morrissey?

[denimdestroyedmylife]

the cure/moz rift used to be intense

you had to like one or the other, but not both (i liked both)

(anyway, i disagree re: the cure; they've got many many many great albums, their catolog is deep and runs the gamut)

[digital_denim]

agree, i grew up on both and love both.

Although I stopped buying Cure albums after Disintegration.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

disintegration is the last cure i bought, too. my wife makes a case for wish, but i disagree.

morrissey put out one bad album: MALADJUSTED

but the cure have put out many bad records (everything after disintegration)

[shoreman1782]

"What Difference Does It Make" is on my running mix. Gets me PUMPED!

There's a dj'd Cure vs. Smiths dance party at the Black Cat every once in awhile. Good times. Some people take it seriously. Last year, I saw one guy there alone who danced his ass off during Moz/Smiths stuff, but just moped with his arms crossed during Cure songs.

And to add to the relationship side, the first real gift I bought my current special lady was the Meat is Murder LP. Except this was in 2001, so I get no cred.

Lastly, were you guys into the Smiths at the time? Like, were excited for new Smiths albums? Because that is old.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

my wife's first gift to me was HATFULL OF HOLLOW on vinyl for my birthday, the last smiths record to complete my vinyl collection (gotta have smiths on CD and vinyl)

i ran into a guy in a grocery and he commented on my meat is murder shirt. apparently, he had tix for the smiths when they were supposed to come around to philly, but they cancelled because moz had broken a bone (a toe?); i think they never did play philly... famously snubbed.

[st199ml]

Everyday is like Sunday and National Front Disco. Just listen to 'em both. If you still don't like the bloke's attitude or music then feel free to walk on by.

His recent popularity has been a bit of a pain in the arse though. The quality of his live show has really taken a downturn since he started the near ceaseless touring.

An I'm sure older than dinosaur poo story about the Smiths. Johnny Marr brings Morrissey what he thinks is the most beautiful melody he has ever written. What lyrics does Morrissey put alongside it? "Some girls are bigger than others".

[englandmj7]

I like the Cure as well, but I honestly think that there is no way you can say this as long as you have actually listened to at least one Smiths album the entire way through.

I mean honestly

Morrissey as a lyricist > Robert Smith as a Lyricist (No comparison here)

Johnny Marr's song writing and guitar > The Cure's song writing and guitar

and really I think that there is not much of a comparison between the two bands. The Cure had about one or two good albums, where as with the Smiths I could argue that they only had one or two bad songs.

And in terms of being influencial. The Smiths are probably the most influencial band of the past 25 years. They turned the entire indie scene into what it is today.

:eek:

I have never seen anyone try and argue the influence of The Smiths to that extent. A great band, but hardly "the most influential of the past 25 years." In regards to lyrics, that is obviously a matter of preference. Personally, I think most of Morrissey's songs are mindless filler.......

[jooles]

Personally, I think most of Morrissey's songs are mindless filler.......

harhar... I agree. Case in point:

How can you stay with a fat girl who'll say

"Ohhhhhhh! Would you like to marry me?

And if you like you can buy the ring"

I still like the Moz though... and once had that pompadour haircut too.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

i've read that "william, it was really nothing" was based on the schlesinger film "billy liar" which was a novel by keith waterhouse...

first time i took acid, i listened to the queen is dead and cried uncontrollably when "i know its over" came on; my friend came into the room and asked if i was okay

good times

[englandmj7]

i've read that "william, it was really nothing" was based on the schlesinger film "billy liar" which was a novel by keith waterhouse...

That is definitely my favorite Smiths' song, although I have never examined the lyrics.

[diewhitegirls]

I would normally be inclined to tell you your full of batshit, but ill refrain. Im guessing you havent given much of this stuff an honest listen. I would be more then willing to send you a few albums to hopefully change your mind and open your eyes to one of the greatest time periods in music history. Send me a PM if your interested.

No, I really have. As a matter of fact, I've downloaded and purchased many of my g/f's Morrissey collection. I just cannot get into his music at all. Now, The Cure is a different story, as Fat Bob is a pretty crazy songwriter, but Moz...can't do it.

[onemancult]

i just feel the need to toss in my two cents here and let everyone know that The Cure, as an entity, are better than The Smiths, as an entity. The Cure just fucking win. I don't think that The Smith's recorded work can even attempt to topple the mammoth double trilogy of near-spotless work that The Cure have in their corner, with Seventeen Seconds and Faith on the early end, Pornography at the center, and Disintegration and Bloodflowers on the other end. Just can't.

Further, based on these facts, The Cure are so much better than the Smiths that it isn't even funny:

Johnny Marr was in Electronic. Electronic really, really, really fucking suck.

