Miss Van in Barci

[Persia]

Don't let Mama slap you.

www.mamaclothing.com

[Superdutch]

Can someone tell me what the story is with Miss Van?

Is she the same person as Fafi or is someone biting someone else's style?

[Persia]

Yo, Miss Van is the original. Fafi was Miss Van's understudy back in Paris and, by many accounts, borrowed a great deal of Van's shit. Unfortunately, Fafi is a media hound while Van keeps it undercover so everyone thinks Fafi created the style.

Don't let Mama slap you.

www.mamaclothing.com

[TragicBliss]

"Understudy."

Hah! I love it. So Victorian!

http://www.tragicbliss.com

[Superdutch]

Thanks Persia,

That clears it up. If it's true, that makes Fafi just a little lame, as i have never seen any other artists getting up and catching fame when their style is such a carbon copy of someone else's!

I think in the old days that was called TOY!

[TragicBliss]

Ohh let's not hate. Fafi is rad rad too. They're both from Toulouse in Paris. It's all love.

http://www.tragicbliss.com

[KEERST]

Miss Van is dope. Fafi is dope.

I have miss van art in my bathroom and fafi toys in the kitchen.

Both are lovely.

[Persia]

Yo KEERST. I agree. Gabriella picked up the Fafi joints and a piece from Miss Van.

Don't let Mama slap you.

www.mamaclothing.com

[rabbitpunch]

beautiful work... so dirty and uncomfortable in an understated way

[onehundredyen]

Fafi is seems to be a bitter !~

[silvercloud]

Hi Persia and Supertalkers,

Thanks for sharing the pics and sentiments.

I'm a friend of Miss Van's and I have to set the record straight that there was never an understudy-type situation with Fafi. They are not friends and never had any type of relationship in the past.

A similar rumour was circulating that Tilt had taught Fafi to paint like Miss Van, but I cannot and will not confirm this hearsay.

There is a massive distinction between influence/inspiration and straight up biting/stealing. It's difficult for some people to have a strong opinion about Miss Van vs. Fafi, simply because most folks were exposed to Fafi's work long before they found Miss Van. I'm happy that people are coming around and recognising the difference and showing respect to the original.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone here, as you have all said nice things. When people say things like "I like both" or "It's all good", you're basically saying you don't really have an opinion at all. What I'm trying to say is, put yourself in Miss Van's situation. Imagine spending years honing your craft and working your ass off only to have some toy come along and not only rip you off, but go full on and hire PR and fly around the world to beat you to the punch. It's beyond disrespectful, vicious, and absolutely heartless. And knowing what I know, I would add that it was a calculated career path.

There's no mystery as to why Miss Van left Toulouse for Barcelona. It is most certainly NOT all love there.

To add insult to injury, imagine finally getting out to the USA and having people continuously calling you Fafi? I was there, on every occasion, and it sucks. I can't blame the people saying it, they're misinformed. There is only one person to be angry with as far as I'm concerned.

It might be a good assumption that Miss Van wants to keep undercover, but remember that money is a huge factor in whether you get ahead or get left behind in this world.

Massive respect to Vanessa for keeping her chin up, keeping on and allowing time to vindicate her.

There is more to the story than I can share here, so I will leave it at that.

Persia, you are in SF, yes? Did you spot the pieces near Fifty24SF and about town four months ago?

[Persia]

Yo, Silvercloud.

Thanks for the clarity. I only hear bits and pieces from people here and there. We saw the Iguapop show the day after it opened. Loved it. Miss Van's the shit, Mama would love to work with her.

Anyway, I saw her piece next to 5024, if I remember correctly it was a few doors down.

Hope all is well and best wishes to you and Vanessa.

Don't let Mama slap you.

www.mamaclothing.com

[Bea Earlton Park]

Opinions are like an...we all have one and here is mine.

Miss Van craft is Top notch a TOTAL TECHNICIAN. Miss Vans girls look pretty but have PUG DOG faces and have very regimented poses, very cold. (Think RUSH, may day parade, or the Jeopardy Club back in HS.)

