Retail Prices in the U.S.A.---"I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A."

[keyko]

American retail is $280:

http://www.selfedge.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=201

Hong Kong retail is about $190 and Rakuten price with shipping to the States is about 180. Is it the lack of accruates and red tabs that makes them so pricey in the States?

[kiya]

Hong Kong retail is about $190 and Rakuten price with shipping to the States is about 180. Is it the lack of accruates and red tabs that makes them so pricey in the States?

We have to pay almost 20% in import taxes and customs fees, plus shipping to get them to us.

And our price also includes shipping to anywhere in the world via air mail (3 days or less) and we allow exchanges if they don't fit you or you don't like them so there's more flexibilty.

[keyko]

We have to pay almost 20% in import taxes and customs fees, plus shipping to get them to us.

And our price also includes shipping to anywhere in the world via air mail (3 days or less) and we allow exchanges if they don't fit you or you don't like them so there's more flexibilty.

I understand that you are offering better service than Japanese dudes who sell their stuff at Rakuten and I appreciate that your efforts deserve a certain degree of support from customers but not at the level of extreme altruism. What you are doing is nice and commendable, but not a hunnert more for a pair nicer than what your competition from Rakuten is doing.

[sidneylo]

I understand that you are offering better service than Japanese dudes who sell their stuff at Rakuten and I appreciate that your efforts deserve a certain degree of support from customers but not at the level of extreme altruism. What you are doing is nice and commendable, but not a hunnert more for a pair nicer than what your competition from Rakuten is doing.

I think what you may not be understanding is how much 20% tax is for a bulk order of denim to be shipped overseas. Calculate the weight of the package, then consider the shipping. Also, don't forget paying the bills for owning a storefront in San Francisco, etc.

If anything, it's a situation in between a rock and a hard place--retail is going to have to be premium in comparison to other overseas shops that are not affording such high overheads from fees/shipping.

I agree with you the price is high, but I think that the service from Self Edge is more than commendable. It's a high risk venture to invest in stock that is based overseas. Everything comes at a high(er) cost.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Wrong thread guys, and no, it shouldn't go in Options for buying.. either.

Understand that you can NOT tell me/talk about what & where I should spend my money. It pisses me off an infinite amount when someone tell me what to do. At the end of the day, if people feel that buying from a local store is their best options, that is what they will do. No amount of DERAILING will lead to higher sales. It's getting rather tiresome, too.

[And by the way, the "but our costs are this high, that's why you should by from us] argument is flawed, it should instead be "but the service we provide is ___"]

[sidneylo]

HJJ, no one is telling you to buy anything from anywhere. I think we were having a discussion on the reasoning behind the price points. I'm not arguing that you and everyone to buy from local stores. Go buy from Rakuten all you want. I was merely pointing out another perspective to consider.

You're taking it way too personally. No one is telling you where to spend your money--so calm down and undo your panties, cause they're all bunched up. Snitch.

Edit: "but our costs are this high, that's why you should by from us." As if that was even implied. If anything, the explanation is elaboration on why U.S. retail price is higher than Japanese retail.

[keyko]

I think what you may not be understanding is how much 20% tax is for a bulk order of denim to be shipped overseas. Calculate the weight of the package, then consider the shipping. Also, don't forget paying the bills for owning a storefront in San Francisco, etc.

If anything, it's a situation in between a rock and a hard place--retail is going to have to be premium in comparison to other overseas shops that are not affording such high overheads from fees/shipping.

I agree with you the price is high, but I think that the service from Self Edge is more than commendable. It's a high risk venture to invest in stock that is based overseas. Everything comes at a high(er) cost.

If you browse Rakuten jeans shops you may see that most of them have their own storefronts and the overheads in Japan and in Hong Kong are on par if not higher than in the States.

In Hong Kong the market for these jeans is very narrow and and if not for Benny's fanatical love of denim there would be no Take5 here. I would never buy off Rakuten anything that Take5 can offer but it is not because Benny is a great bloke to support but because his pricing policy makes me want to do so.

I am not saying SE prices are wrong and I am sure many store customers are ready to pay more for the real denim store experience, simply that at its price level online SE unfortunately cannot offer a viable alternative to buying from Japan direct, at least for many here.

