Raf Simons F/W 09.10 Paris

[2000dB]

raf has kinda sucked since a/w 06.

basically... since then it's been getting wacker by the season.

[Guest Phrost]

every single thing from a/w 06 was coppable

exhibit a:

[juliaN.]

this is an interesting direction after everything else he's been doing as of late

not feeling his continuation of puffy arms and some of those weird knit collar experiments, but for the most part this is pretty damn good. Suits with too-long jackets, dead straight torso-to-waist silhouettes, wader trousers over sneakers, he took a very basic template and made it kinda fucked up. Props, this is the first Raf mainline collection I've fucked with in a while.

[Whodinihimself]

A lot of it just looks so stiff.....and not in the good way.....this is a throw-away collection

[kunk75]

i wish this were true. indefensible. i think they actually are assics. does he care about his mainline at all anymore? this is amzing in a bad way. this is everything he was saying about construiction in s/s 09, completely reverse fucked in the ass.

this happened in ss08 too

everyone cried "raf is dead!"

i promise, look at the whole collection, take it in, take a breath, wait a few weeks, look at it again

next season, look at it again and again and it'll warm up to you, his ideas are always a step or two ahead (or behind... to the side?) of other designers, and are concerning the silhouette, probably the most fresh and original out of most runways i've seen this season so far

geller is a comparable idea-man, but geller focuses on little tricks and combinations instead of big-picture stuff

raf's fw collections are never quite as good as his ss imo... colors/patterns and tailoring are missing in a big way this time around, i guess we'll have to wait until the pieces hit the shelves to see what's up

and did anyone else see this? double-breasted single-button suits? i can see this shit catching on at some point

[kunk75]

perhaps we need to look at it more as what it is-a runway show. i have a feeling that there will be more wearable neoprene pieces and the suits are cut fine-maybe never the two shall meet IRL

[inaya]

let it go, man. this sucks and we all know it.

[djrajio]

Man. This sucks.

What the fuck is up with the mid-western corporate law + trainer shit?

Is like some yuppie 9 to 5 middle class lifestyle bullshit.

WACK AS FUCK.

[Servo2000]

Raf is clearly deconstructing the stereotypes of hte uppyiyei mdd cldsla aslmdfso eom asdo fmoan iof FFF FFUU K JJJKKKKKK FFF

[wild_whiskey]

You guys are largely ignoring the impeccable cut and proportions on his suits and trousers. I don't dig the hot pink puffy arms either, but that's probably not what's going to show up in store buys anyway.

[Servo2000]

You guys are largely ignoring the impeccable cut and proportions on his suits and trousers. I don't dig the hot pink puffy arms either, but that's probably not what's going to show up in store buys anyway.

I think jackets like this might be nice in person if you're into this sort of thing -

But it's going to depend a lot on what end of Raf's production spectrum they end up on. From what I've seen the last couple of seasons it seems that a few pieces get "the works" and are nicely constructed with good detailing while others just felt cheap. I was not impressed with the suiting I dealt with last season - but who knows? Maybe I only saw the cheap stuff.

[wild_whiskey]

Well as always it's gotta be seen/felt in person, and I agree that like all designers who are past their prime, quality in Raf's materials have seen a drop off. That said, the scarf-attached ribbed sweater from f/w 08/09 is serious business in terms of construction and I suspect there will be one or two stand-out things that I'll pick up next winter.

[kunk75]

i just posted pretty much same comment on sf.

You guys are largely ignoring the impeccable cut and proportions on his suits and trousers. I don't dig the hot pink puffy arms either, but that's probably not what's going to show up in store buys anyway.

[juliaN.]

if you want a quality product with Raf's name attached to it, buy Jil Sander, it's the only thing left at this point.

Raf Simons is made in China, or Portugal. All hail the new APC, except with less democratic but equally neither here nor there cuts.

[kunk75]

all raf will be made in italy from f/w 09 on.

[juliaN.]

Cool...i am guessing in the same Italian factory where D&G, Prada, DSquared and Armani are made. Damn when did these Italian artisans' Mandarin get so damn good

[kunk75]

you are correct sir

[James Vincent]

NYTimes

Raf Simons remarked that he and his staff see perhaps 250 young men for casting in Antwerp, and of course most of them come in wearing casual sportswear. But, he added, “If there would be one dressed up in a suit, that would be avant-garde.”

But Raf, how is another collection of expensive suits relevant for those young men?

They're for the real Raf Simons customer; salaried and mellowing, and he knows it.

[juliaN.]

maybe his inspiration and creativity are running dry, but damn this guy's personal style is bulletproof.

[evisu 2000]

pretty much makes me want to own a peacoat again.

