Retail Prices in the U.S.A.---"I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A."

[kiya]

Okay. Sure, Levis were cheaper than the repros are. BUT- new 501s are not made like they used to be. Period. Things were made a lot differently in the 40's. Here's the quickest analogy I can make right now.

this is my bathroom:

Now, 60 years ago, this was a normal, routine bathroom. No big deal, right? You were having an apartment built, this was how a lot of bathrooms were built out. The price wasn't an arm and a leg. Fast forward to 2007. To get this kind of tilework done would cost an arm and a leg.

Think about a typical pair of shoes from the 40's, and how much an equal pair would be.

Bijan, your bathroom is beautiful...

And oddly enough it's the same EXACT tile that covers the floor at Self Edge from the 40's.. SE used to be a Barber Shop in the 40's to the early 70's.

Ok, so it's come full circle. Bijan's bathroom analogy is just like Self Edge selling denim to men in the late 50's that are buying jeans at Self Edge that they haven't seen since they were teenagers.

Get it? No? somehow it makes sense to me.. nevermind me, i think the indigo has seeped into my bloodstream.

nevermind that fact that i said that i wasn't going to reply to this thread again..

[TheGrapist]

Bijan's bathroom analogy is just like Self Edge selling denim to men in the late 50's that are buying jeans at Self Edge that they haven't seen since they were teenagers.

Get it? No? somehow it makes sense to me.. nevermind me, i think the indigo has seeped into my bloodstream.

nevermind that fact that i said that i wasn't going to reply to this thread again..

Sure does make sense. Especially when you factor in inflation from say, between 1947 to 1955 to 2007. Those Levis from that era are the same price as the repros of today!

And to add something further that I've been wanting to say since reading page one of this thread:

Of course a store in the US is going to be more expensive than ordering from Japan! In Japan, these brands are popular and well known! There are two, TWO! stores in the US that carry these jeans. And believe it or not, there isn't a huge market for these jeans here as compared to Japan.

I myself buy and sell clothes online. I buy stuff when it's on sale and sell them here or eBay or where ever for an acceptable price. It's somewhat analogous to what Kiya and Gordon does, they get their stuff at a "wholesale" cost (which is NOT the same wholesale cost as a Japanese retailer), and then sell them above their wholesale cost. It's a no brainer.

Now, what happens when I buy 4 pairs of jeans for $150 each and can only sell 3 immediately? I have to sit on that other pair until someone buys them. I already paid for them, and interest is accumulating on them. I'm out whatever money I spent on them, plus interest, until they're gone. Now, if I had a store, that was money that COULD have been spent on rent and utilities and that I can't use until I sell them, whenever I finally sell them.

Imagine instead of saying that with 4 jeans, it's with 400. Are you going to be able to pay your rent and other expenses if you're marking up only, say, 20% above your costs and keeping an overstock of 25%? Do the math, it just doesn't work.

I've been to BiG, and I've heard nothing but good things about SE. It pisses me off like nothing else to see a thread complaining about the "high prices" of selling a product in America that only caters to a very small segement of the market. These aren't basic Levi's we're talking about. These are jeans if you polled 100 people (even 100 that are into "designer denim") only a handful would know what you're talking about.

I applaud Gordon and Kiya for having the balls and taking the risks by opening their stores. Yes, you're going to save $10 to $30 by buying direct from Japan. But you're going to be missing out on so much (ability to exchange, advice from someone what speaks your language, the ability to get immediate advice on what to buy) buy doing that. IMO, the service is worth it. (Now, someone get cracking on making me a repro in a small size but with a super long inseam. 37" shrinks to 34", and that barely hits the floor when I wear them! )

[derdankhund]

^^exactly what i was saying about ten posts back...but much more fleshed out

[Blackplatano]

your whole post is unsupported conclusions, shitty premises and overall bad logic.

saying raw jeans will go out of style is like saying a white t-shirt will be uncool next month.

numbering the damn premises is not obvious enought for you?

and yea, a couple years ago raw denim WAS out of style. In fact, raw denim goes in and out of style like anything else. A couple years ago only your girlfriends father wore them. Just because they are worn at any given time does not mean they are fashionable.

