Whats the best way to tell Japanese denim from any other denim

[aspongeforknowledge]

New to the group and as well as the denim world. Just trying to get honest answers from very knowledgeable

people.

thanks for you help

[aspongeforknowledge]

I was told to look on the inside of the jean. Usually the weft yarns are dyed instead of keeping it white causing it to have an orange tint. Is this credible information?

[Corbin Law]

thats an iffy thing, many inferior denim brands, like gap, dye the inside of their jeans o recreate that orangy tint and comparing hap jeans to japanese high end denim doesnt really work out

chwa?

[aspongeforknowledge]

You read my mind. I have a friend who boasted that the gap used japanese denim for some of there 1969 pieces and that the only way to distinguish the real from the fake is the tint. Could you expose any other companies who use this method of dying weft yarns for the look

[eldave04]

how about check to see where they were made?

[wild_whiskey]

Denim that comes from any part of the world can have that "tint," although what you are referring to is not actually a tint, it's the lack of bleaching of the weft threads. They aren't naturally white–most companies have the threads bleached. Some do not, such as Nudie (RRDS) and those GAP jeans that you mentioned. The weft threads can of course be dyed after bleaching, but I've never seen it done in a pair of unwashed jeans.

There is no discernable way to determine whether or not a piece of denim is from Japan, except that if it's really nice, high quality denim, chances are that it's from Japan, since that is where most of the world's high end denim seems to originate from. No guarantee though, several other countries are also producing superlative denim.

Edited by wild_whiskey on Oct 23, 2005 at 12:10 PM

[ringring]

As Whiskey points out, tinted weft yarns have absolutely no bearing on the geographical origin of the denim.

Weft yarns can be tinted prior to weaving (many denim mills offer various articles with different tinted wefts) or the tinting can be applied after weaving (either by adding dye when garment washing or applying locally with a spraygun, brush or rag).

There's no sure-fire way to tell the country of origin of a denim just by looking at the fabric. You can make good educated guesses by looking at the fabric and brand (eg. if you are looking at a 'rare' Japanese brand of selvedge jeans, then there's a good probability of it being Japanese denim).

[Geowu]

I concur, a good way to guess, imo, if it is Italian denim is the presence of striations (nudie straight svens, dior homme, diesel, etc.).

[bigE501xx]

Hi All,

I design a denim collection for a living, so I might be able to clarify a few things (and muddy a few more).

First, there is no way to tell for sure where a particular denim fabric is from just by looking at it. There are just too many countries that have denim mills, and there are ove 12oo denim mills currently operating in the world today. However, it is possible for denim fanatics to tell the quality of a denim in 3 seconds or less.

Tinted denim. Faux vintage denim is all the rage right now and so there are a number of ways that denim is tinted. Here is a snapshot of the evolution of tinting:

-true vintage denim has unbleached white in both the fill, and even under the indigo dye of the warp.

-in the 70's, a lot of mills started adding a grey-blue sulphur dye under the indigo to decrease the amount of indigo needed and reduce costs for "student denim" and other lower priced programs

-over the years, many mills have experimented with dying the fill yards different colors, from ecru, to black,to bright colors

-in current times, tinting is added in any single or combination of the below:

fill yarns dyed

warp (indigo yarns) sulphur dyed under and/or over the indigo

fabrics are piece dyed after weaving but before cutting and sewing

garments are tinted in the wash process

garments made with sulphur dyed yarns are sprayed in specific areas with potassium permanganate to bleach

out only the sulphur dyes in certain areas so the cast of the indigo varies depending on the part of the jean

higher end denim is now often tinted in only specific areas by hand!

The only good way to tell if you are buying Japanese denim is to know something about the brand you are buying. For example, Evisu Kenebo and some Edwins are mostly produced in Japan, and use japanese denim ALMOST exclusively. Even Levi's produces a separate ultra-premium line for Asia only that is made in Japan. For American brands, very few use Japanese denim, and the few that do will definitely let you know! As an example, check out J Crew's premium denim line and Abercrombie's high end Ezra line.

As for striations, a large percentage or fashion denim now has this kind of look. It can be found in jeans everywhere from Walmart to Prada. This effect is actually mostly the result of the intentional uneven thick and thin of "slub" yarns that can be used in either or both directions of the fabric.

I hope this helps! If anyone has any other denim related questions, I'll be glad to help if I can.

Chas

[Geowu]

Thanks Chas.

I was talking however of this different kind of striation, I think it's only on Italian denim but I'm not sure.

Edited by Geowu on Oct 29, 2005 at 10:43 AM

[bigE501xx]

Hi Geowu,

Actually, we are talking about the same thing. If you look at the denim really closely, you can see that the lighter colored areas are where several of the thicker parts of the long pulse yarns randomly fall side by side.

Here in the USA this was originally called Japanese Character slub, as a few Japanese companies were the first to popularize this look. However, as far as I can remember, it was in fact a couple of the Italian mills that first started making this type of denim, and then it started showing up very soon thereafter in Japanese jeans, then it was duplicated by the better Hong Kong/China mills (then ,unfortunately, by some of the cheaper Chinese mills).

Not sure what brand it is in the photo, but looks like a great quality! The striations are very evenly distributed, and not too much white grin-through. Just curious- is this a selvage denim as well?

[Geowu]

Yes, it is, that's the Nudie Straight Sven produced with Italian selvage denim.