EDIT

Sidney, talking about the US import taxes you forgot to mention that jeans shipped from Japan are exempt from Japanese VAT (which is included into the Japanese retail price and borne by Japanese customers) and no, it is not the Rakuten retail price that SE is paying the import tax on.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

HJJ, no one is telling you to buy anything from anywhere. I think we were having a discussion on the reasoning behind the price points. I'm not arguing that you and everyone to buy from local stores. Go buy from Rakuten all you want. I was merely pointing out another perspective to consider.

You're taking it way too personally. No one is telling you where to spend your money--so calm down and undo your panties, cause they're all bunched up. Snitch.

Edit: "but our costs are this high, that's why you should by from us." As if that was even implied. If anything, the explanation is elaboration on why U.S. retail price is higher than Japanese retail.

So I'm the one with the panties blaha when it's you who're using invectives. Right.

Sure, you haven't actually told someone where to buy from, just presented a whole lot of arguments why someone should buy form a certain store. Surely you're familiar with the word 'implicate'.

[kiya]

For the record, the only reason i said anything here is because somebody asked the direct question:

"why are the prices in America higher?"

HJJ, nobody is telling you where to shop, i just merely answered a question trying to give some insight on why SE's and BiG's prices are higher on some denim brands.

[sidneylo]

Understand that you can NOT tell me/talk about what & where I should spend my money. It pisses me off an infinite amount when someone tell me what to do... It's getting rather tiresome, too.

Sure, you haven't actually told someone where to buy from, just presented a whole lot of arguments why someone should buy form a certain store.

I love how you still think I'm out to convince people to buy from a certain store. Why do you keep on insisting that they are arguments for someone to buy from a store? Your resentment toward this intention has diluted your ability to view this as a simple conversation.

You come into a conversation about retail prices being high in U.S. retail all huffy and puffy about how people shouldn't push you around into buying from certain stores and telling you what to do--you're taking it personally.

Now, back to talking with keyko instead of jabbing with you about why you feel personally attacked when we're are discussing prices and not a store.

If you browse Rakuten jeans shops you may see that most of them have their own storefronts and the overheads in Japan and in Hong Kong are on par if not higher than in the States.

In Hong Kong the market for these jeans is very narrow and and if not for Benny's fanatical love of denim there would be no Take5 here. I would never buy off Rakuten anything that Take5 can offer but it is not because Benny is a great bloke to support but because his pricing policy makes me want to do so.

I am not saying SE prices are wrong and I am sure many store customers are ready to pay more for the real denim store experience, simply that at its price level online SE unfortunately cannot offer a viable alternative to buying from Japan direct, at least for many here.

EDIT

Sidney, talking about the US import taxes you forgot to mention that jeans shipped from Japan are exempt from Japanese VAT (which is included into the Japanese retail price and borne by Japanese customers) and no, it is not the Rakuten retail price that SE is paying the import tax on.

Yeah I agree. The ability to purchase directly from Japan is still a better choice for those who have the means to get through the process.

Very true about the Japanese VAT. How much of a % is it? I would imagine a shipment of denim that is taxed about 17-20%, would cost upwards of a thousand dollars just to ship over to the states--I feel like that does offset the wholesale a bit. Other than that though, there's still no middle ground between U.S. retail prices and Japanese prices.

[kiya]

Sidney, talking about the US import taxes you forgot to mention that jeans shipped from Japan are exempt from Japanese VAT (which is included into the Japanese retail price and borne by Japanese customers) and no, it is not the Rakuten retail price that SE is paying the import tax on.

OK, Keyko, i don't want to get into argument with you, but just stop while you're ahead. Everything you're saying is from pure assumption.

You're assuming there's an actual "wholesale price" for products being sold to the West. There isn't. Wholesale commonly is 30% to 40% less than retail for Japanese denim manufacturers.

Keep in mind, that's retail AFTER VAT, they don't remove the VAT before reducing the price to the wholesale number. Is this wrong? maybe. Can i do something about it? probably not.