FAFIs craft is lacking but LET ME TELL YOU her figures are alive and very excitingly sexy, candy color dreamy and very CUTE. ( Think Candypants, Valentines day, or Friday night school dance)

I don't know these ladies and am basing my opinion on having been exposed to their art for the last 7 yrs. in magazines, the streets of the world and the web.

Sorry but FAFI speaks to my FUN side of the brain unlike the Missuss.

Bea.

In packs we hunt for you and yours.

[frogeyes]

They are both foxy.

[Bea Earlton Park]

Yeah, seen pics of them around and you are correct Froggy the two ladies are natural beauties.

Bea.

In packs we hunt for you and yours.

[futureofstyle]

I have to agree with "Bea Earlton Park" on his statement about the difference between the 2 artists I personally preffer the look of Fafi's characters, multiple facial gestures, and poses, ect..

Hi i'm just your average newbie chillin on supertalk!

[silvercloud]

Thanks everyone for sharing.

Persia, have you seen the Fornarina collaborations with Miss Van? HOT!

Of course, more people are going to like Fafi's girls because she is catering to a more commercial audience.

Bea, my reply had less to do with the differences between the two artists and more with the issue of the similarities. More specifically with the issues of biting, lack of integrity, and opportunistic shamelessness as opposed to honest-to-god creativity from the heart, without stepping on others to get ahead.

Fafi's girls are deliberately more "sexy", but this is relative to the viewer. They certainly would be considered to be more sexy by conventional western standards standardized by straight men. But just how, exactly, are they more sexy than Miss Van's girls? Because Fafi's girls' tits are perkier and larger with nipples like pacifiers? Because they appeal to western convention and popular culture? Because they are inviting, sexually, with their puckering lips? This representation of sex appeal along with the use of brighter colors and other (minor) differences are necessary for Fafi to distinguish herself from Miss Van. Without these elements and Fafi's lack of technical ability, it would be difficult to distinguish the two.

Miss Van didn't have a career agenda when creating her characters and her world. In my opinion, Fafi takes major elements of Miss Van's work and manipulates them to appeal to a larger audience without regard to the consequence of her actions, ie: Kill Your Idols at any cost. No respect whatsoever. It's crass commercialism and I don't find it to be the fine art it's pretending to be. I'm not saying that Fafi doesn't make art, but it is less art than it is a money making, fame whore scheme.

I'm not dissing anyone's opinion on why you like one more than the other. You're speaking of the end result without regard to the history, and that's fine in itself. Those comments have nothing to do with what I was addressing earlier in this thread. Yes, everyone has an opinion, and while I have mine, I also have some facts.

I'm just defending my statements prior while countering the popular consensus that sexy & fun = better. I don't think that Miss Van's girls are any less sexy or fun at all. And I think this discussion detracts from the fact that Fafi would not be doing what she does without totally biting Miss Van to begin with.

Besides, the whole reason I made any comment at all was to bring some facts to the people who asked. And you don't have to know either of these ladies personally to see that one is ripping off the other. I knew this long before I befriended Vanessa...

Bea, please don't take what I have to say as a personal attack. I respect your view, but I also have mine. I'm not saying you're wrong for your opinion, but I very much disagree with it.

Peace.

[mama]

Yeah...the Fornarina joints are hot.....a little heavy of the price but great.

come to mama

http://www.mamaclothing.com

[Guest]

Silvercloud. Thank you for your comments on my opinion. Wouldn't it be the bestest if we could go back in time and right this wrong ! If you find a way to time travel for this cause let us know because Im sure there are many artist out there that believe they have been wronged. ( and not just bested by more talented individuals.) that would love to make the trip.

Not being an ass here just that if you look at art movements thru-out history and just the overall snapshot that is street art and its "crew" mentality. There have always been family and regional styles.

You would have call out all of NEW YORK formative graff artist out (futura, DODi... too many others...) for Biting Van BODE for ages !

Another example: T. Murakami Vs DALEK - KAWS Vs HUCKgee - Dunnys vs Bearbricks...These folks should be at each others throats since their work is so derivative and rippoff-ish...There should be a whole "Woe is ME" site to act a clearing house for these folks and for their I guess " Knights in shining armours." to defend them and calumny other artist wile at it.

