carl vs capitalism.

[poly800rock]

The Four Tigers (HK, Singapore, Taiwan & South Korea) all come from a confuscianist tradition, which historically has always had strong principles of welfare, and confuscianist societies probably represented the first welfare states in the middle ages.

you name the tigers, but you also have to question the huge role of post colonialism. all of these countries have all had HUGE help and backing by either foreign countries involved in colonialism or by foreign countries dumping money into the local economies. Look at the other countries in the area and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[mwrenchd]

not to mention that most of the developed asian economies have built up industry through MAJOR protectionist measures over a number of decades.

[derdankhund]

no one has mentioned endemic levels of corruption, broader measures of societal freedom that many think lead to long term development paths, legitimacy of government, permanence/stability of institutions both legal and economic, rule of law & stable property rights, egalitarian access to become agents on many levels of the market,

more detail on the previous sentence:

recent research has pointed to the breakdown of rule of law in Argentina as one of the instrumental causes of its downfall in the latter half of the twentieth century. Argentina was poised to become one of the top world economies in the early part of the 1900's and we're all obviously aware of where they ended up...

another interesting point brought up in a book in progress is that many of the long term disparities in development and growth can be traced to the equality of opportunities for entry into the market (i.e. contracts for importation of given good are not exclusive, control of privatized industries is determined by those industries themselves in a market-efficient fashion, etc.). The book traces from the start of recorded history and tries to analyze common factors among development spurts for any given region empire or country.

the question of growth/development is truly a field of study in itself, combining aspects of economics, law, political science, and public health as well as the necessity for encapsulating culturally/religiously/ethnically specific characteristics within a region or country. I'm spending the next four years getting a phd in economics with a focus on development/public policy, so this stuff is going to be my bread and butter for the time being.

edit: also, international capital flows be they post-colonial, aid based (IMF, World Bank, other development banks), or otherwise, are central to the problem (and solution)

[englandmj7]

I have got a better thread:

Carl's Ass vs. My Fist - Part 3 (Return of the Stink Eye)

[ruprecht]

no one has mentioned endemic levels of corruption, broader measures of societal freedom that many think lead to long term development paths, legitimacy of government, permanence/stability of institutions both legal and economic, rule of law & stable property rights, egalitarian access to become agents on many levels of the market, (and solution)

"Of course that's your contention.

You're a first year grad student.

You just finished some Marxian

historian, Pete Garrison prob'ly, and

so naturally that's what you believe

until next month when you get to James

Lemon and get convinced that Virginia

and Pennsylvania were strongly

entrepreneurial and capitalist back in

1740. That'll last until sometime in

your second year, then you'll be in

here regurgitating Gordon Wood about

the Pre-revolutionary utopia and the

capital-forming effects of military

mobilization."

sorry, it was the 'more detail on the previous sentence' that got me.

[derdankhund]

sorry to offend...but upon reading my initial assertion, i realized it sounded kind of random, so i thought i should back it up slightly...

and trust me, I more resemble will than I resemble the stuck up harvard grad student...

edit: and most of what I touched upon isn't referenced until at least second year in a grad phd program...first year is all abstract math based theory...

[ruprecht]

sorry man, it's probably my bad - a combination of a wednesday night beers-in-front-of-the-telly and knowing it's my last night before quitting cigarettes. (combined with having nothing constructive to add to this conversation right now.)

Fuck! carl weathers on tv right now, i love arrested development.

[Double D]

I'm so glad to be a music major. Despite my girlfriend being a politics major, she's still a crazy fucking Marxist. Here's hoping she gets a better wage than me at least.

[Carl]

I have got a better thread:

Carl's Ass vs. My Fist - Part 3 (Return of the Stink Eye)

Part 2 was my favorite;

Carl's Dick vs. Englands Face (Super Squirts Return)

[englandmj7]

Part 2 was my favorite;

Carl's Dick vs. Englands Face (Super Squirts Return)

Meh. Part 2 was ALRIGHT.

The storyline was lacking and the denoument was sub-par. I guess they should have gotten a bigger-dicked actor to play the main role; his yogurt-slinger was disappointing to say the least.

[poly800rock]

I'm so glad to be a music major. Despite my girlfriend being a politics major, she's still a crazy fucking Marxist. Here's hoping she gets a better wage than me at least.

wouldn't be surprised if you made more. know any politics major with a B.A. rolling in the big bucks?

[canice]

fuck the bible, but honestly... "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

i agree with carl, but people who are wasting away their lives on mindless pursuits like 400k cars instead of doing something worthwhile with their idle, selfish lives will get what's coming to them.

[englandmj7]

...................

[englandmj7]

i agree with carl

You liked "Carl's Dick vs. Englands Face (Super Squirts Return)" better too?

