The economy: How bad is it now? How bad will it get?

[JackPhotography]

I don't know anything about economics, so I'm asking all you superfuture economists to school me on what the fuck is really going on and how bad things really are. I just saw this clip of noam chomsky saying things are going down the shitter real fast and something about a medicare crisis that is going to dwarf this current financial crisis. Should I stock up on top ramen er what?

[juliaN.]

don't listen to the analysts they are party poopers

it'll be a better day before you know it

in the mean time go bump some Pac

"you ain't never had a friend like me...."

[ProfMonnitoff]

noam chomsky has never been right about anything except linguistics

[JackPhotography]

jawns or ramen

jawns or ramen

jawns or ramen

[juliaN.]

ramen of course

you gotta eat

you can't get your vitamins and essential nutrients from jawns. well i suppose you can kill two birds with one stone and go about acquiring said jawns in a certain manner and get your fill, but it's up to you if you are willing to cross that line.

[artificialsky]

jawns were down 20% last year.

[ProfMonnitoff]

fuck talkin bout the recession, that shit's depressin

[Francis Xavier]

It all depends on whether Obama's "radical" domestic spending plan passes. If it does, it might help us out. It it flops, we're in deep shit...

But there are still issues he's not willing to address because he's their man. Watching him tapdance with a top hat and cane at AIPAC and completely avoid the issues of the Federal Reserve system give me little hope for his plan.

[jack napier]

noam chomsky has never been right about anything except linguistics

I really hope this is a (10).

Noam Chomsky sucks, and his linguistics also suck.

[ProfMonnitoff]

dunno, i thought he actually had some authority in the field?

either way chomsky doesn't know shit about politics and economics

[Francis Xavier]

I don't about all that. Chomsky is one of the most, if not the most important figure in linguistics alive today.

His actions and political ideologies are exercised in a very honest and noble way for a self-identified Jew working within the realm of global political analysis. He's defended the freedom of speech of historical revisionists even on issues like the holocaust (revisionists are denied freedom of speech, even in this country. They've been extradited illegally many times and thrown in dungeons in other countries for years before they even see a trial). For right now, I admire his courage and ability to see gray matter and live up to his ideals, even if we don't agree on everything. I used to dislike him, and I suggest you read more into him.

[Quinnskimo]

one thing i did like hearing regarding this whole bailout #whatever is Obama saying something along the lines of, "you don't like my plan? show me something better. i don't care how it gets done so long as what we go with works." that, at least gives me a little hope. but only a little

waiting on this big thing that's supposed to happen after he takes office... china gonna stop buying out t-bills?

[ProfMonnitoff]

yeah im fond of his activism too but nonetheless his political ideals are completely loony

[Francis Xavier]

one thing i did like hearing regarding this whole bailout #whatever is Obama saying something along the lines of, "you don't like my plan? show me something better. i don't care how it gets done so long as what we go with works." that, at least gives me a little hope. but only a little

waiting on this big thing that's supposed to happen after he takes office... china gonna stop buying out t-bills?

Fuck China.

[ProfMonnitoff]

one thing i did like hearing regarding this whole bailout #whatever is Obama saying something along the lines of, "you don't like my plan? show me something better. i don't care how it gets done so long as what we go with works." that, at least gives me a little hope. but only a little

waiting on this big thing that's supposed to happen after he takes office... china gonna stop buying out t-bills?

this is a bit problematic though because nobody actually knows that the precise details of obamas plan are (yet?).

i think he's the best man for the job and has a great team working for him but i'm still quite worried.

[billy.]

ramen of course

you gotta eat

you can't get your vitamins and essential nutrients from jawns. well i suppose you can kill two birds with one stone and go about acquiring said jawns in a certain manner and get your fill, but it's up to you if you are willing to cross that line.

the only thing i feel qualified enough to speak on in this thread is:

you cannot get your vitamins and essential nutrients from ramen.

i tried.

[Francis Xavier]

^^

Let the truth be known. (I second that)

[jack napier]

I suggest you read more into him.

Oh, I have.

Despite his activism (which is fine, but often misinformed), I still very much dislike his academic views - same thing for most public intellectuals. He's also a terrible representative of Marxism.

Either way, back to the topic at hand, of which I know little about, but hope will pass soon. I don't have a source of income right now anyways... but can't kop due to exchange rates even if I wanted to. Hopefully the job market won't be too fucked come summer.

[kunk75]

it's bad. everyone i talk to, their buisness is down.

[the_state]

Oh, I have.

Despite his activism (which is fine, but often misinformed), I still very much dislike his academic views - same thing for most public intellectuals. He's also a terrible representative of Marxism.

Either way, back to the topic at hand, of which I know little about, but hope will pass soon. I don't have a source of income right now anyways... but can't kop due to exchange rates even if I wanted to. Hopefully the job market won't be too fucked come summer.

2.3 million people lost their jobs this year. the job market will be fucked until Q2 2011.

[ProfMonnitoff]

at that point in time, sarah palin will have won the nomination of the GOP and get 70% in the polls. in 2012, the world ends.