Kind a weird chip on your shoulders you are carrying. A very personal beef you need to work out of your system. I mean, if there is such bad blood between your artist pal and FAFI you should write a book, about this indignity and have side by side comparisons of said swipes. Ill buy that book and Im sure many in the community would to. Fascinating stuff...

Magda Danyz present:

A book on a tragical topic.

"a rose denied in Teluse"

or. --Episode 5--

The swiped strikes back thru message boards!

HAW!

All with a grain of salt... and your life will taste better.

BEA.

[Guest]

Silvercloud. Thank you for your comments on my opinion. Wouldn't it be the bestest if we could go back in time and right this wrong ! If you find a way to time travel for this cause let us know because Im sure there are many artist out there that believe they have been wronged. ( and not just bested by more talented individuals.) that would love to make the trip.

Not being an ass here just that if you look at art movements thru-out history and just the overall snapshot that is street art and its "crew" mentality. There have always been family and regional styles.

You would have call out all of NEW YORK formative graff artist out (futura, DODi... too many others...) for Biting Van BODE for ages !

Another example: T. Murakami Vs DALEK - KAWS Vs HUCKgee - Dunnys vs Bearbricks...These folks should be at each others throats since their work is so derivative and rippoff-ish...There should be a whole "Woe is ME" site to act a clearing house for these folks and for their I guess " Knights in shining armours." to defend them and calumny other artist wile at it.

Kind a weird chip on your shoulders you are carrying. A very personal beef you need to work out of your system. I mean, if there is such bad blood between your artist pal and FAFI you should write a book, about this indignity and have side by side comparisons of said swipes. Ill buy that book and Im sure many in the community would to. Fascinating stuff...

Magda Danyz present:

A book on a tragical topic.

"a rose denied in Teluse"

or. --Episode 5--

The swiped strikes back thru message boards!

HAW!

All with a grain of salt... and your life will taste better.

BEA.

[Jack Paar]

you snooze you loose..

if Van is the real deal she should start defending herself, and stop taking blows..

WAR is the answer..imagine an all out old school cat fight graf war on the streets of france!

I'd pay to see that!

[Selegna]

that would be dope.

French on French violence!!

HOPE YOU GET IT LATER...

[Snuggles]

hey yall....

miss van fans are pretty serious huh? yea so while i was in spain i decided i needed a new tattoo and thought of this female graffiti character i saw one time. when i got home i leafed through my graff magazines to find miss van's characters, when i proceeded to look up miss van online i found out she was a pretty famous artist. who knew? the fact that i remembered her characters from one of many graffiti magazines i hadn't looked at for a few years speaks to how good and memorable of an artist she is. i also realized when i got home that i had taken some photos of miss van graffiti in barcelona that i hadn't know was hers at the time, i just knew i liked it. unfortunately i missed her show in barcelona but hopefully i'll catch something next time i'm in spain... so yea miss van is awesome and i hope to be getting one of her characters tattooed on my body ASAP... when i do i'll be sure to post it up here

snuggles

[jasonmaggio]

Dayem, if Silvercloud is my man L, then I'm trippin' cuz his english is better than mine! I can't tell you how many rumors I've heard about this subject through the years. Eventually I got the facts straight from the horses mouth and I don't think the gritty details need to be disclosed on a web board but know this... Your girl Vanessa keeps it real and any chance any of us have to support her art there should be no hesitation. Any woman that can spend three hours on a wall in the middle of the night while drunk german tourist walk by cat calling every 20 seconds gets mad respect from me.

[gobolino]

I LOVE Miss Van work, I'm a real fan of her.

Has anyone heard about her collection in Fornarina?

Yesterday I was having a look at some shops and I saw tees, jeans and dresses. I would like to see the complete Miss Van collection, do you know where can I find a link or something to that collection?

Thanks!

Edited by gobolino on Nov 6, 2005 at 06:30 AM

Edited by gobolino on Nov 6, 2005 at 06:30 AM