Nas V Jay-Z

[ktothe]

As someone who bought that JD album (I was like 13 leave me alone) I cant honestly say money aint a thang is his weakest track.

EDIT: U Dont Know > Heart of the City

I listen to it every morning, on loop, as I get ready for my day. Thats not hyperoble...

Its true inspiration for any hustler no matter what your hustle is.

[notesee]

such a tired arguement, but...

Has Nas ever done anything remotely near the level of Heart Of The City?

Nas Is Like (Produced by Primo).

[ExileOnMainSt]

Nas Is Like (Produced by Primo).

are you serious?

Nas is Like was fucking awful

I'd say IF anything could compare to the soul/lyrics of heart of the city, it would be "if I ruled the world"

definatley cant compare a primo produced song to a kanye produced song

[bonanz]

that "stole lyrics from xxx" shit really doesn't hold any weight with anyone who has listened to hip hop for most of their life and is over 18. I really attribute it to johnny-come-lately tech savvy kids and the internet, they don't understand hip hop or sampling...but they can edit together a cute crank dat video...

youtube is filled with these moronic beat conspiracy theory videos...and that's just the kids who take the time to edit a video...the rest just clog up forums with nonesense

8qLFpJ9k1tk

ZOMGZ!!! BIGGIE WAS A BITER SON!!!

quick some kid with a mac edit together the a comparison video between big and schooly d and end it with "coincidence??!??!"

4478SMAc2qM

[mike lowrey]

that whole biting is issue is fucking stupid..

personally, I prefer Jay over Nas, hes far more consistent in my book, and a much better live performer. more classic albums as well.

[cheep]

yeah... hip hop is based on taking something someone else created and making it your own. if jay spits someone elses lines and you think they are his, then hes doing a good job...

[homi29]

jay wins imo

nas done fell off for a minute, he's regained some of his form but like mike said lacks the consistency of jay

jay has a more effortless and varied flow and just as importantly much better beat selection..

i think in 10 years, alot more of jay's tracks will stand the test of time compared to nas

that being said nas still got 3 classic albums and i think illmatic is better than RD , but not but a whole lot

[spacemanvt]

this is like an impossible argument

jay has a better flow

nas has better lyrics

jay is more commerically sucessfull

esco is more sucessfull with the true heads

i cant call it. jay has a hotter chick tho.

[ExileOnMainSt]

just cause you dont understand him, doesnt mean hes nice..

[cheep]

just cause you dont understand him, doesnt mean hes nice..

this isnt the lupe thread.

[skistar]

jay-z was the shit when i was in like 9th grade...

Now, I'd listen to Nas over Jay-Z anyday

[Magsåvningsreserven]

illmatic

it was written (his best imo)

stillmatic

god's son

hip hop is dead (still taking risks in today's musical climate, "who killed it")

imo those are all classics, against maybe the 3 Jigga has..

[Gouf]

I'm not surprised this topic is still going strong.

I empathize with skistar. Part of my problem with jay-z is now that i'm older I find his lyrics unappealing. Cheep you mark Nas down because he writes? Are you serious? So did you think Pac wasn't all that good because he wasn't freestyling on every song? I really don't understand why many people assume that because a person can freestyle coherently that makes them better than someone that writes just as well? Jay even said in his "60 minutes" segment that he's simply writing everything down in his mind before he steps into the booth. Sure theres improvisation there at times, but he has an idea of what he's rapping before he turns the mic on.

Like I said before, Jay and Nas represent a departure in rap.. a fork in the road if you will. What you have on oneside is an unchecked flashy style that as we are seeing today is becoming lazy and blase (in comparison to earlier work). On the other hand you have an artist that is continuing to take chances and surprising his audience.

Jay hasn't grown as an artist since Blueprint while Street disciple and Hip Hop is Dead are two very different albums... but in the end it comes down to what you want. Do you want perpetual extensions of past hits for the sake of consitency or do you want something new and different with every album. You take your pick.

