why is japan obsessed?

[Guest dontcaretoomuchforcrap]

alright, well excuse lack of knowledge or biases, but here it goes.

can someone explain the japan phenomenon?

i guess they latched on to stussy, and bape grew out of genious marketing tactics, but whats twith the obsession with nyc and streetwear.

supreme and all the nyc brands get more press than anything.

is it because of these magazines coming out, celebrities, or what?

you;d think that these brands would be more successful here, but all these usa brands will japanese stores?

sureme is more underground in nyc than japan, right? stussy is like gap there?

[My Pal the Crook]

Don't get it twisted, Gap is like Supreme, and Crate and Barrel is the New Bape over in Japan! 3 night/6 block Line ups for chinos and pasta strainers, that's my word!

[neawts]

Quote: and how did they become the technology leader anyways. cars, etc. they were a simple farming nation pre wwII, now their the most advanced, smartest nation?

Well, I wouldn't say they are the "smartest" nation, but I know what you mean.

However, it would take a long time to explain those questions. There are many books on the subject of Japan's history and culture.

As for the first post about fashion, well, I can't explain that either. Um, a mix of certain cultural tendencies and an advanced form of consumerism.

[obladi]

Yeah, it's probably just the difference in culture. We are just amazed because it is different then what we are used to. Like how some countries think coke a cola is like the ambrosia of soft drinks, while Americans have consistently connected the drink with the over weight.

Or maybe their stuff is better?

[superposition]

It's been a pretty known fact that the Japanese know how to take something and make it better.

[djrajio]

This thread is bs. How come Americans were all up on GAP 3-4 years ago!? Then A&F. Then something else. Japanese just place more emphasis on quality and outer appearence compared to their Western counterparts. That's why Japanese brands are so pimp because it has quality written all over them. They never skim on production quality on their goods. Plus, they are amazing at re-interpreting Western influences as well and making it there own. Why is it that Taiwanese, Cantonese, and Koreans are always up on Japanese fashion's nuts? Because the rest of Asia can't make anything their own and create a cultural phenomenon. Japanese are creative mother-fuckers. They just explode with all these crazy ideas that sometimes are just nuts?! Rei Kuwakubo, Junya Wanatabe, Issey Miyake, etc. These high-fashion designers are always pushing the envelope of what is considered "fashion". That's why they are so dope. That's also why Japanese dress better than Americans. The average American can't dress worth shit. But then again, the majority don't give a fuck cuz they know American still kicks the ass of any other nation in the world. Perhaps arm-race superiority has made us lazy...ok I'm just rambling now...

[djrajio]

Plus, have u ever even been to Japan. First go and experience. Talk to people. Make some friends. Then ask questions.

[superposition]

Man some of the stuff I bought in Japan...brought em back to Canada to wear... and ppl say I look gay.

Ok no offence to all the gay community out there. lol

[Bing Bing]

I think part of the reason Japanese are so fashion/trend obsessed is b/c traditionally Japanese culture looks down upon individuals. The old saying "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down" was so prevalent for so many years that upon the influence of western culture, many wanted to break out of the old fashion saying. The easiest way is through fashion. Maybe that's why so many Japanese are always looking for the next 'cool' brand. They are all trying to break that mold, but ironically, many now dress the same. If you know anything about Bape, Nigo basically took advantage of this scenario. 'A Bathing Ape' comes from an old Japanese idiom, 'to bathe in lukewarm water'--describing the sense of being too comfortable. That's how Nigo described, and mocked Japanese youth when, in fact, all those Japanese youth were trying to break the old mold by wearing his ultra exclusive, ultra underground brand eventually all looking the same. So, in the end, I guess the old saying could be modified to, "all the nails are pulled out to match the un-hammered one."

Damn, that's the most i've written since i've graduated.

I'm so self-conscious...

