supermeatheads

[eversuns]

rip IA

Okay, so just looking at it I have made these changes, does this look okay?

Monday

Box squat 5 x 5

Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10

Bent Row 4 x 6

Barbell Curl 3 x 8

Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday

Bench Press 3x5

Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8

OHP 3 x 8

Skull Crushers 3 x 10

Ab work 3 x 10

Friday

Box Squat 5x5

Deadlift 2-3 x 5

Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6

Barbell 3 x 8

Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday

Incline bench press 3x5

Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8

OHP 3 x 8

Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10

Ab work 3 x 10

[Leeacto]

Looks good at first glance, but here are a couple changes I'd make

I'd up the reps and/or sets for the ab work. I don't think you'll feel it enough at 3 x 10.

Do pullups (and variations of it) as opposed to Lat pulldowns

I think Deadlift is a really important exercise. Even moreso than squat. If you're going to do both on Friday workout, I'd emphasize the DLs and then you can just focus on form w/ the box squats after.

[greasypeanut]

i wrote this long thing, but im new to this thread. what are ur goals eversun?

have u tried stronglifts and actually complete it for however long its spose to be done for?

[dunkin deeznuts]

whoa Wesley died? wtf? and liek 3 months again....

RIP

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

Yeah man I posted about it when it occurred

[eversuns]

i wrote this long thing, but im new to this thread. what are ur goals eversun?

have u tried stronglifts and actually complete it for however long its spose to be done for?

Goals at the moment are strength, not too fussed about looks atm.

Been doing stronglifts for about a year (unfortunately my progress got stopped mid year when I fell ill for 3 months)

[mrchariybrown]

Looks good at first glance, but here are a couple changes I'd make

I'd up the reps and/or sets for the ab work. I don't think you'll feel it enough at 3 x 10.

Do pullups (and variations of it) as opposed to Lat pulldowns

I think Deadlift is a really important exercise. Even moreso than squat. If you're going to do both on Friday workout, I'd emphasize the DLs and then you can just focus on form w/ the box squats after.

he'll feel it at 3 x 10 if he's going heavy. he may choose to go lighter and do more reps though. doesn't really matter too much. it's just accessory work to compliment to real core workouts (squats and deadlifts).

while I disagree that deadlifts are more important than squats (I think they're equally important), I do agree than you should keep the deadlifts as the star in the 3rd workout and just do the leg presses as laid out. OR you can run a few cycles with the squat or variation in, and then switch over to a deadlift or variation for a few cycles. just don't ignore one or the other.

[greasypeanut]

if ur just goin for strength, i dont see why youre doing exercises in the 10 rep range.

you said ur progress with sl stopped midyear...but how is it now that uve recovered? are u still making gains? if so...why stop?

all these extra things that you in the program you wrote (skull crushers, curls, ghrs) those are all assistance exercises in intermediate programs. and calf raises are purely a look thing. that time is better spent doing more squats or deadlifts or even some hiit/cardio work.

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

if ur just goin for strength, i dont see why youre doing exercises in the 10 rep range.

you said ur progress with sl stopped midyear...but how is it now that uve recovered? are u still making gains? if so...why stop?

all these extra things that you in the program you wrote (skull crushers, curls, ghrs) those are all assistance exercises in intermediate programs. and calf raises are purely a look thing. that time is better spent doing more squats or deadlifts or even some hiit/cardio work.

Which routine is the best for strength?

[mrchariybrown]

if ur just goin for strength, i dont see why youre doing exercises in the 10 rep range.

there's no preset rep range for strength or otherwise.

it's all about what works for you.

[greasypeanut]

there's no preset rep range for strength or otherwise.

it's all about what works for you.

true, but what works for most people is gonna be in the 4-6 range. theres a reason why all the best (imo) strength programs, starting strength, strong lifts, bill starr, mad cow, texas method are all based on a 5 rep set. other than strong lifts, the other programs have been developed iirc from accomplished and respected power lifters.

Which routine is the best for strength?

if you are beginning id suggest either starting strength or strong lifts.

that all being said, im somewhat of a hypocrite because i've never done any of these programs. i do a push/pull program, i have way too much time on my hands and go to the gym one more day a week than these programs ask.

edit: and id say a good indicator if ur a beginner or not is if u can squat 1.5x your body weight for your normal amount of sets and reps. cuz squats should be the #1 exercise in your whole program.

[mrchariybrown]

true, but what works for most people is gonna be in the 4-6 range. theres a reason why all the best (imo) strength programs, starting strength, strong lifts, bill starr, mad cow, texas method are all based on a 5 rep set. other than strong lifts, the other programs have been developed iirc from accomplished and respected power lifters.

who are you referring to as "most people"? that's way too broad of a statement to make.

