not denim, but cool as shit

[cheapmuthafukr]

wanted to show some pics of these... they look old but im not too sure about the age. vintage work pants, no belt loops, one back pocket, back cinch, button fly. about twice as heavy as most of my jeans. paid 5$. have to say one of my favorite things about these is how the ingrown dirt has formed whiskers across the lap. cant see it too well in the photos, but they are definatly visable while wearing them.

Edited by cheapmuthafukr on May 10, 2006 at 05:49 AM

Edited by cheapmuthafukr on May 10, 2006 at 06:46 AM

[Paul T]

Any tags or clues as to maker? The back pocket design looks a bit like Can't Bust Em, who were early rivals to Levi's. They could be very old; without belt loops, if they were denim I'd date them as pre-30s, but it's alwasy possible they could be an archaic design, produced much later.

I like 'em...

[mizanation]

how do you find this stuff, cheap mofo? those are super dope.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[cheapmuthafukr]

no branding. tag inside just says laundered, washing instructions, nad made in usa.

If you've lost your faith in superfuture, Oh the end won't be long

Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it, And that would be wrong

I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling

Back into my bad old ways

And it chars my heart to always hear you calling

Calling for the good old days

Because there were no good old days

These are the good old days

[Whodinihimself]

those are killer....no idea who made them or when theyre from...but they cant be older than 1891...cos theyre riveted...and Levi's had a patent on riveted pants up until then...But belt loops became fashionable in the early 1920's...so....You could probably say that these pants are from sometime between 1891 - 1930...nice

[cheapmuthafukr]

gotta love thrift stores...

If you've lost your faith in superfuture, Oh the end won't be long

Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it, And that would be wrong

I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling

Back into my bad old ways

And it chars my heart to always hear you calling

Calling for the good old days

Because there were no good old days

These are the good old days

[superchunk]

Paul T,

Do you know when they stopped making Can't Bust Em' jeans?

CMF, Great pants BTW.

[cheapmuthafukr]

about to be mizanations...

If you've lost your faith in superfuture, Oh the end won't be long

Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it, And that would be wrong

I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling

Back into my bad old ways

And it chars my heart to always hear you calling

Calling for the good old days

Because there were no good old days

These are the good old days

[mizanation]

...and a pair of redline 501s (that are too small for me) are about to be cheap mofo's.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[Paul T]

Can't Bust Em were bought by Lee, around 1944; they continued producing their most popular jeans - partiuclarly the black ones, Frisko jeens - in their own factories for a number of years, then eventually got subsumed into a Lee sub-brand.

oh, by the way, for those work pants, the fact they're one pocket is another indication they're pretty old. I too would think they're post 1890s, but plenty of manufacturers produced riveted pants, infringing Levi's patents, outside of California, which was Levi's main - or perhaps sole - market before 1890. JC Penney sold Levi's Koveralls throughout the US, but not the 501.

Edited by Paul T on May 10, 2006 at 12:11 PM

[Whodinihimself]

Good points Paul T!!... The one back pocket does indicate that they should be quite old...Levi's didnt introduce back pockets until 1901...most other workware makers followed suit within the next 5-10 years.......and the fact that they have no descerning tags or other obvious pieces of identification could very well mean that they were created pre-1891...so that they could not be identified as infringing on Levis copyright.....good thinkin man!

[cheapmuthafukr]

thanks for the info. if i was more of a collector id keep em, but i perfer to wear my clothes, and these are a bit too big.... hence the trade for a pair of redline 501s, which ive wanted to get a hold of for a while now.

If you've lost your faith in superfuture, Oh the end won't be long

Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it, And that would be wrong

I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling

Back into my bad old ways

And it chars my heart to always hear you calling

Calling for the good old days

Because there were no good old days

These are the good old days

[mizanation]

Quote:

Good points Paul T!!... The one back pocket does indicate that they should be quite old...Levi's didnt introduce back pockets until 1901...most other workware makers followed suit within the next 5-10 years.......and the fact that they have no descerning tags or other obvious pieces of identification could very well mean that they were created pre-1891...so that they could not be identified as infringing on Levis copyright.....good thinkin man!

--- Original message by Whodinihimself on May 10, 2006 12:41 PM

are you frickin' serious? pre 1891? paul t, what's your guestimate?

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[Paul T]

It's not denim, so I don't know this field too well. My guess would be that these were old-fashioned when they were made, and they're most likely 1900-1918. But there's no profound reason they couldn't be earlier. They're not dissimilar to a couple of very early Levi's items, including their earliest riveted pants - there's an example in a rust colour in the Levi's archives, or Levi's Spring Bottom Pants, which were a bit more shaped and up-market. I'm guessing the fabric is a cotton duck - which was the other finish in which you could get early Levi's, it's just that denim proved more popular.