[Dick Danger]

Fashion is for sheep.

[poly800rock]

numbering the damn premises is not obvious enought for you?

and yea, a couple years ago raw denim WAS out of style. In fact, raw denim goes in and out of style like anything else. A couple years ago only your girlfriends father wore them. Just because they are worn at any given time does not mean they are fashionable.

numbering a bunch of opinions doesn't make them facts

[fallen angels]

the first time i bought japanese denim was from kiya's store several months ago, i didnt know much and i bought a pair but then later i became uncertain about the style and i was able to go back and make an exchange for a pair that cost less . yesterday i went back with my lady to pick up her lindas, and he gave her my old store credit even though i didnt have my old receipt with me. every detail about that story is something you cant get from ordering on rakuten/take5. i've bought a couple jeans from Japan that i couldnt get from SE, but guess what? i had to try to try to sell most of them because they didnt fit how i wanted. so to me, the price i paid at SE was worth it. of course not everyone lives near one of these stores so (sorry) many of you wont be able to relate to me, i'm just trying to share a story to the people who seriously just treat SE like a fitting room. but do what you want im not trying to tell anyone what to do, i just think nothing beats the interaction between customer and store owner, to talk to someone who is into the same thing you are, figure out the perfect size, services, updates on upcoming arrivals, support the community, etc. = go home happy. if SE has something i want, i'll get it there.

Getting a deal is one thing, but c'mon, save some damn face.

</chinese>

word

In fact, raw denim goes in and out of style like anything else. A couple years ago only your girlfriends father wore them. Just because they are worn at any given time does not mean they are fashionable.

it doesnt go out of style if it's YOUR style, unless you're really all about fashion..

[thinkfilm28]

Wow!!! After reading this thread, I feel my head is about to explode.

[Sais]

this thread is full of unsupported conclusions, shitty premises and overall bad logic.

NO jeans discussed in SF are worth their price. $300 for a pair of jeans that takes $30 (or less) to make is ridiculous. Why?

1) They are raw.

Raw jeans require less effort to make than distressed jeans. This, in an ideal world would make raw jeans cheaper. Rawness should not be a selling point to drive up the price since in essence they are "unfinished".

2) Lacking details.

Most of the jap jeans are repros. they lack individuality, good hardware, details, or a lot of things that could potentially distinguish them. It does not take creativity to make those jeans. After all, they are just copies.

3) Construction

The construction on jap jeans is not the selling point. I have seen cheaper cheaps put together better. I would consider the construction average.

4) Original levi's were cheaper

I might not have any receipts from 1947, but my understanding is that jeans were used by the poor working class. Farmers, construction workers, etc. Old timers have told me that the original levi jeans (that the jap companies copy) were very afffordable when they were kids (1940's +). These are the same people that still think $50+ for a pair of jeans is alot of money. Since those original Levi's were the quality standard that the jap companies try to reproduce, it makes no sense that repros are way more expensive.

Why are the jap jeans so damn expensive?

Because people are willing to buy them. If you take the bussiness side out of the equation, A pair of dyed cotton trousers would no way be worth over $100.

Sevens and true religions are also not worth their price. That is probably the only sentence that SuFu would agree with me on. SuFu would probably argue that 7's and TR's are inferior because of the quality of the denim, etc. SuFu would say that marketing is what drives the price of mainstream jeans. SuFu would say that jap jeans are different.

Unfortunatly, SuFu doesn't realize that not marketing is a form of marketing. Yes, jap jeans have been fed to you in the same marketing sense as mainstream jeans. How? By you being conditioned by your peers in superfuture.com. Visiting superfuture is an extreamly good way of being conditioned. Why? Being exposed to the same community will eventually lead to you sharing believes with that community. So basically, people will start believing something just because "everybody" else believes it.