I'm not saying that the 5 rep range isn't a good thing or a bad thing. I do a lot of things in the 5 rep range (also in the 10 and 20).

but something like strong lifts and mad cow is VERY different from strong lifts and mad cow. I feel the latter two, most intermediate and advanced trainees that train with high intensity get overtrained too quickly. same goes for beginners with some training under their belt.

I would also like to say that this does not mean I think stronglifts or madcow is shit. I don't think that at all. I think some people can make very good gains off of it. but if you want to go ahead and generalize, "most people" will make better progress on something with less frequency and volume on major compound lifts.

you say things like the "4-6 range" like it's gold but it really depends on the context and person.

[mrchariybrown]

now, if you say that you have the lifts and/or physique to back up your statements, then please keep throwing out advice as I'm always happy to learn more from guys that are more advanced than I am.

[greasypeanut]

but something like strong lifts and mad cow is VERY different from strong lifts and mad cow. i dont understand this I feel the latter two, most intermediate and advanced trainees that train with high intensity get overtrained too quickly. same goes for beginners with some training under their belt.

i agree that most int and adv overtrain but they probably dont follow a good program. have u looked at madcow or the texas method? they only go heavy like once a week, its actually easier than ss or sl. most of the week for the int programs are all on assistance exercises.

I would also like to say that this does not mean I think stronglifts or madcow is shit. I don't think that at all. I think some people can make very good gains off of it. but if you want to go ahead and generalize, "most people" will make better progress on something with less frequency and volume on major compound lifts.

you say things like the "4-6 range" like it's gold but it really depends on the context and person.

now, if you say that you have the lifts and/or physique to back up your statements, then please keep throwing out advice as I'm always happy to learn more from guys that are more advanced than I am.

whether or not i have the physique or lifts to back it up. none of what i said are my own ideas. i am just regurgitating what bill starr and mark rippetoe, some of the most respected people in the powerlifting world, have said. people asked about a good strength program, who better to get a strength program then from an accomplished powerlifter (rippetoe and starr) http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program the starting strength program if neone was curious.

and http://stronglifts.com/why-5x5-is-the-most-powerful-training-method/ this is not written by the owner of stronglifts but rather glenn pendlay, the us olympic weightlifting coach.

edit: and when i say most people, i mean most beginners, sorry.

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

Well what are your lifts like? 5rm numbers?

[mrchariybrown]

edit: and when i say most people, i mean most beginners, sorry.

see, now that you've thrown that in, I don't disagree with your above statements.

it was only when you said "most people" (beginners, intermediates, and advanced), that I really disagreed with you.

[greasypeanut]

Well what are your lifts like? 5rm numbers?

gg. well my bench is at 200 (5x5), ive deloaded and changed my program on my squats. but today i did squats (3x5) for 235. a page or two has a video of me doing it for 250 and i did that (5x5) 2 or 3 months ago, well not in the video. i stopped doing conventional deads and am learning sumo dead lifts and thats currently at 205 (3x5). my ohp is at 125 (5x5), my bent over row is at 165 (5x5) and i do legit pullups with 35lbs extra (5x5) i weigh 170lbs at 5'8".

its not nething special, but i know for damn sure its better than the average gym-goer (minus all those football players who go to my gym lol)

[NatseOklim]

I do a 2 day stronglifts split, couldn't train friday due to my cold, can't train today due to a blizzard. If I can only find one day this week to train, can I just wack all the lifts together into one day? My gut says yes.

squats, bench, overhead press, rows, deadlifts, pulldowns.

[Leeacto]

gg. well my bench is at 200 (5x5), ive deloaded and changed my program on my squats. but today i did squats (3x5) for 235. a page or two has a video of me doing it for 250 and i did that (5x5) 2 or 3 months ago, well not in the video. i stopped doing conventional deads and am learning sumo dead lifts and thats currently at 205 (3x5). my ohp is at 125 (5x5), my bent over row is at 165 (5x5) and i do legit pullups with 35lbs extra (5x5) i weigh 170lbs at 5'8".

its not nething special, but i know for damn sure its better than the average gym-goer (minus all those football players who go to my gym lol)

No offense to you, but outside of the pullups, those aren't "better than average" numbers for someone's who's 170lbs. How old are you? If you're under 18, then maybe that's a good start, but someone looking to get seriously strong at your height/weight should shoot for a 5x5 of bench around 225, Squat for 5s at 275, OHP seated about 135+.

To build my maxes, when I was younger in college, I would do 10 week programs. 3x10 for the powerlifting moves in week ten, then 3 x 9, 8, etc down to 5. Then 2 sets of 4 down to 1. I'd base it on %s. All auxiliary lifts were 8s, and then 6s by the 7th week.

