Jay Allen - bespoke

[Jay Allen]

Hello All -

I posted a few images of my work in this forum several weeks ago. The feedback, both good and not so good, was appreciated. As I gear up for the Pool Show in Las Vegas in February I will try to post one design per week for your feedback. I finally settled on a blank shirt for my entire line. I chose Next Level Apparel's 50/50 shirt. I love the look I get after dyeing it and the feel is silky smooth. If you like a semi sheer shirt that drapes well, and has some stretch to it, you'll love this shirt.

I did this shirt just for fun....but then decided that I really liked the font and the subtle look I could get by manipulating the discharge formula. I will probably include this shirt in the Pool Show assortment. As you can see in the photo, I've made the image extremely light. As with all of my shirts there is absolutely no "hand" and it looks great with a nice pair of jeans. The heathered look I get during the dyeing process is, to my eye, beautiful.

Several of you asked about purchasing shirts when I posted before. At that point I wasn't ready to sell anything because I wasn't totally happy with results I was getting. Finding the right shirt, solving the dye issues I had, and working out a few other kinks has changed all that. This shirt is for sale at $30.00 shipping included in the US. Outside the US it is $35.00. Size are as follows:

Small = 18" wide, 25" length

Medium = 20" wide, 26" length

Large = 22" wide, 27" length

X-Large = 24" wide, 28" length

These shirts have been washed so the sizes are good. There will be no shrinking. The shirts are also side seam construction. If you like your shirt to fit tight I would consider going down one size as they will definitely stretch.

Payment can be made to my PayPal account using [email protected] as the email address.

Thanks for looking, and as always, all feedback is welcome.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[SENDkylHISPASSWORD]

Jay, good shirt choice that looks good. I dig the graphic work too, niceley executed. What does bespoke mean though?

my favourite things

http://mfthings.blogspot.com/

[Jay Allen]

Bespoke, at least in the fashion world, means custom made. A "Bespoke" suit would be one you had personally tailored for you.

Thanks for the kind words! The shirts actually looks much better in person. I've hired a "real" photographer to shoot my line. Hopefully will have that done in the next couple of weeks. As I have mentioned in previous posts I do all of my own dyeing, printing, graphics, etc. It's nice when it all come together and you actually like what you've made.

I've developed 8 colors that I'm happy with and will continue to post stuff over the next few weeks.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[ddohnggo]

will you end up doing some cut + sew hoodies and other garments that aren't t-shirts?

looks good!

[haptronic]

jay

the colour of that shirt is fantastic, good luck at the pool show. my favourite is still the rising sun though.

kyl

can't tell if you're joking. bespoke means that the pattern [generally of a suit] was made from scratch starting from the persons measurements, and finished by hand. as opposed to made to measure where the pattern is adjusted from a stock size.

i think [i hope] jay is playing with the idea of using a blank shirt, [the opposite of bespoke] and saying something about the work ivolved in printing and dying [perhaps a reaction to the just a t shirt company threads on here]

EDIT: jay beat me to explaining bespoke.

Edited by haptronic on Dec 5, 2005 at 11:54 AM

[SENDkylHISPASSWORD]

Thanks for the the response, and haptronic, I was serious. I didn't know what bespoke meant. One suggestion jay if it is not too late is, is it possible to dye the thread, because I think it looks a bit off with the shirt being dyed and the thread remaining white. I guess it is a testament to the fact that you do dye your own shirts which is cool, but on a purley asthetic level i think the white thread detracts from the overall aperance.

my favourite things

http://mfthings.blogspot.com/

[Jay Allen]

Haptronic - You got it.....exactly! While I don't consider my shirts "bespoke" I do consider them to be one of a kind garments. To be honest....I also know that a bunch of guys on this board, and others, are into bespoke apparel. I thought they might like a graphic t-shirt speaking to that.

I'll be posting the reworked "Rising Sun" shirt soon. I love the way it looks on the new shirts I'm using. I just need to fine tune the colors a bit more. I've actually produced several more designs in the last month. I'm looking forward to getting feedback on those as well.

I hope to be using cut and sew shirts in the future. My dilema has been, and still is to some extent, what will make my shirts more interesting? I decided early on to develop dye techniques, colorways, and printing techinques that were different from what people are seeing on a day to day basis. I'm just a one man operation at this point and decided to expend my energy, and money, there first. If I get any traction at the Pool Show then that will allow me to drop 20K into a cut and sew t-shirt program.