........................

[Carl]

Huh.

In the part 2 video i watched you choked you had so much cum in your mouth.

Semen clouding your vision, old chap?

[minya]

[werdtoyourmoms]

fuck the bible, but honestly... "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

i agree with carl, but people who are wasting away their lives on mindless pursuits like 400k cars instead of doing something worthwhile with their idle, selfish lives will get what's coming to them.

lmao

also, lmao @ minyas pic

[violetsareblue]

mmm these past couple months i've been refraining myself from materialistic and unnecessary buys but i havent got to actually donating the money

[red]

BEST THREAD EVER ON SUPERFUTURE.

we should have more like it.

[red]

I have got a better thread:

Carl's Ass vs. My Fist - Part 3 (Return of the Stink Eye)

Part 2 was my favorite;

Carl's Dick vs. Englands Face (Super Squirts Return)

Meh. Part 2 was ALRIGHT.

The storyline was lacking and the denoument was sub-par. I guess they should have gotten a bigger-dicked actor to play the main role; his yogurt-slinger was disappointing to say the least.

Huh.

In the part 2 video i watched you choked you had so much cum in your mouth.

Semen clouding your vision, old chap?

motherfucking awesome.

[masuerte]

my biggest fear is that mass capitalism is just going to completely destroy this planet. I mean, the environment is already in semi crisis and thats without billions of free chinese people adopting the western culture of consumerism..a billion more cars, a billion more blenders, a billion more george foreman grills, a billion more of the billion idiotic things we have in the US and Europe. Can the planet take that? and is there enough raw materials>?

Hey down... your fear is true. We don't need Chinese people to screw up the environment, we've already got South America, America, and every-where else. You and I typing on our computers have already fucked things up... and you saying that you don't want to give other's the opportunity to do the same is severely elitist. We're fucked... in the future. But currently, you are browsing the internet and being inspired to talk about your revelations on superfuture of all places.

And whilst there is nothing we ourselves can do to prevent this shit future... we have choices in how to approach it.

1. Do us all a favor and lessen the gross overpopulation of this world and leave.

2. Try to be ridiculously optimistic and either go join a church/activist/political organization to try to keep yourself in denial that there is a way to change things.

3. Position yourself for the upcoming race/class war that is to come by learning skills to separate and save you from those who will be trampled under the super-rich/influential/powerfull.

[lil brown brother]

surely you mean "most emerging markets ie thir world countries are not self sufficient enough to take advantage of the socialistic model"?

Only protectionistic, socialist countries need to be self-sufficient, and they never ever are. Look at North Korea and the Soviet Union. A little rainy weather and the koreans starve. The women started demanding hygiene products and the country collapsed.

The whole point of free trade and globalisation is that you do NOT have to be self-sufficient. You simply do what you do best, and buy things that you are worse at producing. In every free transaction, all involved parties benefit. THIS and nothing else leads to economic growth.

no i did not mean the socialistic model .....

my point is .. countries with less capital cant compete with industrial countries in the global market. furthermore globalisation/capitalization expends more natural resources for importation rather than national consumption. Example ... the Philippines a third world country ... full of factories making products for Hilfiger, Polo, even Kmart .. things which the normal populace cant even buy on a day's wages.. not all countries can be China and India ... for every globalisation success there will be failures.

[masuerte]

Example ... the Philippines a third world country ...

hahaha, had to go with the familiar

[derdankhund]

I'm not certain how broadly applicable an example sweatshop labor is...many people work in the US manufacturing things they cannot afford on their salaries. Most manufacturing labor pays poorly, and if the person is manufacturing higher-end stuff, chances are they can't buy it. I'm not saying the Hilfiger/CK is high-end, but comparative to the salaries being paid in your example, the Philippines, it is relatively unaffordable.

That being said, it is also worth noting whether or not the filipinos working in the "sweatshops" would be better or worse off if those sweatshops had never come there. The fact that people are willing work in these factories is somewhat indicative, not to mention the much needed boost to the economy the foreign dollars provide.

I'm not saying I wholeheartedly agree with sweatshop labor, but there are two sides to every coin...

[mike lowrey]

Example ... the Philippines a third world country ... full of factories making products for Hilfiger, Polo, even Kmart .. things which the normal populace cant even buy on a day's wages.. not all countries can be China and India ... for every globalisation success there will be failures.

I see your point, but then again this has probably brought numerous jobs to the country. cheap labour is one the biggest resources in developing countries. whether the wages these companies pay are enough is a different thing, of course, but nevertheless I'm pretty sure poverty has decreased there? atleast as far as I know the economy has grown constantly in recent years.

