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Selvage Denim

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By spitzbrg
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LA Guy

LA Guy

Posted
Posted
Quote:

"that may be the point being made"

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Nice one. Modern wide looms are producing ever more interesting denim. The natural indigo, non-shuttle loom denims from Orta Anadulu and Tavex are wonderful and look almost identical to the natural indigo selvedge cloth.

--- Original message by ringring on Aug 31, 2005 10:45 PM

I'm glad that you are bringing up two important points:

1) There is nothing inherently better about shuttle-loomed denim (I think that you, Wild Whiskey, and I have all made this point in Styleforum;) and

2) There are plenty of good denim mills (Turkey and Spain respectively, here, for those who might have wanted to, but did not, know) outside of Japan and Italy. I think that I will choke the next ignoramus who buys into the hype and tells me that only Japanese narrow shuttle loomed selvedge denim 14 ounces+ is worth owning.

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ringring

ringring

Posted
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1) There is nothing inherently better about shuttle-loomed denim (I think that you, Wild Whiskey, and I have all made this point in Styleforum;)

I'm not sure Whiskey has always been of this opinion LOL. (Just pulling your leg WW).

I really like selvedge denim, there's just a bit if misinformation that surrounds it.

Welcome LAG.

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Geowu

Geowu

Posted
Posted
Quote: There is nothing inherently better about shuttle-loomed denim

I disagree. Think Loopwheeler vs. Modern T-shirts. (24rpm vs. 240rpm)

In this analogy, selvage for being slower creates a weave with less tension? (I'm not a specialist in any way but you get the analogy)

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eastcoastrider27

eastcoastrider27

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To an extent I agree, but I think the point being made was that selvedge denim does not necesarily translate to a higher quality denim when compared to that produced on a regular loom.

Case and point, the countless number of companies producing selvedge denim nowadays versus companies still making great jeans on regular looms (JCrew selvedge vs. Nudie RR greycast for example).

Or maybe I'm wrong, and the denim is better on the shuttle looms, and other factors like cut, wash, etc. make the non-selvedge jeans better.

Or maybe I'm drunk

NyM...

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Geowu

Geowu

Posted
Posted

you're not wrong, the RR greycast is, however, thinner than their selvage counterpart, but that doesn't mean anything because if both were produced the same way (appart from the loom being selvage or not) it wouldn't matter.

Loopwheeler says: "Being slow means no excess tension. Fabric is being made with very much relaxed yarn, making fabric with softness which comes from cotton yarn itself." ... "making fabric with no excess tension, soft with a lot of air knitted in together with yarn."

Loopwheeler says about 240rpm fabrics: "It might feel like soft at first, but keep on wearing and washing, you would be lucky if you could think it's still soft after 3 years."

I'm not sure if this translates to denim, but there is a relation.

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ringring

ringring

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"I disagree. Think Loopwheeler vs. Modern T-shirts. (24rpm vs. 240rpm)

In this analogy, selvage for being slower creates a weave with less tension? "

I'm just curious, how you've come to this conclusion. Just how much Loopwheeler jersey versus high end modern jersey's have you seen? For example would you say that jersey produced high-end specialist jersey companies such as Dondi/Punto Tessile is somehow inferior to Loopwheeler's?

Perhaps your denim experience is a lot wider than mine, but in my limited experience, the width of the looms themselves makes less difference in the quality of mass produced denim than other factors (yarn, dye and dyeing methods being the major ones).

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horriblyjollyjinx

horriblyjollyjinx

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As mentioned it's rather obvious that the point the thread starter wants to make is that selvage is hyped/overrated and on its own not a reason to buy a pair of jeans, and I totally agree. I've seen people raise awful jeans to the sky just because they're made of selvage denim, and that is of course not right, though I would have to say the hype hasn't really started yet, at least in not Sweden. I would never buy a pair of jeans solely because of the denim they're made of, in my opinion cut and wash are the most important things, and I think most of you agree. However, selvage jeans tend to be of higher quality and have a better color because they're high end jeans, but selvage surely doesn't equal quality or good looks. I suppose selvage will be even less of a sign of quality jeans now that GAP and others have started producing their own selvage from modern looms.

tally-hoo

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Geowu

Geowu

Posted
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Quote: For example would you say that jersey produced high-end specialist jersey companies such as Dondi/Punto Tessile is somehow inferior to Loopwheeler's?

I'm not saying so. Neither is Loopwheeler, maybe not "inferior" but they are saying it is different.

No need to joke about my absense of experience, does it seem illogical that there is a similarity between t-shirt weaving and denim weaving?

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ringring

ringring

Posted
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"I'm not saying so. Neither is Loopwheeler, maybe not "inferior" but they are saying it is different. "

In your previous post you stated:

Quote: There is nothing inherently better about shuttle-loomed denim

I disagree. Think Loopwheeler vs. Modern T-shirts. (24rpm vs. 240rpm)

Therefore, I gathered that you disagreed that there is nothing inherently better about shuttle denim - ie. you think that shuttle denim is inherently better

No need to joke about my absense of experience, does it seem illogical that there is a similarity between t-shirt weaving and denim weaving?

My apologies. I wasn't joking by the way and I have a healthy respect and admiration for your knowledge. T shirt jersey is knitted not woven. And Loopwheelers jersey is knitted on circular machines, not flat looms. If you think about handknitting using two knitting needles and hand weaving using a loom - you may be able to picture the difference. It's substantial.

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