Don't believe me? Need some example?

1) zippers

People here like buttoms despite the convinience of zippers. Some people even admit but that they think zippers are more convinient. Others give LAME reasons for liking buttoms. They simply prefer buttom fly because others do.

2) Nudie

Nudie used to be hailed in SF. Great fit, good construction, good denim and overall quality. BLA BLA BLA. then all of a sudden some key members get tired of nudie and guess what. It suddenly sucks. Some say it's because it started to be too popular, but plenty of people have never seen nudies in person and have no real reason to think that it is mainstream,other than that they heard it on SuFu.

Also, popularity does not change the quality of jeans. So all the good qualities nudies had did not disappear just because your neighbor wears them now. This proves my point.

Eventually jap jeans will suffer the same fate as nudie and all of a sudden all the justifications for wearing stiff, generic looking jap jeans will disapear.

I like repros. That point might seem contradictory to this post, but i like them. They have a lot of good things going for it. But let's not forget that distressed denim exist for a reason.

I just realised this post went a little off topic from the original subject, but fuck it. Im not editing it right now, i have shit to do. Spelling be damned.

P.S I expect to be flamed since that's exactly what a group of deeply committed followers would do. So flame away, prove me right

Applaud this man.

[Sais]

You know I'm really lost on the price difference some people say its 10 to 30 some people say its 100. What is the real price difference?

[kiya]

You know I'm really lost on the price difference some people say its 10 to 30 some people say its 100. What is the real price difference?

It's closer to $400 to $600, quit now, you'll never be able to afford any of it.

[Blackplatano]

numbering a bunch of opinions doesn't make them facts

Was i suppose to site my sources? WTF!? is this the scientific american forum? We are talking about things that are subjective. Facts can not be subjective.

[cultpop 0217]

numbering the damn premises is not obvious enought for you?

and yea, a couple years ago raw denim WAS out of style. In fact, raw denim goes in and out of style like anything else. A couple years ago only your girlfriends father wore them. Just because they are worn at any given time does not mean they are fashionable.

first, raw denim has never really gone out of style.

second, you have no clue what you are talking about. take an economics class, open your own retail business and then die in a fire.

i could continue to poke holes in every single one of your points but it would be fruitless since everyone who knows anything around here already knows better.

Applaud this man.

i applaud his ignorance.

*applause*

bottom line: if you want to buy from BIG or selfedge, do it. if you want to get your stuff another way, and feel confortable doing so, go for it.

but dont come on here and make implications that gordon or kiya are gouging anyone. thats weak.

[Blackplatano]

first, raw denim has never really gone out of style.

second, you have no clue what you are talking about. take an economics class, open your own retail business and then die in a fire.

i could continue to poke holes in every single one of your points but it would be fruitless since everyone who knows anything around here already knows better.

i applaud his ignorance.

*applause*

bottom line: if you want to buy from BIG or selfedge, do it. if you want to get your stuff another way, and feel confortable doing so, go for it.

but dont come on here and make implications that gordon or kiya are gouging anyone. thats weak.

Take an economy class?

What makes you think i've never taken economy classes? I already have idiot.

You will continue to poke holes in every single one of my points? LLLLLOOOOOLLLLLL

To continue something, you have to have previously started. You did not poke any holes since all you did was say that i should take economics and die.

Your arguement makes no sense. lol

It's pathetic dude. The irony of you dismissing my post because of my "ignorance" and then responding with one of the most illogical and ignorant things i have read all day.

Take your fallacies elsewhere bitch.

[poly800rock]

this thread is full of unsupported conclusions, shitty premises and overall bad logic.

NO jeans discussed in SF are worth their price. $300 for a pair of jeans that takes $30 (or less) to make is ridiculous. Why?

1) They are raw.