I am already working on a cut and sew sweatshirt because I can't find anything I want to work with. I don't even want to start on someone elses blank body. I have a clear idea of what I believe to be a great sweatshirt and the only option I have is to make it.

Thanks agian for the kind words.....

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[ddohnggo]

when do you think you'll have your other designs for sale? i'm curious to what those look like.

[Jay Allen]

These shirts are not PFD - prepared for dye. Therefore the thread used in sewing them together is polyester and won't dye. I have been completely torn on this issue. The thread seems to stand out much more in the photo than it does in person. Because the shirts are heathered the thread almost disappears into the fabric.

I've gone back and forth on this issue over the last few weeks and have decided that I actually LIKE the look. It's a detail that makes these shirt "Jay Allen" shirts. Thanks for the feedback....

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

when do you think you'll have your other designs for sale? i'm curious to what those look like.

--- Original message by ddohnggo on Dec 5, 2005 12:11 PM

I'll get more designs posted in the next couple of weeks. I have about 20 designs I'm taking to the Pool Show. I'm in the process of getting them transfered onto the new shirts I'm using. It took a fair amount of time to develop the 8 colors I'm using. Now it is just a matter of re-printing a few of each design for samples and photographs.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[SENDkylHISPASSWORD]

Jay, when making your sweatshirts, check out the Ron Herman ones for reference if you can manage to find them. They are the most comfortable and best fitting sweatshirts I have tried on.

my favourite things

http://mfthings.blogspot.com/

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

Jay, when making your sweatshirts, check out the Ron Herman ones for reference if you can manage to find them. They are the most comfortable and best fitting sweatshirts I have tried on.

--- Original message by SENDkylHISPASSWORD on Dec 5, 2005 12:32 PM

Thanks for the heads up....I've seen them on-line, but never in person. I'll try to get my hands on one for reference. Thanks again!

BTW....Good job on your blog. It's well put togeher.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[andewhall]

Awesome Jay!! Good work my freind, the Bespoke looks the business. I think the top stitching is a good detail, and the Heathered shirts look nice, good job on the dyeing!

Props Ande

http://photobucket.com/albums/y278/andewhall/

[SENDkylHISPASSWORD]

Quote:

Quote:

Jay, when making your sweatshirts, check out the Ron Herman ones for reference if you can manage to find them. They are the most comfortable and best fitting sweatshirts I have tried on.

--- Original message by SENDkylHISPASSWORD on Dec 5, 2005 12:32 PM

Thanks for the heads up....I've seen them on-line, but never in person. I'll try to get my hands on one for reference. Thanks again!

BTW....Good job on your blog. It's well put togeher.

--- Original message by Jay Allen on Dec 5, 2005 12:38 PM

Thanks a lot, maybe when you get some more samples up here I will post them. I have not been updating it too much latley though, exam time.

my favourite things

http://mfthings.blogspot.com/

[adsurgo]

what do you do? screen on the dye?

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

what do you do? screen on the dye?

--- Original message by adsurgo on Dec 5, 2005 04:56 PM

The shirt was dyed first...then printed. I use discharge inks almost exclusively. In the case of this shirt I modified the ink to get the effect I wanted.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[adsurgo]

how exactly does that all work?

[sarno]

jay--stupid sewing question: is that double stitching on the neck and sleeves significantly more expensive than a single stitch? Also, is the stitch done in one pass or are there two passes? i have a margiela long-sleeve with the double stitch, i'm curious how it's done.

[adsurgo]

im pretty sure its one pass with the cross threads showing on the inside.

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

jay--stupid sewing question: is that double stitching on the neck and sleeves significantly more expensive than a single stitch? Also, is the stitch done in one pass or are there two passes? i have a margiela long-sleeve with the double stitch, i'm curious how it's done.

--- Original message by sarno on Dec 6, 2005 04:03 PM

These aren't cut and sew shirts so I can't tell you exactly how it is done, or the added cost for the detail. I can tell you that it is one of the reasons I choose Next Level Apparel for my blanks. I've included a few detail pic's...hope they help.

Front Detail

Inside Front Detail

Inside Back Detail

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

how exactly does that all work?

--- Original message by adsurgo on Dec 6, 2005 01:32 PM

Discharge inks essentially remove the underlying dye. The catch is.....you have to have the correct dye for it to work. That is why not many people are working with it. You can't buy off the shelf shirts to print on. I've spent a lot of time learning how to dye and have finally reached the point that I'm fairly good at it. There is no end to the different looks you can get once you understand both dyeing and the mixing of discharge inks with pigments. The real upside to the processis that you end up with no "hand". The shirts are completely smooth and silky.