[andewhall]

Quote:

This thread is bs. How come Americans were all up on GAP 3-4 years ago!? Then A&F. Then something else. Japanese just place more emphasis on quality and outer appearence compared to their Western counterparts. That's why Japanese brands are so pimp because it has quality written all over them. They never skim on production quality on their goods. Plus, they are amazing at re-interpreting Western influences as well and making it there own. Why is it that Taiwanese, Cantonese, and Koreans are always up on Japanese fashion's nuts? Because the rest of Asia can't make anything their own and create a cultural phenomenon. Japanese are creative mother-fuckers. They just explode with all these crazy ideas that sometimes are just nuts?! Rei Kuwakubo, Junya Wanatabe, Issey Miyake, etc. These high-fashion designers are always pushing the envelope of what is considered "fashion". That's why they are so dope. That's also why Japanese dress better than Americans. The average American can't dress worth shit. But then again, the majority don't give a fuck cuz they know American still kicks the ass of any other nation in the world. Perhaps arm-race superiority has made us lazy...ok I'm just rambling now...

--- Original message by djrajio on Sep 15, 2005 09:43 PM

"But then again, the majority don't give a fuck cuz they know American still kicks the ass of any other nation in the world."

Eeeeehhhhhhh??????? Can you please explain

[djrajio]

Quote: Man some of the stuff I bought in Japan...brought em back to Canada to wear... and ppl say I look gay.

Ok no offence to all the gay community out there. lol

Haha. Very true. THe social mores of what constitutes masuline and feminine is very blurred in Japan. Guys tend to dress more feminine and women are attracted to it. Partly I think due to the fact that much of pre-WWII era was very very machismo. You definitely couldn't pull off a lot of the looks in japan even in the gay community here in America.

[djrajio]

Haha. I definitely wrote too fast on that thought. Basically what I mean is that Americans take too many things for granted because we feel intitled. We eat bigger meals, we want bigger cars, we grow bigger and become obese. And basically, this gluttony that surrounds has prevaded into our fashion well being as well. Just look at general retailers' trends of how they've had to "re-adjust" the waist line sides of American men trousers because Americans are too fat. Its everywhere. Go to any other first-world country and such luxuries aren't available. You have to work to make yourself look good. If you're too fat, you lose weight. Ok, now I really don't know what the fuck my point is. Haha.

[edwin]

consumerism is different in different places. does it really matter?

[frogeyes]

Quote: But then again, the majority don't give a fuck cuz they know American still kicks the ass of any other nation in the world."

...it does? you have been watching the news in the last few years right?

[whynotmakeboth]

coke is for fatties? huh?

[boystory]

Quote:

Quote: But then again, the majority don't give a fuck cuz they know American still kicks the ass of any other nation in the world."

...it does? you have been watching the news in the last few years right?

--- Original message by frogeyes on Sep 15, 2005 10:37 PM

it kicks ass in the sense that it's *america*, yknow?

[darknworn]

japanese quality manufacturing methods owes its beginning largely to an american, dr. edwards deming. he taught a series of classes to japanese executives, managers and engineers after WWII about quality control that fundamentally changed the way they manufacture goods. toyota's reputation today has its origin in this man of genius. the fact that the highest manufacturing award today in japan is the deming prize is no coincidence.

when you put good work ethics from the japanese culture together with good engineering methods, you get the japanese phenomenon.

"God is Dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" - God

[dole scum]

Japan seems to have lots of fashion magazines, such as 'Cool' and 'Fruits' that are all about trends. There seems to be a big market for this type of publication. Everyone just seems to be more interested in their appearance than in the Europe and the US. Urrrr, You can always spot American tourists at airports due to their huge waistlines and oversized clothes. But obesity is becoming a big problem in the UK aswell.

Was Coca-Cola originally produced as a hangover cure?

