great bands that went sour; better to burn out than to fade away

[haptronic]

butthole surfers, everything up until and including locust abortion technician, is wow.

while there are hints of greatness after this moment, the downward slide went all the way to pepper and beyond.

  Double D said:

And Justice For All is a bloody good album in need of a serious remastering session... a victim of their own dickheadery.

and justice for all to my ears sounds incredible. that guitar doesn't even sound like a guitar anymore but like two pieces of polystyrene rubbing against each other.

i spent years of my life trying to make a guitar sound like this so dry and yet resonant.

everything after that is not worth a cent

[the_state]

  Two-Headed Boy said:

Liz Phaire- evertthing post- exile in guyville sucked.

yeah you're right... b/c pitchfork said so!!!! yayyyyyy!!!!! way to spell cuntface

[Mr Fingers]

  heBAY said:

This will always result in people arguing about personal preference...but I'll go on record to say Black Flag - post-My War...although I blame it more on the shitty new age (80's) engineer work, rather than musical direction (at least they didn't go the Crossover route like damn near every other first wave hardcore band)...it's like they just discovered the magic of reverb/echo/delay...and never stopped running with it. I do like Slip It In though.

Most people I know feel this way about both My War and Slip It In. I definitely do.

  Bona Drag said:

:confused: :confused: :confused:

fear of a black planet was arguably better

Yup. Fear Of A Black Planet was fire when it came out, still is today. In my top ten of all time. The density of sound and the relentless pace (no silence between songs) make it sound so pissed, and somehow it was more varied but still more focused than Nation Of Millions. Love that album.

[snozepp147]

  dunkin deeznuts said:

weezer - green album........

i was just coming in here to say the same exact thing

  landho said:

I've mediated on this a great deal. I think Pinkerton is one of the best pop albums of the 90s. Unfortunately, it was a critical and commercial failure when it was released--it was voted the second-worst album of 1996 by a readers' poll in Rolling Stone. Rivers Cuomo is a particularly sensitive soul, and essentially he shut himself from the outside world for a few years. In 2000, he released Weezer (Green). It was a good album, but it lacked the quirkiness and the heartfelt earnestness that made the first two albums so good. What happened was that Cuomo, in order to make his work impervious to criticism and also to detach himself from his work, began writing catchy, impersonal songs that were fun to listen to but that were ultimately depthless. He said in an interview that he discovered the formula for the perfect pop song and that he composed all his songs according to this formula. The results are Weezer (Green) and Maladroit--two fine albums that were ultimately good but not great. (Personally, whenever I listen to either, I just want to listen to Weezer (Blue) and Pinkerton.) At this time, Pinkerton began receiving tons of critical acclaim after the fact, with Weezer being hailed as arguably the best of the post-Nirvana American bands. But since Cuomo buried whatever it was that compelled him to write Weezer (Blue) and Pinkerton, it was gone forever. He tried to recapture it by hiring Rick Rubin as a producer, and the result was the godawful Make Believe, with its insincere honesty and its overwrought attempts at earnestness. Worst of all, the music wasn't even good. Cuomo has seemed to accept who he is now--an aging, literate, and sensitive hipster who's still capable of churning out good pop songs--but it's a goddamn shame that whatever he had in 1996 was gone forever, like ethanol exposed to air, by 2000.

i'm a huge weezer fan, and i still support them 100% with whatever rivers and the gang does. but i totally agree that a part of weezer died after Pinkerton. the dynamic of Blue and Pinkerton set up so much potential for weezer to be a great band.. and yes, Green and Maladroit were fine, but nothing special. Make Believe was just crap with the exception of a few songs (i can't believe such a shitty song as Beverly Hills was made by the same band from whom the first two albums came from).

you didn't mention their new self-titled (Red Album) that came out about a month ago. have you not heard it? i was super excited when i heard that rivers was going for a more experimental project on return from the band's 2 year hiatus. well, it's not bad.. some songs (mainly some of the bonus tracks like Miss Sweeney) are the best stuff since Pinkerton, but some are just try-too-hard radio bullshit a la Beverly Hills. I still love the band, but i'm starting to doubt that rivers has the desire/ability to produce something as good as Blue and Pinkerton.

  dunkin deeznuts said:

I did liek Return of the Rentals.........

