selvedge hype......

[baldy]

Quote:

Quote:

i don't understand why they almost always have the selvedge line on raw denim and not washed/distressed denim. doesn't the washed/distressed denim come from the same raw denim in the first place?

--- Original message by baldy on Nov 20, 2005 09:18 PM

there are a lot of washed selvage denim.

--- Original message by adsurgo on Nov 20, 2005 09:51 PM

adsurgo, take nudie for example, they do not use selvedge denim for their washed jeans but do so with their raw jeans. but on their site it seems that they use the same raw jeans and hand distress them for their washed jeans. what's up with that?

im just really curious about this because people refer to selvedge denim as raw just about all the time which then points to the fact that washed denim is usually not selvedge, therefore, possibly made with diff. denim?

Edited by baldy on Nov 21, 2005 at 09:20 PM

[Guest]

rigga : "selvedge denim is just the edge of the denim. what makes some denim so expensive is that they use older looms that create slubiness and a narrower width of denim, allowing leg of jeans to be made from the width of the jean, creating a shit ton of wasted denim, (plus cotton type, plus dying methods etc.)

Actually there's not a lot of wasted denim when cutting 501-style jeans from shuttle-loom 'selvedge' denim. There's a symbiotic relationship between the narrow width of a shuttle loom denim and the fabric consumption needed to make straight leg, 5 pocket jeans.

The expense comes from a couple of other factors (cotton, dyeing & finishing, quantity, geographical location etc. aside). Shuttle looms produce denim at a much slower rate than modern wide-width looms (which are around 3 times faster). The consumption per yard of fabric is far higher using a narrow-width denim. Obviously if you use a denim that is double the width of a 'selvedge' denim, you'll be able to cut twice as many pattern pieces per yard.

Obviously, 'Selvedge' denim is also limited when producing items other than straight-leg jeans (eg flared skirts, dresses, jackets etc).

[damnIam]

All denim is mass produced, it ain't silk, but as I said some is much better than others while some is crap. Crap is for the masses, the good stuff is for more refined tastes. You pay for the good stuff and the crap is easily recongized. My point is...excellent quality selvage denim will probably not be all over the place anytime soon. The crap might be, but I will know the difference and it will not diminish my desire to wear the good stuff.

I don't care for super tight styles, with crazy pocket stitching and rainbow selvage and all that other nonsense. If there is a beginning of the end it will start with that crap!!!

I like the original, not because I'm an old fart, just because I think it looks the best and is still the most relevant and the least errrr...fruity!

[rigga]

adsurgo: my reply was a reply in general, spurned on the discussion at hand. the whole post was just something that i had been thinking of, and the based on the talk about h&m et. al. selvedge denim just illustrated the point that selvedge does not equal to quality; etc.

baldy: it could be different denim, or it could even come from the same loom, be inside denim (not from the edge) and then washed, distressed etc. as discussed on this thread, the appeal of raw denim is that you get to make it what it is through your wear (wash, shrink, distress etc.). although, i do not know about nudies and what denim they used for their washed or raw jeans, it is entirely possible that it is the same denim from the same loom, just cut from a different part of the fabric sheet itself.

45 rpm for example does not have a raw denim, but instead has a one wash selvedge as this leaves the color in, but gives a truer sense of the fit, b/c they have been washed, and have shrunk to an extent (maybe not fully but... .blah blah).

so if x then y, and if y then z, doesn't always hold true. hope that helps.

[adsurgo]

i think the reason alot of the selvage jeans are raw is because of reproductions and what not. and wanting to be like how other companies were back in the day.

[ringring]

"selvedge denim is just the edge of the denim. what makes some denim so expensive is that they use older looms that create slubiness and a narrower width of denim, allowing leg of jeans to be made from the width of the jean, creating a shit ton of wasted denim, (plus cotton type, plus dying methods etc.) "

Actually the relationship between narrow-width selvedge denim and the consumption of a pair of straight leg five-pocket jeans is symbiotic - the pattern pieces slot nicely into the fabric width. There's not much wastage at all.

The inherent increase in cost over a wide-width denim is in the fabric consumption and weaving speed. (taking away possible differences in cotton, dye, quantity, geographical location etc)