[dr zeus]

japan is basically up there in the devoped world, they're now not manufacturing as much because their infrastructure has increased meaning workers have higher wage brackets, material costs etc. more and more stuff is being produced in china because its hella cheap and they want to undercut everyone but they've got massive aspirations in terms of being like the US. plus they've got loads of nuclear shiz which scrares me.

this is a massive generalisation but here goes. ive only been to tokyo once in my life but they OBSESS about stuff. the NY supreme staff are like celebrities over there (no, im not joking), when they find out that your european or whatever its "james jabbia this blah blah". its crazy. i liked it but i didnt see Scarlett Johansson so i came home. hahaha

"You brought the fucking Pomeranian bowling?"

"I haven't brought it bowling...I didn't rent it shoes, I'm not buying it a fucking beer, it's not taking a fucking turn..."

[CactusArmy]

It's true that the japanese society discourages and even berates individuality but it's that kinda pressure and grinding that produces those crazy geniuses as mentioned before like Rei Kawakubo, Issey and the like. I think it just makes them angrier and more hungry to push their ideas and also to innovate.

[dole scum]

Grrrrr, what do people think of the Peter Saville/Supreme collaboration. I do not see how the 'Unknown Pleasures' sleeve relates to Supreme. It just seems really out of context -placing it on the Supreme decks and t-shirts. l was in the Pentagram office this week and two Japanese tourists just started wondering around, maybe its a tourist attraction for young Japanese trendies.

[Yakboy Equals Nurturer]

Quote: what do people think of the Peter Saville/Supreme collaboration. I do not see how the 'Unknown Pleasures' sleeve relates to Supreme

Thought it was pretty fucking lazy myself. Would've expected Saville to come up with something new. My guess is Supreme just licensed the record covers and stuck them on tees and decks without any significant new design involvement from Saville himself.

Re: America 'kicking the ass of any other nation in the world’...assuming that this was said seriously...this is the kind of clueless jingoistic horseshit that you get from Americans who have never lived anywhere else. America’d be a better place with less of them in it.

[champagne_bubblebath]

Quote: and how did they become the technology leader anyways. cars, etc. they were a simple farming nation pre wwII, now THEY'RE the most advanced, smartest nation?

Not quite. America still cultivates 17 of the world's top 20 universities, thus producing most of the world's intellectual talent. Japan has one school on that list. It's not a matter of 'smarts', but rather of work ethic. Most Americans are just lazy.

Edited by champagne_bubblebath on Sep 16, 2005 at 09:22 AM

[djrajio]

Quote: America still cultivates 17 of the world's top 20 universities, thus producing most of the world's intellectual talent. Japan has one school on that list. It's not a matter of 'smarts', but rather of work ethic.

I'm assuming that you are referring to the Shanghai Jiao Tong University Academic Ranking of World Universities 2005 that was recently cited in the Economist.

Personally I think the ranking is pretty suspect:

World Rank Institution

1 Harvard Univ

2 Univ Cambridge

3 Stanford Univ

4 Univ California - Berkeley

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)

6 California Inst Tech

7 Columbia Univ

8 Princeton Univ

9 Univ Chicago

10 Univ Oxford

11 Yale Univ

12 Cornell Univ

13 Univ California - San Diego

14 Univ California - Los Angeles

15 Univ Pennsylvania

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison

17 Univ Washington - Seattle

18 Univ California - San Francisco

19 Johns Hopkins Univ

20 Tokyo Univ

Berkeley ranked 4th? I know its a great public school but no way is it better than Oxford, Yale, University of Pennsylvina, or Princeton. Frankly the ranking criteria and weights are HEAVILY skewed to favor universities that have stellar acaemic and reserach performence including the number of Nobel Prices and Fields Medels produced and the number of researchers and articles published in Nature and Science publications. The ranking doesn't even take into account other factors like class sizes, quality of teaching, quality of life, NON science/engineering discplines, etc. Frankly, its bogus and this is coming from the mouth of a Stanford alum. I have many friends from Tokyo University and they are brilliant. So I'd wager is a combination of worth ethic and "world intelletual talent". And even as an American, I agree: Americans are lazy. We take things for granted. But I still stand by my statement from before: America kicks the ass of every other country in the world. Its the best country in the world. No other country gives the same opportunities to people that have the desire to achieve what they want. All it takes is hard work and discpline.