You would probably get a much better idea if you found a fabric expert who could look at the construction and sewing. If I could look at better pix of these I could make a better guess. Even things like the type on the label could give more clues, or whether it says Union Made on them etc.

I have looked at the 1880s Levi's from their archives in the flesh, and most of their early stuff, as well as early Can't Bust Em and Boss Of The Road, so I have some first hand knowledge, but the fact it's not denim opens it up to a wider range of manufacturers so it's harder to be definitive. There will be more general clothing and costume experts who could make a much more informed guess than I could.

[mizanation]

i appreciate your info paul. when i get these, i will post up some detailed pictures. maybe somebody out there can help us out. thanks!

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[cheapmuthafukr]

miz... looks like youre getting a damn good deal. congrats.

anyone know what these may be worth?

If you've lost your faith in superfuture, Oh the end won't be long

Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it, And that would be wrong

I've tried so hard to keep myself from falling

Back into my bad old ways

And it chars my heart to always hear you calling

Calling for the good old days

Because there were no good old days

These are the good old days

Edited by cheapmuthafukr on May 10, 2006 at 02:06 PM

[mizanation]

thanks, man. i'm gonna treat them like a 115 year-old girlfriend.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[Whodinihimself]

hey CMF, are they selvage?

and if you could take some close up pics of the rivets, cinch buckle, pocket material and inside stitching it might help us determine an age...

[mizanation]

whodini, i will take the pics when i receive the pants.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

Edited by mizanation on May 10, 2006 at 06:33 PM

[YoungPunch]

Nice pants! Could be 1800s or early 1900s I would guess. Interesting point about levis making cotton duck versions of their earlier styles as well as denim. Heres some 1880 warehouse/ duckdigger pants that look kinda similar with one back pocket and cinch-back w/ suspender buttons:

http://www.ware-house.co.jp/index.php?page=item&ic=228

Edited by YoungPunch on May 10, 2006 at 07:37 PM

[Paul T]

THose Warehouse are very similar to the Leiv's I mentioned - same fabric - they had a similar rust duck workpant with one pocket, and spring bottom (boot cut) pants which had pocket styling that was almost identical. I suspect the Warheouses are based on the LEvi's designs.

These pants are most likely an obscure maker, but I do have some Can't Bust em brochures from the 1910s, I'll check to see if they have anything smilar - they did have similar pocket stitching at a later point, but could have had it earlier too. The reason I did suggest 1900-1910 or so is that Can't Bust Em's jeans were old-fashioned, and that other small makers often kept on archaic styles.

Worth? Well, if they were denim or Leiv's they would be worth a fortune. These pants are not far off the age of the nevada Mine Levi's that fetched $40,000. (the cotton duck ones Levi's were probably worth a tenth of that, and obscurer makes are worth a fraction of the LEvi's price). With these, there's no established market so I'd be guessing, I think if I saw these in a shop I might punt $100 but wouldn't take a big risk. The only way to know for sure is to put em up on evilbay.

Edited by Paul T on May 11, 2006 at 02:12 AM

[Serge d Nimes]

The rivets look like they are alloy, I think we need to look at them to gauge the age of the pants. I think if they were really old they would be flat and hammered like those on Levi's through the 50's.

Also, I bet they are horse riding breeches.

Carpe Denim! (not the jean brand silly!)

[Paul T]

Mmm, good point. I've seen similar rivets like these on early 20s jeans - again, Can't Bust 'Em - but don't remember seeing them on anything pre 1905.

[mizanation]

thanks for your help guys, your knowledge is outstanding.

don't know what i will do with them. maybe i will use them as a pattern to make some new workpants. i would like to determine an approximate age though. when i get them, i will definitely post some detailed pictures. should get them by monday.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[jaguar_shoes]

this post reminded me, my sister bought me these levi's workpants from a store in portsmouth (UK), they've been sat in my wardrobe for the past 2 years, their a 32X32 and i wear a 30X32, so they're not use to me, twisted seams, cinch back, loose fit, never worn, never bothered sticking them on ebay cos i dunno if id get much for them. anyone wanna take em off my hands?

http://img278.imageshack.us/my.php?image=levisfront3am.jpg

http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=levisback8ux.jpg

[Paul T]

Re Can't Bust Em, here's a current eBay pair. They have the cross pocket stitching, and you can see their rivets. This pair is way overpriced, I reckon (maybe wishful thinking) and they're post-war, not prewar.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8420439282&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1

[mizanation]

just got the workpants.

unfortunately, i don't think they are that old at all. a dead giveaway is "machine wash warm" on the tag (also the tag is in perfect condition which doesn't even happen with jeans from the 80s). the denim is very heavy and in good condition. i'll probably give it a good warm wash with a decent detergent to get the dirt off.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com