It has taken me a year, and a ton of money, to figure all this out. I'm looking forward to showing at Pool....we'll see if it was all worth it!

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[andewhall]

Quote:

jay--stupid sewing question: is that double stitching on the neck and sleeves significantly more expensive than a single stitch? Also, is the stitch done in one pass or are there two passes? i have a margiela long-sleeve with the double stitch, i'm curious how it's done.

--- Original message by sarno on Dec 6, 2005 04:03 PM

Hey Sarno,

The stitching on tees like this is done with a coverstitch machine. The machine has twin needles and stitches two rows of topstitching and zig-zags, 'Cover-stitches' on the bottom. The sleeves and hem are also coverstitched. Coverstitching is used for stretch garments so the thread wont break on the hem, sleeves etc when the garment is stretched, to put on etc. Also the coverstitch on the inside cleans the raw edge of the fabric, and on the neck rib it kinda squashes the overlocked on rib and cleans it up also adding more strength. Hope this helps

Peace. Ande

http://photobucket.com/albums/y278/andewhall/

[sarno]

thanks andewhall.

jay--how did you financially kickstart this operation? did you save the pennies, etc.? a loan? when you first dealt with the t company, did you buy in bulk or have you reached that stage yet? did you deal with them as a business and if so, what sort of protocol was there regarding proof of business intent, etc.? when you say you'll "dump 20K" is this your own money or has someone pledged support in the event market interest?

regards sweatshirts...if you go cut n sew, see if you can check out a helmut lang sweatshirt. it's a really nice cut, not for fat people like most of them are, but the arm is a bit more articulated, and the cuff a bit bigger so that it sits on the arm nicely, just at the base of the thumb.

Edited by sarno on Dec 7, 2005 at 05:00 PM

Edited by sarno on Dec 7, 2005 at 05:00 PM

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

Quote:

jay--stupid sewing question: is that double stitching on the neck and sleeves significantly more expensive than a single stitch? Also, is the stitch done in one pass or are there two passes? i have a margiela long-sleeve with the double stitch, i'm curious how it's done.

--- Original message by sarno on Dec 6, 2005 04:03 PM

Hey Sarno,

The stitching on tees like this is done with a coverstitch machine. The machine has twin needles and stitches two rows of topstitching and zig-zags, 'Cover-stitches' on the bottom. The sleeves and hem are also coverstitched. Coverstitching is used for stretch garments so the thread wont break on the hem, sleeves etc when the garment is stretched, to put on etc. Also the coverstitch on the inside cleans the raw edge of the fabric, and on the neck rib it kinda squashes the overlocked on rib and cleans it up also adding more strength. Hope this helps

Peace. Ande

--- Original message by andewhall on Dec 7, 2005 12:15 PM

Thanks for the help Andy. You explained it better than I ever could have. I'm still learning all of the details related to cut and sew. The full extent of my sewing skill is tacking in tags.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[Jay Allen]

Quote:

thanks andewhall.

jay--how did you financially kickstart this operation? did you save the pennies, etc.? a loan? when you first dealt with the t company, did you buy in bulk or have you reached that stage yet? did you deal with them as a business and if so, what sort of protocol was there regarding proof of business intent, etc.? when you say you'll "dump 20K" is this your own money or has someone pledged support in the event market interest?

regards sweatshirts...if you go cut n sew, see if you can check out a helmut lang sweatshirt. it's a really nice cut, not for fat people like most of them are, but the arm is a bit more articulated, and the cuff a bit bigger so that it sits on the arm nicely, just at the base of the thumb.

Edited by sarno on Dec 7, 2005 at 05:00 PM

Edited by sarno on Dec 7, 2005 at 05:00 PM

--- Original message by sarno on Dec 7, 2005 04:55 PM

I'm totally self financed. No loans yet but may get a line of credit if I develop enough business to warrant doing so. The money I've spent on equipment, studio, inventory, etc is just part of the story. Equally important is the length of time (about a year) that I've invested without making any significant money. It does start to hurt after a while!

I'm set up as a legitimate business with Fed ID number, etc. In terms of dealing with vendors it usually just takes having a Fed ID number in order to buy wholesale. I buy several hundred shirts at a time so I can get a decent price.