[heBAY]

that "stole lyrics from xxx" shit really doesn't hold any weight with anyone who has listened to hip hop for most of their life and is over 18. I really attribute it to johnny-come-lately tech savvy kids and the internet, they don't understand hip hop or sampling...but they can edit together a cute crank dat video...

youtube is filled with these moronic beat conspiracy theory videos...and that's just the kids who take the time to edit a video...the rest just clog up forums with nonesense

8qLFpJ9k1tk

ZOMGZ!!! BIGGIE WAS A BITER SON!!!

quick some kid with a mac edit together the a comparison video between big and schooly d and end it with "coincidence??!??!"

4478SMAc2qM

YO YOU DISOVERED IT!!!!

If I could, I would give you all of the rep possible in the world. I like how that dickhead kid didn't realize that it was Lord Finesse's voice that was also sampled. His beloved idea of what Fat Boy Slim's voice sounds like will be forever crushed if he were to read this thread.

Sampling is not stealing...even '97-'00 Puff wasn't stealing...he was just being corny...(although that IS debateable since he took hooks and what not as well)...

You're wrong though...it's a well known legend that BIG actually WROTE that Schooly-D "PSK" record... that's why it was so simple, cause it was the first shit BIG ever did. Damn...

[heBAY]

just cause you dont understand him, doesnt mean hes nice..

Probably the funniest shit said in this thread...because I actually said this when One Mic came out and everyone was on their Nas killed Jay trips...

Yo did you hear that? He said "papyrus like osiris and isis hieroglyphs"...yo he's deep. Rockefeller died of AIDS.

[ExileOnMainSt]

seriously though!

"Wise men build and destroy

While the real McCoy dopefiend, named Detroit is still dealin boy"

"Cuz I'm a wild barbarian, too hard, I'm scarin' 'em

Century 21 solar eclipse

While you listenin' to the words that I wrote on the disc"

Nas what the fuck are you talking about??

+++ Jay-z never did a song with nobody that spit a better verse than him, especially a girl, especially foxy brown who spit the hardest verse on It Was Written.

[deep flux]

Nas won the battle.

Jay-Z won the war.

[Gouf]

+++ Jay-z never did a song with nobody that spit a better verse than him, especially a girl, especially foxy brown who spit the hardest verse on It Was Written.

Hey, i'm not sure what rock you've been living under but in Blueprint theres this song called Renegade. You might have heard of it, Eminem was on it.

If you think foxy brown's verse was the hardest verse on It Was Written then I totally understand why an imbecile like you thinks Jay-Z is better than Nas.

I totally understand now.

[ExileOnMainSt]

I knew by posting that comment that you would say that about Eminem and Jay. Which just proves that you really don't know what your talking about.

Point me out where Eminem out does Jay in Renegade?? Anyone who thinks the theatrics that Eminem pulls when he raps is anything remotely on Jay-z's level should go back to listening to his Lupe Fiasco, and 50 Cent cds. Eminem was only a credible rapper on The Marshall Mathers LP, after that, hes a pop star.

You know nothing about the gangsta rap era from 92 - 99, when the majority of events to substantiate Nas is better/Jay-z is better occurred.

I'll be glad to point you out where Foxy spits the hardest verse on It was Written:

"We got to flee to Panama, but wait it's half and half

Keys is one and two-fifth, so how we flip

Thirty-two grams raw, chop it in half, get sixteen, double it times three

We got forty-eight, which mean a whole lot of cream

Divide the profit by four, subtract it by eight

We back to sixteen, now add the other two that 'Mega bringin through

So let's see, if we flip this other key

Then that's more for me, mad coke and mad leak

Plus a five hundred, cut in half is two-fifty

Now triple that times three, we got three quarters of another key

The Firm baby"

The Firm - do you even know what The Firm was? Remember? How Nas had one of the dirtiest supergroups ever, produced by Dr Dre and broke it all up because he was being outshined by AZ and Cormega?