If you can tell, I didn't hit the reps super hard, but I always pushed myself with the weights I was moving.

I've always been pretty strong, but I did the program for about 2 years and I got my DL as high as 470 during school.

[greasypeanut]

No offense to you, but outside of the pullups, those aren't "better than average" numbers for someone's who's 170lbs. How old are you? If you're under 18, then maybe that's a good start, but someone looking to get seriously strong at your height/weight should shoot for a 5x5 of bench around 225, Squat for 5s at 275, OHP seated about 135+.

To build my maxes, when I was younger in college, I would do 10 week programs. 3x10 for the powerlifting moves in week ten, then 3 x 9, 8, etc down to 5. Then 2 sets of 4 down to 1. I'd base it on %s. All auxiliary lifts were 8s, and then 6s by the 7th week.

If you can tell, I didn't hit the reps super hard, but I always pushed myself with the weights I was moving.

I've always been pretty strong, but I did the program for about 2 years and I got my DL as high as 470 during school.

id like to know what kind of gym you go to. cuz at my gym i rarely see guys do 2 plates for bp, and if they do they do, its only for 1 set or they are doing it at half-rom. i rarely see people deadlift, and also squat.

i mean dont get me wrong, i know my numbers arent nething spectacular. but i still believe im better than the average gym person. and my current numbers arent all that far off from what youve listed. ive only been on my program for 6 months and have only had to do one deload on bp at 185. and ive also squatted 285 (2 months ago for 4 reps.) i just listed all my 5x5 numbers. also i think ohp should be done standing, not sitting.

i too have been blessed that ive been relatively strong throughout my life. i used to be a lot stronger in college (2 years ago) tho i didnt dl as much as you. at 160 i squatted 405, and dead lifted 385. but i trained totally different than what i do now.

edit: my goals are different, i only go to the gym because i find it fun. i only have one other strength/athletic goal that i havent reached in my life (dunking a b-ball) and thats what im working towards (i can touch rim with either hand right now). im at that point where my body does not fit with the way i want to dress and it sucks. im short as it is, but i also have a 40.5" chest and 24" thighs just makes it worse. if neone has ne workout programs that will help me lose mass plz share lol (i know it doesnt exist)

[Leeacto]

OK, well to each his own. I also only OHP while standing now. I just figured most people do it seated bc they can do more.

If you want to lose a little mass, but stay strong, I suggest doing Crossfit. I've been doing the workouts for about 1.5 yrs now, and I've moved from 195ish down to 182. My chest is a little smaller now (still about 42" from 43") but my back/legs are as strong/stronger. It's all high intensity circuit-type stuff

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

Yeah when people like leeacto make comments saying

"your squat should be this! Your bench should be this!" I get extremely discouraged.

I'd love to be stronger than I am, but how are our lifts supposed to just jump up that dramatically so quickly? Doesn't everyone have to start somewhere?

And seriously, I don't see anyone in my gym that can lift as much as myself and like greasy said, if guys are benching two plates they have shit form and it's for like 2/3 reps.

And almost no one deadlifts in my gym, and if they do it's usually high reps low weight.

[Leeacto]

Yeah when people like leeacto make comments saying

"your squat should be this! Your bench should be this!" I get extremely discouraged.

I'd love to be stronger than I am, but how are our lifts supposed to just jump up that dramatically so quickly? Doesn't everyone have to start somewhere?

And seriously, I don't see anyone in my gym that can lift as much as myself and like greasy said, if guys are benching two plates they have shit form and it's for like 2/3 reps.

And almost no one deadlifts in my gym, and if they do it's usually high reps low weight.

I definitely don't want to discourage anyone, so I apologize for that. I just have a really solid opinion of what type of numbers "strong" people can/should be putting up for their size. but I'll lay off that.

[greasypeanut]

I'd love to be stronger than I am, but how are our lifts supposed to just jump up that dramatically so quickly? Doesn't everyone have to start somewhere?

.

i believe i know the magic answer to this. eat more. sleep more. the sleeping part might be hard, but at least strive for the eating part. i know one might say, im going to get fat if i eat more. but as long as you keep that extra meal or w/e low fat, theres no reason why you would gain a lot of fat. heavier people should/and usually can lift more weight than lighter people.

i used to live in korea and once i moved back to cali and started to eat more meat, drink more milk, more protein shakes, basically go back to an american diet. ive gained 10 pounds, (my gut/fat content appears the same), just more mass. and my bp has gone from struggling with 135 for just one set to being able to do what i can now. granted thats all in a 1 year period, but id still say thats pretty quick.