But i can assure you that Flat Head, Iron Heart, Samurai, Skulls, and most of the rest work like this. The price which they offer the product at a wholesale level to the West is NOT thought of as a low wholesale price, it's quite high compared to the markup offered by companies outside of Japan.

It's an uphill battle but we're doing our best.

[dave023]

I do consider the possibility to try a jeans before buying a huge bargain...

How many people on this forum are selling theirs due to misizing...( which mostly leads to a loss of money)

So, I'd be very happy to have a store next doors selling some japanese denim brands...

just my 2 cents

[tweeds]

so i decided to make this a new thread. continue discussion, i'm reading with great interest.

[Bijan]

I'm getting the impression that Kiya and Gordon probably pay wholsale prices that are pretty close to what someone would pay from a Rakuten shop. If that is the case, then their markup is completely justified. It's not like Skull, Warehouse, Samurai, etc... have a US distributor that would bear import duties, freight costs, etc. I've bought a couple of pairs of jeans from Blue in Green. One pair fit perfectly, and another was not the fit I wanted. It would have been no problem to return the pair I didn't like, but I'm fortunate enough to work with a fellow denim junkie, and he bought them from me the same day, and paid full pop for them. It's nice having the option of an exchange, and it's a big time plus to be able to correspond with people who speak English (no slam intended there). I haven't bought from Self Edge yet, but it's only a matter of time until I do. Service makes the sale.

I think gas is way cheaper in Iraq...

[Dick Danger]

someone needs to get run over by a one of those double decker busses

[kiya]

Bijan hit it straight on here.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The only company that offers decent wholesale pricing is also the only company that has a US based distributor, and the only reason their prices aren't lower is because all accounts have a minimum sale price for all products.

[tweeds]

it also just struck me that this is a very very US-centric discussion--for most of us (well, me) outside the US, rakuten represents a very good cost-competitive alternative for certain brands, if we are willing to cross the language barrier, even with SE's free shipping.

to add another point - could kiya/someone in the know about wholesale pricing explain the disparity between US and singapore prices? skulls here are priced maybe $12 over the fabfour price (+ shipping). is it a differentiated wholesale price for parts of the world? likewise imperials and APC--both are carried at about the same price as obtaining a pair of jeans directly from the manufacturer + shipping.

i think it would be very interesting, if someone like coldrice or 2000db was still operating, to measure the traffic going through both channels.

[BTT]

A reason why Me/GF (Anny) would much rather buy from Self Edge, is mostly because of the service and knowing how the jeans fit. I don't really mind paying an extra 50-80, because if I bought the wrong size from rakuten. I'm fucked. Anny recently bought Skull Lindas, and if she had bought 00 from fabfour, she wouldv'e had to find a way to sell them off. But since mr Justice helped her out with sizing and everything, things worked out fine.

[kiya]

A reason why Me/GF (Anny) would much rather buy from Self Edge, is mostly because of the service and knowing how the jeans fit. I don't really mind paying an extra 50-80, because if I bought the wrong size from rakuten. I'm fucked. Anny recently bought Skull Lindas, and if she had bought 00 from fabfour, she wouldv'e had to find a way to sell them off. But since mr Justice helped her out with sizing and everything, things worked out fine.

Not to mention you guys come in so often that i gave Anny 50% off her Geishas..

The Anny & Co. Crew are the number one denim gang from the East Side.

[poly800rock]

it also just struck me that this is a very very US-centric discussion--for most of us (well, me) outside the US, rakuten represents a very good cost-competitive alternative for certain brands, if we are willing to cross the language barrier, even with SE's free shipping.

to add another point - could kiya/someone in the know about wholesale pricing explain the disparity between US and singapore prices? skulls here are priced maybe $12 over the fabfour price (+ shipping). is it a differentiated wholesale price for parts of the world? likewise imperials and APC--both are carried at about the same price as obtaining a pair of jeans directly from the manufacturer + shipping.

i think it would be very interesting, if someone like coldrice or 2000db was still operating, to measure the traffic going through both channels.

It really is very US-centric. I made this point in the other thread. If you have a brick and mortar store that you can physically step foot in, speak with the owner, have a relationship with them, than personally for me, I would see no need to go elsewhere. With the US people, the exchange option is very enticing.