[heBAY]

seriously though!

"Wise men build and destroy

While the real McCoy dopefiend, named Detroit is still dealin boy"

"Cuz I'm a wild barbarian, too hard, I'm scarin' 'em

Century 21 solar eclipse

While you listenin' to the words that I wrote on the disc"

Nas what the fuck are you talking about??

+++ Jay-z never did a song with nobody that spit a better verse than him, especially a girl, especially foxy brown who spit the hardest verse on It Was Written.

I had to reply to this for two reasons...

1. AFter hearing "Thief's Theme"...which is one of the better recent Nas songs...my boy comes to me with the comparison of Nas to Rae/Ghost. But it was agreed that Nas cannot do that "what the fuck is he saying" slang shit like the Cuban Linx duo. He killed "Let My Niggas Live" off The W...where he dabbled in some very clever lines/imagery...but he didn't go so far to say "smart" shit randomly just to sound sexy. Honestly, that's an incredible Nas verse.

2. I have to totally disagree with you on the Affirmative Action thing...for two reasons...a. Foxy NEVER wrote her own shit...and b. the math section in that verse was either bitten off of or written by Smoothe Da Hustler who did the EXACT same thing, in a better style and with correct arithematic (might I add), 6-months BEFORE good ole Fox-Boog. He even got quoted in the Source for that one. It was from his 2nd single "Hustlin'"...which sampled the Superfly theme. Once Upon A Time in America was a great, slept-on album. I remember feeling real disgusted at the fact that so many people thought Foxy was killin' that...it was one of the first slap-in-my-face/mock-my-intelligence Hip-Hop moments for me. Plus I remember the math being done INCORRECTLY (I'll have to peep it again). So any other Firm member, by default, wins over that bitch.

And on some personal shit...there's no mystery as to how Nas has been a confused, disloyal character in the Hip Hop world...whether it was changing images to appeal, getting dropped by his management, shitted on by the bigger NYC DJ's for saying some outlandish shit or making a funnystyle business move, burning seemingly every bridge he's walked across...etc. From every member of the Firm shitting on him in response to his ways (and Mega is the realest cat in that click...when he physically wants to inflict damage upon you...you probably fucked up)...to Mobb Deep...to Nore...to Cam...and the beat goes on...all of those were heads who were allies with Nas...now most of them still aren't happy with dude for whatever reasons.

Not to say that it makes him any less talented...just adding on to what Exile was saying.

[heBAY]

THat's also not to say that Jay hasn't severed ties...of course everyone will mention Dame and Rocafella and then the more recent Def Jam management...LL Cool J is mad...Beans may have felt some type of way...Method Man, I think...etc. etc. He's def. OD'd once he got to the so-called top...and supposedly you have to step on toes to get there...so I'm not discounting that.

I still think Jay's been more consistent and is dead nice...or was dead nice...now he's good for a verse or three, here and there.

[bonanz]

yeah i gotta agree that that foxy verse was not hot. rep to heBAY for bringing up smooth the hustla...kids started listening hip hop in like 99, never heard of common before Be, or never knew about outkast before stankonia

hardest nas verse, and probably my favorite verse from anyone ever, was off the purple tape, go ask someon who listened to hip hop before mp3's got downloaded...

[ExileOnMainSt]

purple tape is old school shit, rae and ghost definately speak their own language and nas's verse was definately hard as fuck, but favorite verse from anyone ever is a bold statement, but rep for havin such good taste

i really liked nas on self conscience with prodigy on the QB album, he was greasy but realistic, probably my favorite track on the album

cant rep hebay, but didnt know that foxy directly bit that shit, i imagined that mega wrote it for her

nas definately outdoes Jay when it comes to story telling, I gave you power, undying love, poppa was a player, mo money mo murder mo homicide, body in the trunk , one love - all very sick

[bonanz]

OOOH shit, got break out my doe or die cd...

in a mahogany, black scenery, that was lightning and raindrops, i'm tied up the basement cocaine spot, like bangkok...

my favorite flip of that ojays sample...man that's a great song

[heBAY]

yeah i gotta agree that that foxy verse was not hot. rep to heBAY for bringing up smooth the hustla...kids started listening hip hop in like 99, never heard of common before Be, or never knew about outkast before stankonia

hardest nas verse, and probably my favorite verse from anyone ever, was off the purple tape, go ask someon who listened to hip hop before mp3's got downloaded...