Edited by djrajio on Sep 16, 2005 at 09:41 AM

[darknworn]

Quote:

Quote: America still cultivates 17 of the world's top 20 universities, thus producing most of the world's intellectual talent. Japan has one school on that list. It's not a matter of 'smarts', but rather of work ethic.

I'm assuming that you are referring to the Shanghai Jiao Tong University Academic Ranking of World Universities 2005 that was recently cited in the Economist.

Personally I think the ranking is pretty suspect:

World Rank Institution

1 Harvard Univ

2 Univ Cambridge

3 Stanford Univ

4 Univ California - Berkeley

5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)

6 California Inst Tech

7 Columbia Univ

8 Princeton Univ

9 Univ Chicago

10 Univ Oxford

11 Yale Univ

12 Cornell Univ

13 Univ California - San Diego

14 Univ California - Los Angeles

15 Univ Pennsylvania

16 Univ Wisconsin - Madison

17 Univ Washington - Seattle

18 Univ California - San Francisco

19 Johns Hopkins Univ

20 Tokyo Univ

Berkeley ranked 4th? I know its a great public school but no way is it better than Oxford, Yale, University of Pennsylvina, or Princeton. Frankly the ranking criteria and weights are HEAVILY skewed to favor universities that have stellar acaemic and reserach performence including the number of Nobel Prices and Fields Medels produced and the number of researchers and articles published in Nature and Science publications. The ranking doesn't even take into account other factors like class sizes, quality of teaching, quality of life, NON science/engineering discplines, etc. Frankly, its bogus and this is coming from the mouth of a Stanford alum. I have many friends from Tokyo University and they are brilliant. So I'd wager is a combination of worth ethic and "world intelletual talent". And even as an American, I agree: Americans are lazy. We take things for granted. But I still stand by my statement from before: America kicks the ass of every other country in the world. Its the best country in the world. No other country gives the same opportunities to people that have the desire to achieve what they want. All it takes is hard work and discpline.

Edited by djrajio on Sep 16, 2005 at 09:41 AM

--- Original message by djrajio on Sep 16, 2005 09:35 AM

i agree. where're Indian Institute of Technology, Georgetown, etc.,.?

how did UCSD and UCLA make it on the list? i can think of another 20 schools that are of higher quality.

these lists are so subjective they're not even worth reading...unless you went to one of the schools.

"God is Dead" - Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is Dead" - God

[giantreptile]

no more obsessed than we are. they are just a much smaller country, so it's more concentrated; hence, the perception.

[adsurgo]

what schools we have doesnt mean anything.

[champagne_bubblebath]

^ individually, no. collectively, yes.

[adsurgo]

we have more people, more space, etc. of course well have more high end schools. our schools really dont mean anything at all.

[Yakboy Equals Nurturer]

Quote: America kicks the ass of every other country in the world. Its the best country in the world. No other country gives the same opportunities to people that have the desire to achieve what they want. All it takes is hard work and discpline.

The notion that America is an egalitarian land of opportunity where anyone can 'make it' based solely on merit is a myth that I'm amazed anyone buys anymore (and even if it were true, individual achievement as a metric for a country's 'greatness' is as dubious and subjective as attempts to rank countries in the first place). Hard work and discipline (not to mention talent and ability) will serve an individual far less well in the US than money and connections. Dump the Ayn Rand books and go live in the real world for a while.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy to live and work here: there are a lot of things about America that are great. But I'm under no illusions that I would have as good of a life as I have if I had come from nothing and just worked hard.

Edited by Yakboy Equals Nurturer on Sep 16, 2005 at 02:38 PM