How two great musicians could fuck something up so bad is really beyond me.

Robert Smith was in The Glove, and The Glove are like the audio equivalent of

dating a girl who's pubes are actually cotton candy.

Robert Smith was also once a member of Siouxsie & the Banshees, and that

is fucking awesome.

Case closed!

P.S. 'William, It Was Really Nothing' is thought to be about Moz's relationship with Billy Mackenzie of ultra-phenomenal gloomy pop outfit The Associates.

The Associates released a song entitled "Steven, It Was Really Something".

[cultpop 0217]

love the cure. love the smiths. please dont make me choose. i will weigh in and say i agree with some that the smiths entire catalog is excellent while the cure have had some definate misfires. in addition, musically, the smiths were much stronger than the cure and although mr. smith has had quite a few moments of sheer perfection, overall, he couldn't touch moz and marr at their peak .

[JBee]

i'd like to join in but the mention of the 'm' word makes bile rise.

to use his much overused working class parlance ' the mans a twot'.

Johnny Marr = god like genius, anyone since has been in his shadow, electronic or not, and he's a nice bloke so nerrr

as for the cure, their pop goth posturing was always a couple of steps behind the emergent colossus that was new order for me

thats my 2p, sorry if anyone thinks i'm an idiot, you're probably right....

[Carl]

Blah blah blah...who cares about what other bands members have been in or the solo work they've produced. Its about the sum of the parts. How good the music is.

If its gonna go down this road we might as well stack em up side by side.

The Cure - 14 Albums (not counting live recordings), 3 classics and thats being generous.

The Smiths - 6 albums (counting 2 compilations), 5 classics, 2 being among the best music to ever been released.

The Cure have nothing that even comes close to the brilliance that is The Queen Is Dead. Stack them up all you want, The Cure will always be a poor mans Smiths.

[Carl]

Im glad threads like this exist. It's the reason I wanted the Culture to be a part of SF.

[keagan]

love the smiths.

The Cure are alright, but the only records I really are from 79'-82ish. Probably Three Imaginary Boys being my favorite. Because of the low-finess

[onemancult]

Blah blah blah...who cares about what other bands members have been in or the solo work they've produced. Its about the sum of the parts. How good the music is.

If its gonna go down this road we might as well stack em up side by side.

The Cure - 14 Albums (not counting live recordings), 3 classics and thats being generous.

The Smiths - 6 albums (counting 2 compilations), 5 classics, 2 being among the best music to ever been released.

The Cure have nothing that even comes close to the brilliance that is The Queen Is Dead. Stack them up all you want, The Cure will always be a poor mans Smiths.

WHAT?

so, you're going to cheat and count two compilations simply because some of their best work is on the two, despite the major overlap issue it creates.

Soooo, the Smiths released 4 albums, not 6, and out of those, I'll only concede that one of them is a truly classic album that is perfect from beginning to end, and that is The Queen Is Dead.

Further, 3 classics for the Cure? We're talking Three Imaginary Boys, 17 Seconds, Faith, Japanese Whispers, Pornography, and Disintegration. All perfect, fully-formed albums, not just tossed off collections of songs. And, released one right after the other with pretty regular timing- the Cure were fucking on top of their game for a much longer period of time than the Smiths. You could even include Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me if you're feeling generous and happen to have just convinced a girl to get in bed with you by playing "Just Like Heaven".

Also, let's consider the fact that for everyone arguing that the Cure have had too many misses, maybe that's because they happen to be more productive than Morrissey and crew?

The Cure aren't the poor man's Smiths because the two fucking bands don't even compare- its not like either band has aped the other's style, so why even say something so blatantly stupid? The fucking Smiths released their first album after

The Cure had already released their first five ass-rapingly good albums. You're so biased that I think your punishment should be to listen to Bona Drag and nothing but Bona Drag for the rest of your life.

As for comparing to the brilliance of the Queen is Dead, as the sort of guy with more authentically goth-y leanings, I have to say that I think that Pornography crushes the Queen is Dead in terms of innovation, sound, and style. I'll concede that TQID is a better album lyrically, but that means fuck-all to me.

[Aeros]

That is definitely my favorite Smiths' song, although I have never examined the lyrics.

FYI, "William, It Was Really Nothing" was a B-Side. Just another example of why the Smiths are better than the Cure. The fact that one of their B-sides is better than probably 85% of all of The Cure's songs says a lot about just how great the Smiths were.

[Carl]

Like all musical arguements its apples and oranges. Its all a matter of opinion.

But if you only give the Smiths 4 studio albums then 3 out of those 4 are absolute classics. S/T, Meat, & The Queen. The Cure have one "possibly" classic album, Disentigration...which isnt even the best Cure CD. Head On The Door takes that distinction.