EARLY! I'd rep back but I got you already.

cant rep hebay, but didnt know that foxy directly bit that shit, i imagined that mega wrote it for her

nas definately outdoes Jay when it comes to story telling, I gave you power, undying love, poppa was a player, mo money mo murder mo homicide, body in the trunk , one love - all very sick

Good looks...that Nas story telling thing I can probably agree with. At least compared to recent Jay...he is type long-winded like me...you get lost in the shit (I had to listen to that one song a buncha times off of BP2 just to get that it was a story...even the hard beat couldn't really save me from getting lost in the plot).

OOOH shit, got break out my doe or die cd...

in a mahogany, black scenery, that was lightning and raindrops, i'm tied up the basement cocaine spot, like bangkok...

my favorite flip of that ojays sample...man that's a great song

Yeah that was an incredible verse...back when Nas WAS THAT guy.

[Gouf]

I still don't understand why people dismiss Eminem's flow as theatrical. The guy's got an excellent deivery and yet you penalize him for it? Take the delivery away and you've still got a verse harder than Jay's.

Yea Nas burns bridges, who isn't aware of that. But as Bay said that doesn't take away how good he is.

Starting to see theres a little more than just lyrics and music thats swaying opinion these days.

By the way Exile, attacking what music you think I'm listening to only makes you look like the immature one, not me.

edit: Just for good measure, i'm completely aware of Eminem's jump to Pop, but he hadn't made the jump at the time of Blueprint

[heBAY]

I kinda thought that EMinem was pop once he was all over MTV doing "Hi My Name Is"...i dunno...just saw how many TRLians were suckin' him for that song and then "Real Slim Shady" (not sure if that's before or after '01)...and so on and so on...I mean...pop in the sense of being a platinum selling artist...or pop as in bubblegum...I see both being the case for Em's first album either way..."Hi My Name Is" isn't quite "Big Pimpin'" in terms of pop style...but it still has the makings of a pop('ish) single = neanderthalic, repetetive, catchy hook + cute beat + simple verses for the people to be able to sing along with. He's just like Nas when compared to Jay...a totally different type of MC...you can also blame some of that on region.

Em is talented though...I'm not really a fan...but I think he's good at what he does. I too wasn't really a fan of his verse on that Blueprint song...and yes, it was partially due to the delivery of it...only cause I expected him to bring something angrier to the table (ala "Say I Am").

[ExileOnMainSt]

Dont get me wrong, I think Ems verse on Renegade was particulary good, considering all the bullshit he had been putting out before, and I tip my hat to him for making such a damn good beat.

But you have to consider that Em made the beat that catered to his flow, and Jay adapted to it (which Nas has done, subsequently) and I feel his verse was better. Their first verses both addressed issues surrounding them, their second verses is where the real competition lies, and Jay wins (IMO, you may have a different one)

And goof Im not trying to personally attack you, we were having a good old fashion debate here and you gotta start neg repping ppl.

You may proceed with your Nas related arguements

[brightbill]

I don't think Nas has made a less-than-great album since Stillmatic. Jay definitely has - Kingdom Come was uninspired and bland, and the R Kelly and Linkin Park collabs were inexcusable.

[Bona Drag]

^^

i agree; the linkin park collab was so wack i had to vote nasty

although a couple of the tracks with r came out alright

made you look was like my favorite track in college, there's just that one line about 'don't say my car's topless' that makes me wince

jay has a lot of lines that make me wince

although there's no question beyonce > kelis