Return of the Rentals is really good, i saw matt sharp and the rentals and it was a cool show.

[landho]

  snozepp147 said:

u didn't mention their new self-titled (Red Album) that came out about a month ago. have you not heard it? i was super excited when i heard that rivers was going for a more experimental project on return from the band's 2 year hiatus. well, it's not bad.. some songs (mainly some of the bonus tracks like Miss Sweeney) are the best stuff since Pinkerton, but some are just try-too-hard radio bullshit a la Beverly Hills. I still love the band, but i'm starting to doubt that rivers has the desire/ability to produce something as good as Blue and Pinkerton.

Oh, I forgot to mention it by name; the last couple of lines of my post were about Weezer (Red). I think Cuomo realizes that he'll never capture whatever it is that he had around Weezer (Blue) and Pinkerton, but he's come to terms with that. It's a welcome change from Make Believe, when he was trying to making a second Pinkerton. So Weezer (Red) is filled with catchy songs that are a little on the sentimental side, but I'm OK with that. And the album strangely grows on you: I was at a bookstore and "Pork and Beans" came on, and I liked the way it sounded over the PA. "Heart Songs" sounded really corny to me the first time I heard it; it still does, but it I like it any way.

[Mr Fingers]

some bands that went to shit, hard:

Red Cross – first EP on Posh Boy is killer, then they turned into a boring alt-rock band..

Public Image Ltd – first two albums are incredible, but somewhere along the way they turned into the PIL that most people are familiar with

Bad Brains

Goo Goo Dolls – went from aping the Replacements to making mad corny songs for the dramatic moments in bad tv shows

[jyoni]

Ride

10ch

[jyoni]

Actually I'll take that back. Too much of a flash-in-the-pan. The only work of theirs that really qualifies would be the Creation release of Nowhere...8 tracks, the whole record ending with "Vapour Trail".

[↓ Is The New ↑]

nirvana.

Jk, Cobain Fo Lyfe.

[onemancult]

  jyoni said:

Actually I'll take that back. Too much of a flash-in-the-pan. The only work of theirs that really qualifies would be the Creation release of Nowhere...8 tracks, the whole record ending with "Vapour Trail".

and all the EPs. all the EPs are good.

[jyoni]

  onemancult said:

and all the EPs. all the EPs are good.

yeah.....

I remember Today Forever being my favorite (Nowhere era, go figure). All those songs were really great. And the shark...god I would still love to have a huge graphic of that on the wall.

[the Repeater]

Black Sabbath - post Vol. IV

New Order - post "Substance I & II"

Knut - post EP's

Isis - last album and remixes not good...

Today Is The Day - post "Sadness" double album

Replacements - post sobriety...

Thin Lizzy - post 70's

[Two-Headed Boy]

  the_state said:

yeah you're right... b/c pitchfork said so!!!! yayyyyyy!!!!! way to spell cuntface

shit, I will never live that down now..

[wrong_move]

Wilco

Hot Cross

Prefuse 73 probably

Weird War (compared to other Svenonius bands, overall they are/were? pretty disappointing)

[MrBurns]

The Stone Roses, with the Second Coming.

[heBAY]

  Mr Fingers said:

Most people I know feel this way about both My War and Slip It In. I definitely do.

Yup. Fear Of A Black Planet was fire when it came out, still is today. In my top ten of all time. The density of sound and the relentless pace (no silence between songs) make it sound so pissed, and somehow it was more varied but still more focused than Nation Of Millions. Love that album.

Not sure if you're agreeing with me that My War and Slip It In are exceptions to the shitty "magical engineer" work of the other albums...or if you are lumping them into the pile. I'm assuming you didn't mean the latter.

As for PE...yeah I wrote a quoted reply to Deeznuts disagreeing about most of the albums he listed...but eh who am I to argue and force my opinion on him. I basically agree that the first 4 PE albums (Yo! Bumrush... to '91 Apocalypse) ARE essential and deemed classics in my book.

Another one...

