ATWM

I live a university town, I see a lot of it already haha.

Interesting the way this conversation has gone. In general, I don’t buy the concept of aging out of jeans. Aging out of particular ways to wear them or styles of fit, yes, yes. Yes, originally they were workwear, but we’re talking decades and decades since they leapt out of the factories and the mines and into the general population. I guess there are levels to this - and I suppose this is more specific to when and where I’ve grown up and lived - they’ve been the ultimate neutral and sort of signal flattener. They don’t really convey class or position on society one way or the other - but they do convey a basic sense of giving at least the tiniest of a shit in most cases - where sweats/tracks/pajamas are on much less stable territory here. They go at least as far in one direction as chinos or trousers do another direction. This might be a less popular opinion and really is just about my own sensibility but I find the attempts to formalize or “dress up” jeans to be misguided. A blazer with jeans - even dark jeans with tonal stitching - and dress shoes, for me, conveys a sense of a sort of conformist or an institutionalist who wants to be seen as a touch less serious in order to ingratiate themselves. If it’s a 5 pocket design, it should not be paired with a sport coat. I am painting with a broad brush here - but in the most basic sense, the gut reaction is to run the other direction - or to suggest putting on pants that don’t confuse the tone of the sport coat and probably the person wearing it. I think the only thing worse is sneakers with a sport coat and jeans, or those awful shoes that have dress style tops and fat rubber soles. As always, exceptions exist, and in the heritage world there are things like sack coats and chore coats that confuse this sort of assertion even more. I apologize if I’ve offended anyone’s general sensibility - take a free shot at me. Or, even better, wear it well and be in the world proving me wrong.

In reference to the covid era in particular - that’s when I came to Sufu (I was a lurker for a time before that). It was 2020 maybe? Late joiner in that sense. But anyways, I couldn’t not wear jeans during Covid just because you couldn’t go anywhere. As a freelancer, when not out in the field and working from a home studio quite often - I’ve always equated putting on real pants with going to work, silly as that is. I still put them on when I get out of bed to write at 5:30 am. This has been the case for me forever. I could never get real work done in “soft” clothes like sweatpants - save that for physical training. In 2020, it seemed like this was maybe the last place left in the world where people dared to put on real pants, so I finally had to join.

Aren’t At Last jeans sanforized or am I wrong about that?

Forgive the sincere response, it's really all that I'm capable of. But I guess I see it a little differently - I was never too interested in the idea of cutting edge, in fact for years I enjoyed skateboarding in whatever hand me down gap and american eagle clothes that came my family's way, and only over time by hanging out in skateshops did I sort of go that way. Even at those shops I just wanted to find stuff that I felt "myself" in, whatever that means - stuff I was drawn towards tended to be more subtle I guess. In this way, I'm not dressing too differently than I was 20 years ago, which for some is sad and for me is something I'm content with, but it also just happens to work with the other facets of my life (most of the time, I can put on a suit if I need to). I just have mostly better versions of the same stuff - and that's why I like some of repro makers, because that's where you get the best versions of the basic stuff. I know the sort of consideration that went into it, and can appreciate it for that, but it's not much of a signal of anything other than ordinariness to most others. I have learned about and come to appreciate some of the more out there stuff, but it still is stuff that I feel "myself" in. Scare quotes because I don't put too much stock in that whole notion - I guess I don't really identify much with how I dress - or rather, it's something I find is fun to take an interest in and learn about, but I don't think it goes much beyond that for me. My deeper values or interests have tended to lie elsewhere. I think the closest it gets to having to do with values is that again - the jeans and sweatshirt, denim jacket etc is something that tends to disappear in public. It's ubiquitous - sort of a non-thing. Keen people can see it's maybe a nice version of a non-thing, and that's always fun, but in general - at least where I've lived, the way I've dressed has more or less been a non-statement - or for anyone who knows me, I've been in versions of the same thing forever. It's not really much noticed. Even back in my younger skating days I usually had the more anodyne versions of whatever was out there. I've never felt a huge need for a lifestyle to match up with clothing though. For context, I ran a marathon in surf shorts because that's all I had, and I couldn't be bothered to buy proper running shorts - finding them ridiculous looking and a waste of money. None of this means that I don't care at all what people think, it's just that if I find something I like and am comfortable in - it's pretty much case closed. The only thing I'm really not so chuffed on is that I still feel I've got a few too many things and not enough wear in some of them, so I've slowly been trying to whittle it down to the things I like the most and identify what's best for my daily uses. But um @exaptavist I do recall @Double 0 Soul posting a pic in his well worn Freewheeler 47's some time ago with recognition that they were indeed something solid. I'll admit, out of the repro brands, I do find FW the best, simply because they go the longest most reliably without having to repair busted ass threads or darn the crotch (good patterning!), both things I'm annoyed to do and have done with every other pair! I do agree that group think can kill flair, but like, we all came here because we really liked the most basic, ubiquitous garment on the planet.