[Brienneoftarth]

Masuerte

"Hey down... your fear is true. We don't need Chinese people to screw up the environment, we've already got South America, America, and every-where else. You and I typing on our computers have already fucked things up... and you saying that you don't want to give other's the opportunity to do the same is severely elitist. We're fucked... in the future. But currently, you are browsing the internet and being inspired to talk about your revelations on superfuture of all places. "

I agree. But I didn't say I believed that China or any one else should'nt be free to do what they want. I just know that things are only gunna get alot worse environmentally as they do. It's not my place to control any one though i do try and practice self restraint and conservation as a free consumer. I guess it's just worth thinking about the fact that freedom and democracy are destroying our planet where as other more tyrannical regimes tend to keeps things in better shape by denying millions of people basic rights. Its really kind of the opposite of the traditional good vs evil where the evil lord turns the landscape to ashes while the forces of good keep things bright and clean......obvious points i guess but just thinking in type.

[airfrogusmc]

“Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power†Benito Mussolini

I want to say I'm a capitalist. Both my wife and I own our own businesses. But history here in the US has shown that corporations that do not have laws governing their behavior will not always do the right thing. All we have to do is look to the turn of the last century to see this. Some always want to blame things like labor laws or environmental laws for the problems that US corporations have in todays market. To believe that would be to rewrite history because there are reasons for those laws. The Chicago river was a real shit hole that no one wanted to have a business near let alone live on. But because of strict environmental laws its has no become some of the most expensive real estate in the city. Remember all the kids at the turn of the last century that were working 16 hour days in sweat shops?

Corporations only have one rule. Make more money. The greed is good mentality has created all kinds of abuses because politics and corporatism have become closer now than ever. Abramoff/DeLay, Enron, we could go on all day. Remember what or old friend Benito had to say.

[lil brown brother]

I see your point, but then again this has probably brought numerous jobs to the country. cheap labour is one the biggest resources in developing countries. whether the wages these companies pay are enough is a different thing, of course, but nevertheless I'm pretty sure poverty has decreased there? atleast as far as I know the economy has grown constantly in recent years.

8 out of 10 Filipino families not earning enough to meet basic needs

Date Posted: 2.10.2006

February 10, 2006

8 OUT OF 10 FILIPINO FAMILIES NOT EARNING ENOUGH TO MEET BASIC NEEDS

Estimates by independent think-tank IBON Foundation show that 8 out of 10 Filipinos or some 83% of the country’s families are poor, based on the January 2006 national average daily cost of living for a family of six of P538.80 and the 2003 Family Income and Expenditures Survey (FIES).

This is in contrast to government’s estimate that only 24.7% of the country’s families fell under its annual per capita poverty threshold of P12,267. If the international poverty measurement counting those living under $2 a day as poor is used, then over 87% of the country’s families are poor.

IBON estimates that 17 million workers suffer from job scarcity, but even those who have work hardly earn enough to meet their needs. The daily minimum wage in Metro Manila is P325 (P275 legislated wage plus P50 emergency cost of living allowance), not even half of IBON’s estimated daily cost of living for a family of six in the capital of P654.96.

The real value of wages itself has been further devalued by the rising prices of basic goods and services. The purchasing power of the peso, or the actual amount of goods and services one peso can buy, has fallen to P0.74 in January 2006 from P0.79 in the same month last year.

This means that the real value of the minimum wage in the NCR has declined to 240.50 from P256.75 in the same period last year. One of the factors that contributed to the slide in the purchasing power of the peso was the implementation of the expanded value-added tax (EVAT) in November. The peso’s purchasing power is expected to further diminish with the recent increase of the EVAT to 12 percent. (end)

©2002 IBON Foundation, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Double D]

Corporations only have one rule. Make more money. The greed is good mentality has created all kinds of abuses because politics and corporatism have become closer now than ever. Abramoff/DeLay, Enron, we could go on all day. Remember what or old friend Benito had to say.

There's one single fundamental flaw with the corporate system, and that is the issue of liability.

The entire problem of corporate responsibility would be solved by making both shareholders and executives liable. As it stands, corporations are given fines. If you remember the scene on the airplane in Fight Club, where Edward Norton explains his job and how corporations assess the costs of improving product safety versus the costs of potential lawsuits... There have been plenty of documented cases where corporations have done that. Not too long ago the US government put a value on a human life in corporate liability cases. If you make execs and shareholders liable for their actions, the problem is immediately solved.

[Double D]

wouldn't be surprised if you made more. know any politics major with a B.A. rolling in the big bucks?

I dunno, the British public sector isn't so bad. Secondly I'm 21 and I only have a $160k mortgage on a $500k flat, so it's not like we're going to need to start raking in big fat American megabucks.