Someone like you tweeds, horrible, or someone else buying from an online store in the US, I really don't see that much of a difference than seeking a 3rd party to purchase from japan as you never see a human in buying it anyways.

[keyko]

....

Someone like you tweeds, horrible, or someone else buying from an online store in the US, I really don't see that much of a difference than seeking a 3rd party to purchase from japan as you never see a human in buying it anyways.

Poly, the 3rd party service is so 2005 and is not necessary unless the item is exclusive to the shop that does not ship overseas (like Bears&Eternal). Most of the stuff can be ordered from Japanese stores via Rakuten direrctly from anywhere in the West, the Singaporeans can order stuff from Japan via their Postal Service with very minimal costs, and both Singaporeans and Hong Kongers can get Japanese denim at the prices slightly above Japanese at our denim brick and mortar stores, and unlike Hong Kong, Singapore is not a duty-free territory.

So it is really interesting to know if the Japanese manufacturers have varying export policies for the US and the rest of the world or it is indeed something else that makes the US prices higher?

[BTT]

Would Rakuten ever give Samurais 50% off? cuz Kiya gave Anny a 50% off for her jeans, and that's below retail. 280, to 150 with tax.

[sidneylo]

Yeah. Kiya gave me free yo-yo lessons and rubbed my honeycombs. That's service for ya.

So it is really interesting to know if the Japanese manufacturers have varying export policies for the US and the rest of the world or it is indeed something else that makes the US prices higher?

Yeah. Same question here. I'm more inclined to think Japanese manufacturers are keen on having their wholesale be higher because of their limited production and the notion of expansion is still a bit iffy, especially with the American retail market being such a foreign territory. Maybe that along with certain minimum orders create a higher freight carrier fee as well to add on top of the high wholesale.

[keyko]

Would Rakuten ever give Samurais 50% off? cuz Kiya gave Anny a 50% off for her jeans, and that's below retail. 280, to 150 with tax.

Sorry, but I don't think we are discussing VIP members / friends deals aren't we?

[BTT]

But I'm not a VIP member / Friend.

[hollaforadolla]

another thing no one is mentioning is the reason why your jeans are so cheap is because ratuken marks it a gift. technically, it isnt supposed to be so cheap. technically, everyone is supposed to pay the customs fees as kiya does.

[lowrider]

another thing no one is mentioning is the reason why your jeans are so cheap is because ratuken marks it a gift. technically, it isnt supposed to be so cheap. technically, everyone is supposed to pay the customs fees as kiya does.

Mine was marked as a gift too but I still had to pay $53 in customs fees. I got mine from Milwaukee rakuten.

[ndmhxc]

Sorry, but I don't think we are discussing VIP members / friends deals aren't we?

honestly though, i understand that youre trying to help people save their money, but really is that any of your business if they feel like supporting a small business in their own country rather than japan? im no economist but the general feeling i get from economics is that trade is good. yeah, youre spending an extra 50-80 dollars, but youre investing in your own damn economy (that is assuming you live in america, and if not those who shop at self edge ultimately end up supporting japans economy too...) . i dont see anything wrong with that.

[eldave04]

why make a thread basically attacking SE. everyone on here is already aware of the price difference, and some are willing to ignore that for service. if you aren t, that s fantastic, if sidney is, that s great too. don t forget that self edge hosted a sufu get together, at great time and energy expense. just let kiya do his thing, i m sure selling $300 jeans in the US to non sufu members is difficult enough.

You should visit some cool guy stores in Toronto that mark things up 100-200% more than retail.

[Dogfarm]

I think the premise of this thread is completely ridiculous. I have ordered denim online from Japan and from the SUFu market and it is not easy and also stressful for sizing.

The service that Kiya offers at Selvedge is well worth it. Get serious, where are you gonna try on a pair of ironhearts or even canes for that matter, or any of the japanese brands. I don't understand why someone would come on here to complain about US retail prices on japanese denim. I think what the big problem is that "someone" would like to get the same good deal of internet shopping but also have the luxury of being able to try the jeans on before they buy them.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, get over it.