Beastie Boys - Very hard to say...been around for dumb long and took a while to show the negative effects of age to me. In my eyes, they lyrically peaked at Paul's Boutique...but Check Your Head and Ill Communication were great entries into their newer direction with the live instruments...shit, Hello Nasty was a damned good come back and still pushed the musical envelope for them...so I think I'll draw the line at Hello Nasty...even though I listen to all of the albums up to Ill Communication way more.

For the person who mentioned Bad Brains...when do you think they started losing steam? After I Against I? Thought so (though the Quickness is still fresh to me).

[heBAY]

Ah.

Nas - after It Was Written

Mobb Deep - after Murda Muzik (or Prodigy's HNIC to be exact)

[Mr Fingers]

  the Repeater said:

New Order - post "Substance I & II"

Huh? Substance is a singles collection, and what the hell is "Substance II"? Are you thinking of Joy Division?

  heBAY said:

Not sure if you're agreeing with me that My War and Slip It In are exceptions to the shitty "magical engineer" work of the other albums...or if you are lumping them into the pile. I'm assuming you didn't mean the latter.

Yeah, I was agreeing, that My War kinda blows because of the recording, but that Slip It In is also a great album. Most people I know feel that way too.

[jyoni]

iirc New Order's Substance differed greatly in its formats. Cassette and vinyl offered only a portion of what was on the CD. Maybe this was what he meant?

[sybaritical]

Everything Faith No more post Angel Dust was a travesty.

[jeepster]

^Everything Mike Patton does is shit by me.

  Meat Grinder said:

Test Icicles ...... (8)?

lulz

what a great concept but the delivery... so so bad. Boa v. Python was a fun record, but the album was just unlistenable.

Tokyo Police Club before they released their album were alright, but as soon as they released an LP, just got real uninteresting and turned into the Canadian non-diversity influence Bloc Party.

[rhizome]

Agree with I Against I being Bad Brains last great album, same with And Justice being Metallica's last. They basically jumped the shark with their self-titled album.

Some more:

D.A.F. - Gold und Liebe

Gang of Four - Solid Gold

Wire - 154

The Verve - A Storm In Heaven

Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain

Ministry - The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste

[Mr Fingers]

  Clopek said:

Also, I know it's been mentioned, but you could write books about how hard metallica fell off. They are the definition of a band fading away.

Funny, cause just last night I was reading the new Rolling Stone while waiting for my girl, and there was an article about how Rick Rubin is producing their next album, and it's supposed to be a return to the Master Of Puppets era. He told them to imagine it was 1986 and they had no back catalog to define them, so 'what would they sound like?' All I could think was how that was the totally obvious road to redemption for them, but that it's a totally pathetic and cynical gesture at this point. Fuck them dudes.

[magicy]

Gang Green. Though they only really had that one song...

[the_state]

  rhizome said:

Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain

chill. wowee zowee is fucking awesome. some of their best songs are on that album.

[alexryb]

Anything on Saddle Creek.

  jeepster said:

lulz

what a great concept but the delivery... so so bad. Boa v. Python was a fun record, but the album was just unlistenable.

You're kidding, right?

[headtowall]

Man, I like Black Flag My War and after, Bad Brains Quickness (A LOT), Ride through 94, and post-Storm Verve.

Agree about Beastie Boys staying good through Hello Nasty, though. Never listened to anything after that one.

[eirikt]

..and you will know us by the trail of dead. Everything they have ever done since Sourcetags and Codes has sucked.

[premiumsqueezed]

  a2b489 said:

Anything on Saddle Creek.

Agreed.

(10char)

[heBAY]

  Mr Fingers said:

Yeah, I was agreeing, that My War kinda blows because of the recording, but that Slip It In is also a great album. Most people I know feel that way too.

  headtowall said:

Man, I like Black Flag My War and after, Bad Brains Quickness (A LOT), Ride through 94, and post-Storm Verve.

Agree about Beastie Boys staying good through Hello Nasty, though. Never listened to anything after that one.

Uh...I was saying that I LOVE My War...and thoroughly believe the Slip It In was a stand out recording in the midst of the post-My War stuff. But yeah, My War was a great album both musically and engineer-wise. It sounds dirty and ugly. Me like dirty and ugly

And I too like The Quickness...just never got into it as much as I Against I. Maybe one day that'll change (thanks to this topic).

Thanks topic!