Raw jeans require less effort to make than distressed jeans. This, in an ideal world would make raw jeans cheaper. Rawness should not be a selling point to drive up the price since in essence they are "unfinished".

2) Lacking details.

Most of the jap jeans are repros. they lack individuality, good hardware, details, or a lot of things that could potentially distinguish them. It does not take creativity to make those jeans. After all, they are just copies.

3) Construction

The construction on jap jeans is not the selling point. I have seen cheaper cheaps put together better. I would consider the construction average.

4) Original levi's were cheaper

I might not have any receipts from 1947, but my understanding is that jeans were used by the poor working class. Farmers, construction workers, etc. Old timers have told me that the original levi jeans (that the jap companies copy) were very afffordable when they were kids (1940's +). These are the same people that still think $50+ for a pair of jeans is alot of money. Since those original Levi's were the quality standard that the jap companies try to reproduce, it makes no sense that repros are way more expensive.

Why are the jap jeans so damn expensive?

Because people are willing to buy them. If you take the bussiness side out of the equation, A pair of dyed cotton trousers would no way be worth over $100.

Sevens and true religions are also not worth their price. That is probably the only sentence that SuFu would agree with me on. SuFu would probably argue that 7's and TR's are inferior because of the quality of the denim, etc. SuFu would say that marketing is what drives the price of mainstream jeans. SuFu would say that jap jeans are different.

Unfortunatly, SuFu doesn't realize that not marketing is a form of marketing. Yes, jap jeans have been fed to you in the same marketing sense as mainstream jeans. How? By you being conditioned by your peers in superfuture.com. Visiting superfuture is an extreamly good way of being conditioned. Why? Being exposed to the same community will eventually lead to you sharing believes with that community. So basically, people will start believing something just because "everybody" else believes it.

Don't believe me? Need some example?

1) zippers

People here like buttoms despite the convinience of zippers. Some people even admit but that they think zippers are more convinient. Others give LAME reasons for liking buttoms. They simply prefer buttom fly because others do.

2) Nudie

Nudie used to be hailed in SF. Great fit, good construction, good denim and overall quality. BLA BLA BLA. then all of a sudden some key members get tired of nudie and guess what. It suddenly sucks. Some say it's because it started to be too popular, but plenty of people have never seen nudies in person and have no real reason to think that it is mainstream,other than that they heard it on SuFu.

Also, popularity does not change the quality of jeans. So all the good qualities nudies had did not disappear just because your neighbor wears them now. This proves my point.

Eventually jap jeans will suffer the same fate as nudie and all of a sudden all the justifications for wearing stiff, generic looking jap jeans will disapear.

I like repros. That point might seem contradictory to this post, but i like them. They have a lot of good things going for it. But let's not forget that distressed denim exist for a reason.

I just realised this post went a little off topic from the original subject, but fuck it. Im not editing it right now, i have shit to do. Spelling be damned.

P.S I expect to be flamed since that's exactly what a group of deeply committed followers would do. So flame away, prove me right

even though you keep insisting you are right, you're statement is statements are still full of unsupported conclusions, shitty premises and overall bad logic.

I will go through the numbering system as well.

First off you have no clue what the value of the jeans are. Show me the quantitative numbers starting from production costs to final product of let's say Samurai since they're becoming bigger now. Not even saying this to be a dick, but to pull a simple number like $30 per pair to try and argue your point makes your "thesis" statement erroneous. You have no idea what from start to finish one pair costs and is worth.

1. Raw jeans. sure, no one would argue that raw jeans aren't cheaper than distressed. If they would they're idiots.

2.details - here's where i start to disagree. Lack of detail? seriously? have you seen a pair of Sugarcane Okinawa's? Mixed sugarcane and cotton thread, lined pockets, python patch, the fucking works. Have you seen a pair of Evisu's? Lack of detail there too? The handpainted gigantic diacock (significant branding here) says otherwise. Hardware? I've yet to see a recent pair of Levi's with donut buttons. 45rpm does sterling silver rivets. Shitty hardware?