And you're not biased? I'll glady listen to Bona Drag if you suffer through Wish or Bloodflowers

[onemancult]

Ever listen to Join the Dots, the Cures' B-sides collection?

Shut the fuck up. "The Exploding Boy". That's all there is to it.

[onemancult]

Like all musical arguements its apples and oranges. Its all a matter of opinion.

But if you only give the Smiths 4 studio albums then 3 out of those 4 are absolute classics. S/T, Meat, & The Queen. The Cure have one "possibly" classic album, Disentigration...which isnt even the best Cure CD. Head On The Door takes that distinction.

And you're not biased? I'll glady listen to Bona Drag if you suffer through Wish or Bloodflowers

Wait wait wait wait wait. I'm totally with you, and I know that we're all arguing for good fun and not because we're going to kill each other over this... but you think the Head on the Door, one of the Cure's spottiest discs, is their best? Surely you meant Pornography.

You're listening to the Cure in all the wrong ways!

You're also the dude who thought Smack That was like, the best shit ever... I'm surprised you don't think Wish, with all its overly-refined pop sweetness is the best Cure album everrrrrr.

I'm not biased, man. I love the Smiths, too. But I think all you Smiths fans are like Mac addicts- I'd gladly listen to Bloodflowers, that album is criminally underrated.

Wish though... man, fucking Wish sucks.

[Carl]

Dude!

In Between Days, 6 Different Ways, Push, Close To Me, Baby Screams, Kyoto Song!

How is it not the best Cure album?!?

Guess who agrees with me?

[poly800rock]

i just feel the need to toss in my two cents here and let everyone know that The Cure, as an entity, are better than The Smiths, as an entity. The Cure just fucking win. I don't think that The Smith's recorded work can even attempt to topple the mammoth double trilogy of near-spotless work that The Cure have in their corner, with Seventeen Seconds and Faith on the early end, Pornography at the center, and Disintegration and Bloodflowers on the other end. Just can't.

Further, based on these facts, The Cure are so much better than the Smiths that it isn't even funny:

Johnny Marr was in Electronic. Electronic really, really, really fucking suck.

How two great musicians could fuck something up so bad is really beyond me.

Robert Smith was in The Glove, and The Glove are like the audio equivalent of

dating a girl who's pubes are actually cotton candy.

Robert Smith was also once a member of Siouxsie & the Banshees, and that

is fucking awesome.

Case closed!

.

electronic wasn't that bad. bernie was in it too.

love the cure. love the smiths. please dont make me choose. i will weigh in and say i agree with some that the smiths entire catalog is excellent while the cure have had some definate misfires. in addition, musically, the smiths were much stronger than the cure and although mr. smith has had quite a few moments of sheer perfection, overall, he couldn't touch moz and marr at their peak .

I agree cult. but i'll still say that pound for pound (literally as he became a fat goth) smith could hold his own.

Blah blah blah...who cares about what other bands members have been in or the solo work they've produced. Its about the sum of the parts. How good the music is.

If its gonna go down this road we might as well stack em up side by side.

The Cure - 14 Albums (not counting live recordings), 3 classics and thats being generous.

The Smiths - 6 albums (counting 2 compilations), 5 classics, 2 being among the best music to ever been released.

The Cure have nothing that even comes close to the brilliance that is The Queen Is Dead. Stack them up all you want, The Cure will always be a poor mans Smiths.

the cure started out WAY before the before the smiths, like a good 5 years. there is no way in hell the cure are the poor man's smiths. I'm not sticking up for the cure anymore as I saw them at curioso and that was a fucking joke, but to even compare em is doing both wrong.

I like the Cure as well, but I honestly think that there is no way you can say this as long as you have actually listened to at least one Smiths album the entire way through.

I mean honestly

Morrissey as a lyricist > Robert Smith as a Lyricist (No comparison here)

Johnny Marr's song writing and guitar > The Cure's song writing and guitar

and really I think that there is not much of a comparison between the two bands. The Cure had about one or two good albums, where as with the Smiths I could argue that they only had one or two bad songs.

And in terms of being influencial. The Smiths are probably the most influencial band of the past 25 years. They turned the entire indie scene into what it is today.