[juliaN.]

i am really not getting the ongoing backlash for this show based on the few forums I read...

maybe i am seeing something different from others, or vice versa or both, but this shit is really fucking good. It's better than most clothing ideas presented from H&M to Hermes at this point in time, at least.

went back and just saw that sawyer post a few back. Agree with that point about Raf being plain ahead of the curve. I didn't really feel that way about some of his past collections touted as visionary, but I see it with this.

If some old man was wearing this shit like that camel coat (perfect tailoring) outfit with the suit pants and sneakers without this collection was existing, that shit would be praised for style inspiration.

[ProfMonnitoff]

no, everyone agrees that the tailoring on the suits and coats is impeccable. there's no novelty in this though.

[juliaN.]

exactly what kind of novelty are you hoping to catch from a Raf collection? I suppose you could refer to a past collection where he proposed something that you now see as trendsetting, but that is moot. It is an opinion derived from hindsight, whereas this just unfolded before your eyes.

for that matter, all across the board, WHICH show featured something really innovative and "new" from this season at all? Designers were just offering up another interpretation along the thread of the vision they have been going all along. If you're going to crucify one, might as well crucify all.

I think people go into experiencing and interpreting a certain piece of work with too much expectation. Expectation only succeeds in stripping one of the ability to appreciate something on its own, recognize the flaws and merits simultaneously without having to use some background or context as a cushion for rationalizations.

[Guest jhaime9]

Raf, is officially AWOL.

If you find him, please return him to reality.

Does he have too much on his mind? or has he reached an age or been submerged for too long in all that is wrong with the industry? *cough* milan.

I think it's fair to say & everybody has known it for some 4/5 seasons, that Raf Simons mainline has reached a crossroads. Either he walks away from it all, or breaks everything down, relents from selling out & gets back to basics, otherwise it's goodnight Raf. Vendors will only stick by him for so long, before this over-priced crap is only available through Italian suit stores.

If slapping Fuchsia sleeves on a terribly cut suit is 'ahead of the curve' then i'm glad we're in a recession... seriously, whatever graduate intern suggested that should be stoned!!!

I think Raf Simons needs to look in the mirror & ask himself the question, do I want to do this anymore...

[ProfMonnitoff]

exactly what kind of novelty are you hoping to catch from a Raf collection? I suppose you could refer to a past collection where he proposed something that you now see as trendsetting, but that is moot. It is an opinion derived from hindsight, whereas this just unfolded before your eyes.

for that matter, all across the board, WHICH show featured something really innovative and "new" from this season at all? Designers were just offering up another interpretation along the thread of the vision they have been going all along. If you're going to crucify one, might as well crucify all.

I think people go into experiencing and interpreting a certain piece of work with too much expectation. Expectation only succeeds in stripping one of the ability to appreciate something on its own, recognize the flaws and merits simultaneously without having to use some background or context as a cushion for rationalizations.

especialy in 01-03 he was doing stuff nobody else was doing and it was superb. ss07 (the one based on hitchhikers) was novel and superb. there is nothing novel about the suits in this collection, and nothing superb about the other garbage he put out this season.

[juliaN.]

ss07 was an interesting proposal i agree...a bit too out there for me though, i appreciated the freshness of it but it didn't seem innovative in a way that was still readily approachable, which I think most of this is despite some pretty hideous statements (puffy sleeves, awkward knitwear necklines). I just kinda got the sense a lot of the backlash was over the footwear/trouser combo which I don't think warrants such a huge fuss.

as for the 01-03, well I don't think anyone is really designing on that level any more, Raf or otherwise...with each year the window for originality and breakthrough just gets narrower and narrower.

[Trillerblake]

I love this (sweater)

Everything else is garbage

[ledger]

hmm agreed with all the other comments,nothing else to say really.

poor.

[Whodinihimself]

NYTimes

But Raf, how is another collection of expensive suits relevant for those young men?

They're for the real Raf Simons customer; salaried and mellowing, and he knows it.

That's true....Like Raf himself, the original Raf customer is aging...so a lot of the the OG Raf customers will buy into this. Future collections may continue to follow suit for a few years. But I think you'll likely see the old Raf again when he has his mid-life crisis (maybe in 3-4 years or so). Until then, all you kids still have his diffusion line to fall back on...even though it's generally sucks as it stands now.

[juliaN.]

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that as a designer ages with his original/core audience his work follows along on a linear path of upwards aging.

YY has gotten older and some seasons reflect a certain quietness that comes with age, but as seen in some parts of his s/s 09, or even pretty much all of s/s 08, he can still design for a wider range of wearers, sometimes even more youth oriented.

Karl Lagerfeld pretty much getting younger and hipper as he is getting older. Same with Rei Kawakubo, whose designs are becoming more bubbly and flippant with age and expansion of her CdG empire.

I'd chalk it up to mid life crisis. Wait til Raf breaks through the 40s and he will be back swinging in full force with some cybertech grandpa steez in 2019, if the world is still around by then.