I'm pretty confident that it would take a minimum of 20K to get started in a cut and sew sweatshirt program. The development, travel, samples, etc doesn't come cheap. I'm hoping to produce a very high quality garment and that takes time, and good contacts. No.....I have no one pledging to support me in the event of market interest. I'm just lucky that my wife still supports me . When you are doing something different from the accepted trend it is difficult to find support. Lets face it....I'm a guy with no fashion experience.....working out of Portland, Maine. Who in their right mind would come knocking on my door with a bag full of money? If I get any traction at the Pool show I will be able to continue self funding this project. I've got plans for Sweatshirts, Belts, Bags, etc. A good friend of mine owns a foundry here in Maine. I'm developing some kick ass belt buckles that will be hand poured in sand molds....stone age technology, but amazing results.

The other mountain to climb is getting contacts in the fashion business. When I started I didn't know anyone....and really don't know many people now. This business is based as much on WHO you know as WHAT you know. Since I didn't know anyone, or anything, when I started it has been......to say the least....challenging.

Conceived and executed on the working waterfront of Portland, Maine. [email protected]

[sarno]

i think the belt idea sounds awesome, just a solid idea all around. decent accessories are so motherfuckin hard to come by, particularly belts (check out billykirk belts, fashion editors at GQ seem to like them a lot right now). i agree who you know counts for much. it depends on who you are. creating a persona is the fundamental step towards creating a brand. no one wants to wear something made by "some dude in Maine" but many might wear a "Jay Allen" t. the one thing going for you is a dissatisfaction with the choices that are out there. it will lead you towards something interesting...as opposed to the same old crap that gets schlepped on this site.

[ok]

here is a little info on cut/sew. i work with 2 factories in southern california. i too am in the cut/sew & discharge tshirt, etc. business. if you truly want to get involved in making cut and sew fleece (sweatshirts) i would say that you should have very solid distribution. at least 1,500-5,000 pieces per style. if you do convince a factory (cutters and sewers) and a fabric mill to work with you they are investing in you. if you go to pool for example and come back with a few hundred orders they are going to be pissed and not work with you. also, when you are buying fabric you are going to have to meet minimums and if you dont pay high fees.

i know it sounds brutal but these people are making money a nickle at a time. maybe you can find someone to work with. i wish you luck. and i know very well the lifestyle of working hard making lines and barely breaking even. we currently have 50 stores worldwide. at the end of the month the expenses just add up. especially in the high end market.

[sarno]

hm. ok, when you say you work with two factories, do you mean as a designer/maker of t's and sweats? Do you distribute your own items to other people's shops or do you also own the shops (like an in-house brand?). is it possible to find places that would do cut n sew work for smaller garment amounts? i assume that, for example, russell athletic or nike is going to have no problem here, and that will be reflected in the cost on the shelf. but what about, say, nice collective or trovata, who clearly don't make sweatshirts on the scale of the megabrands. are they paying more for the cut n sew? i assume they deal with the same factories as anyone else.

sorry, jay, hope this thread isn't going too far afield for you. the business end of this is interesting...

[haptronic]

1000-1500 minimum seems a huge amount, not sure about the states, but here in NZ you cn avoid that by using a small CMT [cut, make, trim] rather than a factory, or alternately find a sample machinist and get very small runs [if want to be exclusive, so big numbers aren't really the way to go]

If you don't mind the country of origin tags not being USA, why not try mexico, or even HK, lots of small companies here use fiji for cotton knits, as long as you source good fabric and get good drafting there is not much wrong with the finished product.

[ok]

im talking american production for small brands. one of my factories is small and will take all comers but you still have to deal with the fabric mill mins. trovata for example i know makes a lot of stuff in peru. peru is the new china/mexico. a lot of people are going over there. but also realize that trovata is way bigger than you realize. 1,500 pieces is no problem.

the problem with the fabric mills is that if you are buying small quantities a little at a time the fabric is slways coming offf different runs and the quality can be very different. plus you miss out on quantity breaks and have to pay set up fees.

im not trying yo discourage anyone. meerly giving my experience. basically look at it this way. tshirts are one thing. a commodoty item somewhat. but say a t shirt company has some success and then brings out an intricate cut and sew sweatshirt. not every store will carry the swet most likely. so you make samples and only get a hand full of orders. you either cancel the piece or produce them and cut your margin signifigantly.

for a company charging astronomical prices this is not too much of a worry. everyone has to figure out margins for their own business and also be realistic about the quantity they will sell.