally love to dedicate my time to spending shit tons of money on good solid hardware, but i can't, and so i do what i can with what i have at my disposal and the power of a computer in front of me.

[keagan]

omc, i've never heard any of your music.

post some shitttttttttttttteeeeee.

[onemancult]

i'll probably relent and post something in the big ol' dance thread- ive only recently gotten back to making tunes after a long dry spell throughout college, so yeah.

maybe soon.

[Mr Fingers]

producers who wine about people using Fruity Loops are insecure.

the fact is, is that theres been amazing tracks made in fruity loops before, just as theres been with MPC's, just as theres been plenty of terrible tracks with both.

I'm not insecure, not a snob about gear, and I'm sure there have been dope tracks made with FL at some point (there's certainly been plenty of garbage done on an MPC, SP1200, 909, etc). I just think it's a shitty, restrictive program, and aside from offering beginners an easy, cheap way to start fucking around with beats, there isn't anything positive about it. The fact that it's relegated to entry-level status (ie: the vast majority of working producers don't use it) says everything about the program.

It's kind of like designers who do everything with Photoshop because it's the easiest thing to find on the net (though obviously PS has it's legitimate use). They may (or may not) produce quality work, but they're constantly faced with the challenge of working around its inherent limitations, and stretching it to do things it was never really capable of or intended to.

[heBAY]

Fam...if you would have read my post...it should be pretty self-explanatory...I already "got to the point" as to why I prefer the one over the other. What you want is more details...

To me, the MPC DOES have a sound and swing to it...besides the physical feel to making the beats (believe it or not...some hardware heads even complain about doing drums on keyboards like the ASR-10 or Korg Triton, cause they don't have "pads"...I don't know about all of that...but I believe it has more to do with the sound of the machine behind the pads). I am not blindly hating on Fruity Loops or any other software...I've close friends who swear by FL, and the rest, to make beats. I hear results from that shit all the time. My engineer LOVES the computer programs with all of the plug-ins and what not...he would "never waste his time fiddling with an MPC wheel when he can flip and chop something on Recycle"...but he also says that there's nothing like the MPC sound and swing.

I have a personal tie with hardware in general...the MPC was the first real sampler I used right after making beats on a shitty Roland JS-30 sampler (no real sequencer), two tape decks, and a Technics 1200 (do the math on that). My boy left his MPC2000 at my crib...the first day I had it, I turned it on and in 30 mins, without a manual, I was almost done with my first trashy beat. It's probably the easiest machine to learn and navigate through. The sequencer is great...and as a whole...the MPC gets iller the deeper you go with it...it's like you learn more about the machine and it grants you with tricks to get crazier tasks done quicker and without bustin a sweat.

To me, hardware DOES have it's own sound...I've had numerous conversations with old school engineer cats and they all say that...as nice and convenient as some of the computer shit is...for production...there's nothing like the sound that which comes out of those machines from Akai, Emu, Korg, Kurzweil, Roland, Alesis, etc. etc. etc. It's the processors...the chips and the wiring...it's not simulated (I know some computer fuck is going to hate that I said that). Sounds crazy.

Right now, I want an old school 12-bit piece to get that warm, crunchy sound. My plug-in loving engineer (no homo?) at first said, "man you could just bounce it into the computer and through a 12-bit simulator plug-in for the mix"...but then he thought about it and realized that, for that authentic 12-bit sound that one gets from a s950 or sp1200...you need to get either one of those machines.

With all of that said...there IS a place for the computer shit...I love analog...but sometimes you need Pro Tools or Logic and some plug-ins for post production effects...it definitely makes for a nice, refined sound (whether you want clean or dirty). But for initial beat production...I swear by hardware with heart.

It's also a collector's thing...appreciation for quality and craftsmanship. I see it like vintage Nike sneakers versus the retro's...which may have some upgrades in terms of comfort and/or technology or new colorways...but have sloppy glue jobs and sacrifice the original idea and creativity for such newfangled ideals (although sometimes the retros are less comfortable). Although I do have some retros...just like I've used the computer for plug-in effects on samples here and there...but shit, that's just cause I can...if software would be gone tomorrow...I'd be just as happy with my hardware since that's what I've been using 99% of the time.

[thelaststarfighter]

It doesn't really matter if I use Fruity Loops or not.

in the end, the hardware vs. software debate is completely subjective.

my point is that denying the fact that computers are the future is just limiting your pallete & range of tools.

if you've never used the Waves SSL plugins, then you really don't realize how close computers are getting to replicating that vintage warmth.

god knows if they're ever be able to ellicit that avalon tube quality (or whathaveyou), but they're edging in.

...omc hit it right on the head

it is always analog heads who are ragging on digital heads, whereas on our end, we recognize that both have positives and negatives, and we simply choose to work with one set of pros and cons as opposed to the other.

[beatzNsneakz]

thelaststarfighter, I agree with you 100 percent, I use fruity loops now and i think Ive made some good stuff. Fruity loops has its limitations but good music can be made wit it

producers who wine about people using Fruity Loops are insecure.

the fact is, is that theres been amazing tracks made in fruity loops before, just as theres been with MPC's, just as theres been plenty of terrible tracks with both.

the producer makes the music, not the software or hardware.

you can argue all day about the 'warmth' of the mpc's processors or whatever, but a computer in a box with pads and a computer in a box with a keyboard can ellicit the same sound with the right knowledge, tools, and execution. the difference is marginal.

believe it or not, computers are the future.