NYC Unemployment

[ms. sally]

Despise where I work and want a little state funded break. I realize quitting negates unemployment benefits, but am curious about firing vs. layoffs and what exactly makes for denial of benefits.

Looking for 1st hand accounts of your experience on New York City Unemployment.

Also this thread can be haven for those currently on unemployment to share their joy and despair.

[DaBestSpoona]

Layoffs and firing are the same.

from what I've seen, your employer can be a jerk if they want to be and try to deny your unemployment. Typically they unemployment office will contact the employer for the reason for termination, and they can be jerks and say you stole or raped.

[RandR]

denial of benefits is only possible if you were fired for egregious misconduct - typically a criminal act including sexual harassment, etc etc.

Being laid off and fired are the same thing and both qualify you for unemployment.

The important thing is that your case file will be audited, and if the employer says that you did something deserving of having your benefits rejected, they have to prove it. most employers don't really care because their cost is nothing - the only cost upon firing/laying off is an increase in the corporate unemployment tax.

I run the HR and Finance departments at my company. Just hope you get laid off, and you'll be good - but I honestly feel like that's a bad idea in this economic climate.

[ms. sally]

So if fired then it can be challenged but they would need to provide proof of their reason? Laid-off is just a done deal guarantee of benefits?

Lets say their was no incident, work flow was not an issue, but people just didnt like me. Is not being liked a good enough reason of denial?

I'm trying to think of the ways I can sabotage myself enough to get fired/laid off but wont prevent me from collecting bene's.

[DaBestSpoona]

they could be jerks and deny your benefits and avoid taking any contact from the unemployment office just to be jerks and delay you receiving your unemployment.

[RandR]

they could be jerks and deny your benefits and avoid taking any contact from the unemployment office just to be jerks and delay you receiving your unemployment.

true, but then you could sue them pretty easily. The government gets pissed off at stuff like this because they make money when you are unemployed. The unemployment tax is what a company pays to the government for making someone unemployed.

ms. salty, you can be fired for any reason as long as the company has justification to do so. again, denial of unemployment benefits is largely related to criminal offences.

For example: we let go a girl because she wasn't doing her job. She was generally a terrible person because she acted like she was entitled to things when she wasn't. Think entry level Accounts Payable.

We gave her unemployment because we had to. Any company with employees numbering over a certain amount will be audited by their local EEO(equal employment office). The number varies based on certain laws - since we do govt. contract work, we only need 7 employees. Other companies, commercial ones, need more.

If a company is audited and the EEO finds that an employees was denied benefits just because the company wanted to be a dick, they get a hefty punishment. 50K + any wages/benefits that would have been earned + interest at LIBOR + 250 basis points(right now, anyways).

So, it just isn't worth it for a company to deny benefits for a capricious reason.

Again I would say keep your job. You don't want to be unemployed right now. Unemployment is hovering around 10% and it is not likely to change...unemployment benefits don't last that long and you will end up screwed at some point. Try to apply for other jobs so you can quit, seriously.

This is all from a mostly government contractor standpoint but I am reasonably certain(studying for the CPA right now) that it is the same for commercial companies as well.

[readytoignite]

disclaimer - this is all personal opinion and does not represent any views of current or past employers:

in the corporate world, the whole thing is designed around avoiding wrongful termination lawsuits.

nobody really uses the terms layoffs and firing anymore - the former translates to workforce reductions (dumping a bunch of employees because your stock just tanked)... this general category of putting people out of work for general financial purposes is called termination not for cause and allows for benefits, CORBA and sometimes includes a parachute package at the discretion of the company.

firing someone because they're a scrub is called termination for cause (i.e. the employee caused him/herself to get fired) - it's pretty rare and tough to do esp in bigger companies for salaried employees. you have to provide evidence of wrongdoing and if all they're doing wrong is being a scrub (not committing crimes/egregious misconduct or violation of basic terms of employment) generally your HR dept will make you document all the career counseling and specifics to prove you're not doing it for gender, race or personal reasons. because generally if you go through with it, there's no unemployment benefits and the person gets pissed off and tries to sue. this trail of evidence is what's used in court (or to forestall a lawsuit by showing them you did your homework). i am under the impression the process takes at least a year unless said scrub shoots themself in the foot.

anyway - if you're blatantly phoning it in, have a large enough team and cuts are made, you'll probably be on the list if everyone knows you're a duffer. but i agree the risk isn't worth it since it's generally a small world and you may need to rely on recommendations/networking from your peers/managers. also there's a monthly cap on employee benefits and they're only good for 6 months (12 if ny has extended this though no idea where they'd get the money from)

[ms. sally]

Last check NY had extended to a full 12, however NY Unemployment was in the red so who knows.

All of this has been helpful.

Obliged.

[lawless]

how bad is it right now? any idea when the ny employment rate will get better? might have to get a job when i get out there in 6 months. i'm talking minimum wage/retail whatever.