3. construction - I don't know what you're comparing this standard to. But let's say denim weight and tearing. Something that weighs 21oz is going to be more resistant to ripping than say something that's 12oz. Simple good logic here.

4. Cost - When you take into consideration inflation of prices, of course now is going to be more expensive than some 70 years ago. I also think the farmer or i guess today's equivelent tradesman would consider $300 too much for jeans. But don't you also think it costs more NOW than THEN? That's like saying I should be able to buy coca cola at woolworth for $.01 TODAY.

I'm not going to argue your point on profits, no one is involved in business if they don't care about losing money.

This is where you start heavy on your opinions claimed as facts

1. point on zippers - I don't like zipper pants in general. Scared from something about mary. Lame reason for liking a zipper, i don't know. I've never had a button jam on me.

2. nudies did go down in quality. i bought a pair of RRDS in sep. of 2004. great jeans. bought another pair of RRDS in late 2005? The quality was lower. At least in my opinion. The denim seemed very different after washing from the 1st to 2nd pair. And not to nitpick, but the 1st pair i had had a backing to the nudie stitching which the 2nd pair did not. Not that it's a difference in quality per se, but there were differences in when they were $185 USD to $265 USD. Bought from the same place (famous friends).

[indigo_junkie]

I've had too many zippers break on me, no matter how much I've tried to baby them. I have never had buttons on jeans pop on me (although those tin ones on my cheapie STFs are looking a bit suspect). And plus, those little round wear fades on the front look nice.

As for this thread, I think it's pretty pointless. I would love the equivalent of BiG or SE in Australia. Then I wouldn't have to gamble on whether or not the jeans I ordered from Japan are going to fit or not. Getting to have the jeans, in your hands, on the day you purchase them is worth a premium, IMO. I've lost too many things in the mail, had too many credit card authorisation stuff-ups (leaving me stranded on a date once, not being able to pay for a meal), and then there's the freaking waiting for it to come. I've walked into Another, tried on three pairs of Imperials, paid CASH and walked out the store wearing them. If I could do that for any number of Japanese jeans such as Samurai etc... piece of mind is worth a lot.

[dasman989]

1) zippers

People here like buttoms despite the convinience of zippers. Some people even admit but that they think zippers are more convinient. Others give LAME reasons for liking buttoms. They simply prefer buttom fly because others do.

I like button fly cause it makes my package look bigger... need all the help i can get

:D:D:D

[Dogfarm]

I've had too many zippers break on me, no matter how much I've tried to baby them. I have never had buttons on jeans pop on me (although those tin ones on my cheapie STFs are looking a bit suspect). And plus, those little round wear fades on the front look nice.

As for this thread, I think it's pretty pointless. I would love the equivalent of BiG or SE in Australia. Then I wouldn't have to gamble on whether or not the jeans I ordered from Japan are going to fit or not. Getting to have the jeans, in your hands, on the day you purchase them is worth a premium, IMO. I've lost too many things in the mail, had too many credit card authorisation stuff-ups (leaving me stranded on a date once, not being able to pay for a meal), and then there's the freaking waiting for it to come. I've walked into Another, tried on three pairs of Imperials, paid CASH and walked out the store wearing them. If I could do that for any number of Japanese jeans such as Samurai etc... piece of mind is worth a lot.

Dam I keep getting sucked into looking at this thread and it has yet to be locked. I totally agree with this post. I WISH there was a place like Self edge, Big, blue green, etc. Even in the same province I lived in. Unfortunately Edmonton, Alberta has no such place maybe some day.... I feel your pain of NEVER being able to try on the jeans I am buying. For that reason alone the next shopping trip my wife and I are planning is San Fransisco.

[indigo_junkie]

I like button fly cause it makes my package look bigger... need all the help i can get

:D:D:D

+1. lol. Esp. with slimmer jeans.