[Thorns]

It all depends on whether Obama's "radical" domestic spending plan passes. If it does, it might help us out. It it flops, we're in deep shit...

Nah. I can disprove long-term viability of Keynesian money flood econ with a black board, 15 minutes, and a class of college freshmen. Absolute bullshit.

waiting on this big thing that's supposed to happen after he takes office... china gonna stop buying out t-bills?

No, but they're gonna have to continue moving their foreign reserve out of dollars. They can't tank us completely yet without fucking themselves in the process.

this is a bit problematic though because nobody actually knows that the precise details of obamas plan are (yet?).

i think he's the best man for the job and has a great team working for him but i'm still quite worried.

Great team? Seriously? The "new deal" to combat the depression didn't work last time and it won't work this time. What was the old adage, "Whats the definition of idiocy... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

[Thorns]

Oh for those interested.... one of my favorite econ blogs. Brad Setser is the man: http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/

[Thorns]

Choosing a 'less of two evils' approach to economics is tantamount to subsidizing an inefficiency.

(Having said that I do recognize the need for certain infrastructure investment, but i don't necessarily support a country-wide 'big dig' like money dump)

[jayrock]

i can't argue there.

[Francis Xavier]

marxism cannot be shown to be falsifiable, therefore it is a bunk ideology. the entire mantra is nothing more than "the ends justify the means," the ends being world domination by the "workers" or whatever the crap. completely juvenile philosophy if you ask me.

chomsky an old fag with whack politics, as already stated

i didn't vote, but i also agree that obama is the best man for the job. his youth and pragmatism make me optimistic about the future.

get out of debt so you can make some arab money. cash is king.

I agree that Marxism is a complete joke, though I don't know if you really know why in great detail.

Also, Chomsky is not a marxist.

Marxism, Communism, if you understand their origins and the scheme that lies at the core of their motives (and yes, it is a scheme), you would find that communism and the bolshevik revolution were backed by a branch of the Rothschild banking family called Kuhn Loeb. In short, they used communism to take down the aristocratic power center of Russia. And if you know anything about the Bolsheviks, they were almost all linked personally, as were the central banking families that financed them (Reformed Zionism/Herzl). The reason I link them to jews is not to blame jewery, but rather to point out that these banking families were the driving force behind financing Zionist interests and establishing the state of Israel. These problems that we see today in the middle east are probably making a lot of money for a specific business sector. Obviously. The Bolsheviks, could never have won that war without capitalist interests. This may all sound contradictory and and far-fetched. That's because it is. Communism doesn't work for a reason, because it was never meant to function the way that it promises its people. The exception would be cuba because cuba is sort of like post-war western germany. Its financed from the outside so that it can prove the merits of said system. This goes against the very core ideologies of communism and marxism and it should come as no surprise that the Soviet side of the Cold War was financed by our central banks as well. Why? Because an arms race, and war, generates more wealth than anything else for certain areas of the central banking system. Communism is a totalitarian front. It, in itself, is a BANKING system with a full-proof insurance policy that can be summed up like this:

One of the most famous american bankers of all time once said something along the lines of, "Communism is a Bankers favorite system of government because communists collect their debts" [by force]

Now, you're paranoid that Obama is a marxist maybe? A communist? Or maybe that Chomsky is?

Well, it wasn't a free market and ideal capitalism that got us into this mess. It was corporativism. We have a government that works along side corporations for the benefit of corporations. This sounds fascist, and it is to some extent, but remember that with a twist of words it sounds communist too. Bewildering, isn't it?

(somebody is just foaming at the mouth to rip this post to shreads)

[Thorns]

When the labor theory of value was debunked, so died the viability of communism.

[jayrock]

i never said chomsky was a marxist. i said marxism is whack, then i said chomsky's political views are also whack.

of course communism was financed by capitalists.

no, i don't think obama is a marxist. he's always seemed like a good person to me, i just happen to differ on a few of his political views. he's probably too smart for marxism anyway.

completely agree. fannie and freddie have no place in a free market. when government insures home ownership and places it on a pedestal, it's bound to eventually topple. although i'm also not against some regulations in the financial markets to prevent all the nonsense that arose from re-selling bad debt, etc.

[Francis Xavier]

I agree for the most part. The problem is that a free market's success depends on the integrity of its most powerful members. That integrity must be supercharged with ethics and compassion.

That's never going to happen.

A lasting, functional, fair free market can only work if the nature of man is devoid of selfishness.

A functional, fair, honest system of absolute socialism can only work if man is devoid of selfishness.

As Edward O Wilson (who i've mentioned before) once said... "Communism: Great Idea, wrong species"

He studies social insects, ants mostly. I love ants. Ants are communists. Bees too. They don't choose kin, we do. We can't be communists. It's silly to be so radical about it.

... heh. my neck.

[Thorns]

A lasting, functional, fair free market can only work if the nature of man is devoid of selfishness.

I have never understood the desire for social equity... it seems so... anti-growth to me.