Johnny Marr as a guitarist is uncomparable to anyone. I agree. You will not find another guitarist that sounds like his playing. But then again, you listen to the Cure and no one plays rythmns like them either. Being the most influential bands of the last 25 years? Are you serious? No one can play like Johnny and no one can sing like the Moz. Nirvana, love em or hate em, are the most influential band of the past 25 years.

that being said....i LOVED the cure. in the past tense. For all the haters, listen to wish (DDML and ONEMANCULT) and you'll get the cure. I love disintergration as much as the next guy, but wish was brilliant. Listen to that album and listen to the era it came out in and you'll get it. just lush and beautiful...but in true robert smith style, hopeless at the same time. I'll say the smiths are great, and I still listen to them this day, but to write off the cure like so many of you have done is blaspheny. The cure did more for music than the smiths did, believe me. look at all the phony goths out there nowadays. where did their look come from.

now jd/new order, that was a fucking band.

[onemancult]

i think that i'm losing out here because the only people who seem to be cure fans seem to be fans of the cure's poppier side, whereas i am a fan of the cure's darker side.

i stand by 17 seconds, faith, pornography, and disintegration as the best cure albums.

i'd take bullets for them. one for each. no one managed to make dark, depressing music so aurally-pleasing and dynamic since joy division.

Edit: i just can't get over all these folks talking to me about the cure and citing some of their most boring, pop-leaning albums as their beacons of light? are you all fucking serious? are you all waiting with bated breath for christina aguilera to cover "lovesong"? why does everyone have such shitty pedestrian taste in music? are there really people who prefer the spindly high pitched guitar intro of "friday, i'm in love" to the pounding psychological horror that opens up "100 years"? you're fucking crazy. you're seriously fucking crazy. seriously.

someone out there, maybe one of all the random newbs who's names and identities i can't keep up with, fucking agree with me. i bet darkanimal would agree with me, dude is hellaciously goth. i bet he masturbates to new york times obituaries. WHERE ARE ALL MY GOTH ALLIES?

Edit#2: really now, there are people on this earth that would rather listen to "close to me", which is a fantastic pop song for sure, than the full on

synthesizer-drenched death march of "the funeral party"? who the fuck are these people? are they guidos? what is going on? has anyone in this thread ever listened to any cure songs besides the ones they play on the radio every once in awhile?

[englandmj7]

FYI, "William, It Was Really Nothing" was a B-Side. Just another example of why the Smiths are better than the Cure. The fact that one of their B-sides is better than probably 85% of all of The Cure's songs says a lot about just how great the Smiths were.

Huh? Tons of bands' best songs have been B-sides whilst their other music may have lacked; that doesn't automatically make them a "band so good that even their B-sides are awesome." Just because it is a B-side doesn't mean it is because it was "too crappy to put on an album." That argument just doesn't make any sense. Using your argument, I would criticize The Smiths for being stupid enough to NOT put a song that good on their album.

Bottom line is that both bands have a great repertoire, but in my opinion, the top ten compositions from each band don't even compare. There is a reason essentially everyone in the world can recite a good 5 Cure songs. Their music has alot more mass appeal and alot more breadth. They have an entirely broad range of fans; those into their poppy sound, those into their melodic tunes, dark tunes, what have you. I think that in this case, that speaks to their talent. Again, I love Morrissey but for fuck's sake there is ABSOLUTELY NO DENYING that 75% of his music sounds EXACTLY the same. Of course it is listenable; everything is so simple that you can listen to an entire album with ease and don't need to skip songs; the shit is too cut and paste from album to album; it gets tiring.

[poly800rock]

dude, listen to edge of the deep blue sea, to wish impossible things, high, or even BURN is from that era. You're fucking nuts if you think 17 seconds is better. I've listened to the cure for close to 20 years now and i've taken the goth shit as the bible for quite some time. It almost upsets me that people who are cure fans don't listen to the "pop" stuff. I'd even say, they're not cure fans..

[onemancult]

dude, listen to edge of the deep blue sea, to wish impossible things, high, or even BURN is from that era. You're fucking nuts if you think 17 seconds is better. I've listened to the cure for close to 20 years now and i've taken the goth shit as the bible for quite some time. It almost upsets me that people who are cure fans don't listen to the "pop" stuff. I'd even say, they're not cure fans..

i listen to the pop stuff too, i love it all deeply. but i seriously think that the darker stuff is where the cure shine, because they manage to apply the dynamics of pop music to

the depressive atmosphere of goth without fully diluting either of the two. the only band that managed to pull that off before them was joy division, and i don't think anyone has managed to do it better than the cure since the cure. they still do it perfectly, the eponymous album produced by ross robinson actually had some really, really, really good songs on it. after all these years, robert smith can still pen decent tunes. morrissey fucking rhymes hamburger with hamburger. fuck him.

i never realized i cared about the cure this much until this thread happened.

[poly800rock]

and look what they did with pop music....made it seem all happy, but so depressing at the same time...

[JBee]

calling joy division 'goth' is a step too far.....

bauhaus you could get away with if you were really cute but not joy division, sorry