If you want to lose a little mass, but stay strong, I suggest doing Crossfit. I've been doing the workouts for about 1.5 yrs now, and I've moved from 195ish down to 182. My chest is a little smaller now (still about 42" from 43") but my back/legs are as strong/stronger. It's all high intensity circuit-type stuff

yeah crossfit is something im interested especially since i loved doing oly exercises back in college. but they are kinda pricey, at least in my area (so cal, oc) have u changed ur diet at all? maybe that might account for ur loss in chest size?

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

Nah what I'm talking about is expecting everyone to be at the same strength level regardless of time spent in the gym, personal ability, genetics, individual recovery, stress levels, etc.

Example..... I only started deadlifting earlier this year and I started out at what, 95lbs and I hit 300lbs about a month or two ago. I felt like it was progress but of course there are people out there that say it doesnt count and you should be dling 400+ the first day you hit the weights.

[Leeacto]

yeah crossfit is something im interested especially since i loved doing oly exercises back in college. but they are kinda pricey, at least in my area (so cal, oc) have u changed ur diet at all? maybe that might account for ur loss in chest size?

CF is pricey, but the plus is that it's generally really basic. You don't have to join a CF affiliate at $150 a month to do it. You really just need a little bit of space barbell w/ weights, and pullup bar.

Figure this: One good workout (called Cindy) is as many rounds as possible (AMRAP) in 20 minutes of the following:

5 pullups

10 pushups

15 air squats.

Sounds easy, right? Well then you try to crank out 17+ of them.

I didn't really change my diet until, coincidentally, this week. I used to eat a little less healthy on the weekend, but now I'm trying to go a little more paleo route. Cutting out bread/rice (rice is gonna be hard), and piling on more nuts, seeds, and fruits.

I'm sure the loss in chest size is due to the fact that I'm not doing strict bench workouts w/ 300+ any more. Now it's all body weight bench or lots of pushups.

[greasypeanut]

CF is pricey, but the plus is that it's generally really basic. You don't have to join a CF affiliate at $150 a month to do it. You really just need a little bit of space barbell w/ weights, and pullup bar.

Figure this: One good workout (called Cindy) is as many rounds as possible (AMRAP) in 20 minutes of the following:

5 pullups

10 pushups

15 air squats.

Sounds easy, right? Well then you try to crank out 17+ of them.

I didn't really change my diet until, coincidentally, this week. I used to eat a little less healthy on the weekend, but now I'm trying to go a little more paleo route. Cutting out bread/rice (rice is gonna be hard), and piling on more nuts, seeds, and fruits.

I'm sure the loss in chest size is due to the fact that I'm not doing strict bench workouts w/ 300+ any more. Now it's all body weight bench or lots of pushups.

rofl at rice. im asian. i eat a lot of it, i think if i didnt id be at a nice trim and svelte 155.

ill give that workout a try once i hit my "goal" of 225 for 5x5 on bp. at that point, im going to start "cutting" and high intensity stuff seems to be the way to go.

Nah what I'm talking about is expecting everyone to be at the same strength level regardless of time spent in the gym, personal ability, genetics, individual recovery, stress levels, etc.

Example..... I only started deadlifting earlier this year and I started out at what, 95lbs and I hit 300lbs about a month or two ago. I felt like it was progress but of course there are people out there that say it doesnt count and you should be dling 400+ the first day you hit the weights.

well just remember that the strong is just an opinion. and the fact that u can pull 300 in only a year is pretty awesome.

[Leeacto]

On a more positive note, what are your goals (everyone)?

Outside of CF competition placements, I'm hoping to Clean and Jerk 275+ (only 235 now), and Snatch 205 (currently 175). I've never been trained for Oly, so we'll see how that goes.

[daphneYOUfindME]

Nah what I'm talking about is expecting everyone to be at the same strength level regardless of time spent in the gym, personal ability, genetics, individual recovery, stress levels, etc.

Example..... I only started deadlifting earlier this year and I started out at what, 95lbs and I hit 300lbs about a month or two ago. I felt like it was progress but of course there are people out there that say it doesnt count and you should be dling 400+ the first day you hit the weights.

don't let it discourage you, everyone has their own pace. you'll be doing 2x bw pulls soon (if you haven't already)

[FADEtoDARKNESS]

On a more positive note, what are your goals (everyone)?

Outside of CF competition placements, I'm hoping to Clean and Jerk 275+ (only 235 now), and Snatch 205 (currently 175). I've never been trained for Oly, so we'll see how that goes.

Jesus 275 is a lot. Gl man.

I'm hoping to get a 500lb deadlift by summer....or at least 405