I should have been this crowd, I guess? I was perhaps a few years too old, but it all looked pretty ridiculous to me when it was happening. I was a little punk but it had a totally strong whiff of sellout vibes even at that point - and there were people who got excited about it blowing up and people who were pretty put off by it. The Fuct founder's point about skateshops hits pretty well - so many of them now seem like they want to be these sort of high fashion adjacent stores with some decks, but they just lack the whole spirit of the ones before. I know things always change but I'm bummed it's gotten that way for kids who don't have much to spend and need a place to have respite for the afternoons - the old ones were literally hang out spots - with couches, videos going, even drinks and snacks etc - as much as stores. Supreme wasn't really that respected in the circles I ran in, and never really got that way. Strangely, from my vantage point it was never even a serious skateboard company (I know many would argue this tooth and nail). Same with Fuct, honestly - no one really wore that shit, save some rollerbladers! But whatever. I was more of a Drawls / XYZ / Droors fan in the mid/late 90's - Four Star was also huge as a clothing brand that didn't make hardware, but it was associated with Girl/Chocolate and Eric Koston and all those dudes. And of course Alien Workshop and Toy Machine were some of my favorites. Funny about North Face too - when at was at university in the early/mid 00's it had already well jumped the shark, being the uniform (paired with uggs) of the entire sorority scene. I don't love how hoodies look much of the time but will always keep some around because the warmth/comfort factor is undeniable!

It's been mentioned before but Freewheelers is really pretty good with sizing consistency. It doesn't mean you can't wear 2 different sizes from them, but it does mean that if you're a 32 in one of their jeans and have a pretty proper, traditionally aligned fit, then a 32 in any of their jeans is probably what's going to correspond to the intent of the original pattern. If the waist itself is a little different, that's probably on account of the rise being a little bit different. This is my own opinion that I've also mentioned before but I think if one has to size up for a suitable top block that's indicative it's quite possibly just not a great cut for someone. A too loose waist that tapers down isn't a great look most of the time. Not that it doesn't work sometimes for some people, but something else - a fuller cut - will probably work better.

reminds me of this - a little history https://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2019/05/23/discussing-history-fuct-current-streetwear-market/ i remember my local shop carrying it, but never crossed into owning one of them.

Tender makes the longest jeans I’ve ever gotten - I think they tend to come around 38” if not a little longer.

@indigoeagle FWIW - I had the SS in a size smaller (29) than the regular 0105 (30). My SS, only worn one or two times, were larger in both the waist and thighs than the bigger size of the 13.7 oz denim. I really needed a belt with the SS. I usually don't wear one. I'm not sure if it was the way they were sewn or if the fabric just gave that much in such quick wear time - but the real life factor was even more than a size bigger, closer to 2. I've since sold them so I can't provide any measurements.

My WW2 pair is raw and stored away, so I can’t comment on worn. They’re essentially the same (xx4) denim - on the most recent models - Ooe has made previous pairs with earlier iterations of denim. The WW2 pair’s was a little more flawed in production if I recall them saying, I can’t recall the specific differences. Maybe someone else can recall - it had a slightly greyer cast and maybe a little bit of irregularity? They’re both overall pretty smooth, uniform, tightly woven classic denim and very similar.

Inis Meain / Polar / Kapital / WMJ / Oak Street + snow (finally, my favorite part) Also for @Hopethisoneisnttaken a few throwbacks from 4 years ago. 2 diff Tender coats ( + tender jeans) + newborn.

I’m not great at detecting tone online, my bad. But yea, I think that brands like Kapital and 45R, and maybe even Tender (though different) are sort of in that mold - there is a lineage of such brands. Love makers like this. I’ve picked up a couple of Kapital coats over time and I really love them - just unique designs, sort of crazy but also completely practical and wearable and obviously inspired by traditional designs from that time period.

Have a similar pic with my Tender type 900 (something I’d consider a chore coat derivative). Hope you’re getting some sleep these days.

They’ll just start over again - whatever they haven’t made in awhile. Whatever they figure they can sell, whatever seems to fill a gap. The idea of progress is sort of anathema to the whole thing, no? I like this stuff as much as the next person here but this really all just boils down to marketing. One tiny change - a slightly different denim, different buttons, a slightly different pattern, a few details here and there - something imperceptible almost everyone but some people here - is enough to call it a new thing. Novelty in the tiniest of ways is all that’s needed. And sometimes that novelty is just the right thing. To my mind it’s not going anywhere at all. In circles. That’s fine and all - I think we can just call it what it is.

^ all of this hurts because it’s like 0 degrees in Michigan yet y’all have more of the good stuff.

Mostly shelving my 001’s for now, but still a lot of life left in the them. Probably close to a good year of wear at this point with quite a few washes and one or two tumble dries. The denim felt fairly crispy up until the first wash, at which point it just totally softened up and any honeycomb creases were essentially gone. Great jeans.

Fit following very hot soak + warm wash + hang dry

This is tough because this is 4 (?) different patterns being tested here too, right? And then for me, I really don’t feel I can assess fit from raws until I’ve had a good week or two in the jeans and things have settled out a bit. But, having gotten a 30’s fit and erring on the larger of the two sizes I was debating, I’m not ready to say I would take any out of the seat. It’s not snug, but if I’d wanted that I wouldn’t have chosen the size nor the 30’s fit - and when you get a bit looser these things are all less consequential. I think the seat is probably a little more fitted than 0105’s with a similar waist - which are definitely anti-fit. I find this 30’s cut sort of in between.

@Jared_Lee I think I can see what you mean, though it’s maybe less noticeable to me since I wanted a looser fit overall. I also never can really fill the backside too well as is, ha. After wearing for just half a day the denim has settled down and stretched some to the point where I wonder if could have gone down a size and had a nice fit. Im glad I didn’t, given the room I was looking for - but I’m actually using the cinch already. My impression - by waist alone since I don’t have a comparable cut, is that these actually some out slightly more generous than Ooe sizing - though I may not have gotten all the shrink out. I did a steaming hot soak with hand agitation followed by a warm wash and hang dry.

To my mind it’s pretty straightforward- probably 12 oz raw, ~14 oz washed. Not notably hairy or irregular in any way. A little crunchy but a bit soft at the same time, I think it will end up on the softer, drapier side of things, but it’s not that way after an initial soak + wash. Honestly, the closest comparison I probably have in my closet is in terms of raw and washed feel is Ooe.

Will get pics sometime this week but these shrunk up to a fit that I’m really quite happy with and think I’ll be pleased to have these as my primary pair for some time. I’ve got a bit more room through the leg than I’m used to (as was the hope), the waist shrunk to 73 cm and has already comfortably stretched to wherever it needs to be. Length is perfect, shrunk exactly the way we were advised - just enough for a little turn up. Great pattern, or maybe I’ve been missing 30’s models my whole life.

That’s rough! We may (or may not, because who the hell knows) be paying those soon enough here in the U.S. I remember long ago when I lived in NZ for a time my mom sent me a care package of some items from home I had wished I packed, and did it all by the book. I had to pay some $300+ just to pick it up. I can’t remember what jacked up the fee so much, but it was well used whatever it was.

Happily my pair landed, even much earlier in than the day than I'd have thought. Got a quick try on - I think these will be good. I'm too lazy for measurements - I tend to just try em on and if I feel I've sized well enough I just leave it alone and trust that whatever math I did upon ordering had some coherence to it. I have some room in the waist, it will likely be a little snug up there post wash but I think will stretch back out nicely - I don't need it to stretch back out to raw. The rest of the pants seem to have room to shrink all over, but nothing crazy. The length is the wildcard - room to cuff or not? Probably a little... I'd agree on the TCB/Ooe spectrum - my pair seems quite nicely made, pocket bags seem about just right sized - stitching isn't Ooe level tidiness but with some snips I think it would be pretty close, and I also think that's not so much the intent anyways. Really pretty much just as I'd hoped for a raw 30's pair. Simone did a nice job and knowing it's going to a one man operation I think these are worth every penny. Shame I can't get into it until the weekend!