johninger

you make a good point about the fit.

Straight outer leg seams do inhibit the cut considerably. It means all your shaping must be done on the inner seam. Is not a problem with boys jeans as such, as straight leg seam is fine i think (tapered and boot cut can be accomplished by shaping inner) but for girls having selvage all throughout jean would result in a frumpy sort of a cut.

In the end it comes down to what you like. I am very particular about the finishing of my garments. I hate messy finish and will not buy jeans that are badly done. But i am probably in minority.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

yeah for sure, they can do some great stuff and many of the techniques i would not even be able to tell if they just gave me a trimming.

Things like slubbing devices (think amsler) and spinning the yarns roughly can emulate old look.

There are some big differences you might want to note between OE and RS though. On ein particular is strength. A ringspun denim will be about 20% stronger than an OE of an equivalent weight and yarn. Reason for this is tedious to explain but basically in OE about 20% of the fibres in the yarn will not contribute to strength but are just there the ride.

In the end i just love selvage denim. I love clean interior of jeans, like a tailored suit. If you ever get the chance you should look inside a pair of Imperial's. Where other brands overlock most seams they handfell (not bind, this is just as bad as overlocking).

The selvage adds to this, you could not recreate this with OE fabrics.

But to answer your question there is a lot but where do i start.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

perhaps, im not so sure though.

I think you will get a good fade no matter what.

But the longer you wait the more pronounced the creases will be.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

make sure you drop the sand paper before you get too excited...

ow.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

it is hard to weave shuttle loomed denim. There are many irreggularities and little bits that stuff up naturally due to the old mechanics of these looms. These variations are not the fault of the weaver or at all something to be worried about.

It is part of the charm of selvage denim. Many new denims try to mimic this by changing optimal settings in the new looms or using intricate dying techniques to mimic variations in weave.

When you go and strip the denim of its natural character ie destroy the jeans like the way the aforementioned brands do, they may as well be using oe-projectile denim, the wash techniques and distressing wipe out all the beautiful variation.

But that is my opinion not all people's.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

lol good point minya

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

lol all the laces of my shoes are blue.

and like my signature says i live in hope.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

still in Japan, but I consult for a few different places. Prefer to not name them though, the industry is a bit secretive if you know what i mean.

Denim Mafia sounds good... lol

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Im glad you liked it.

Similar to when i'm walking along with my new iPOD nano that i tuck inside my old sharp walkman when im walking along

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

fair enough, dont get me wrong they definitely have hit the nail on the head. Probably the most successful brand to come out of that grunge look. Well done to them I say.

My opinion is they are horribly made jeans though...

Hap when am I not informative

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

i have emailed the info on the site about this point, and they basically say that it depends on a persons body shape.

eg. if they have solid thighs then between the legs wears out cause of the abrasion that occurs when it is raw. Also, depends on the cut i suppose.

My feeling is companies when they are putting on wash instructions sometimes they cover themselves by putting on more careful instructions. Like some shirts should be able to be washed and tumble dried but to make sure none get returned they say only hand washed and line dried.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

still turn out well...

just kidding.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

yeah i thought so too. I didn't really follow exactly what they said my Duke's were 8 months i think before i washed them.

Does anyone else sit and look at their worn in jeans? Mine are so beautiful at the moment, would love it if they could stay this way forever.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

corbin law i would be interested in your opinion regarding this point.

Have you read the perfect wash section under imperial is... of Imperial Brand Clothing's website? [url=" http://www.imperial.st"] <a href="http://www.imperial.st" target="_blank">http://www.imperial.st </a>

They seem to imply that waiting too long can be detrimental to the jeans due to abrasive nature of raw denim. They recommend 4-6 months depending on how much you wear them.

What do you think? It seems a funny point, i mean it makes sense as far as I know about denim but i have never heard a brand assert this in their care instructions before for raw denim.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Their mill is totally shut down. Their rope dyeing machine was shipped out of there recently. They have no capacity to make denim in Australia at all anymore.

I think they are trying to keep it on the quiet but basically they ship the denim in and market it from Australia.

It is a lesson in globalisation boys and girls, that a country that produces some of the highest quality cotton in the world ships most of their product out to get made up and then back in usually as a finished garment. With the majority of the profit made outside of said country.

Plus i never liked Bradmill denim in the first place, they were never forward thinking enough to compete with Italians and never good enough at the basics too compete with Japanese/ Americans and never cheap enough to compete with sub-continent/mainland asia.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Hay anyone ever bought a >$US200 D&G or versace plain branded tshirt and then taken off the branding.

Cause i think that would be so post-modern.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Edited by johninger on Nov 1, 2005 at 04:48 PM

PS there is no such thing as australian denim anymore.

hap you mentioned australian denim, they only had one mill producing for the last five-ten years and it shut recently.

I colleague of mine works with a Chinese weaving company that has swallowed up some of its assets.

There are very few textile mills producing anywhere in the western world these days, especially such margin dependent goods as denim...

Off topic but even much of "Japanese" denim, is produced off shore and just marketed through Japan, i believe this is what Bradmill (australian denim producer) do!

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

To be honest, im not a fan of tsubi. As far as it being a premium line of denim i do not agree. Is a remnant of the sort of post-punk grunge thing everyone went through a couple of years back. Too manufactured, the washes are too over the top and look so fake, tsubi will be equivalent of acid wash jeans in ten years time, when we have year 00's parties everyone will turn up in tsubi jeans and laugh at each other

Plus their construction is absolutely lousy, my friend had a pair that lasted less than five months of intermittent wearing.

Nobody seems a little better, i've only seen bits and pieces of it. Was not very big last time i was in Australia. And they have only a small range in Japan.

One point though, it doesnt seem right to wash/distress selvage denim heavily. Why go to the extra expense and trouble of having beautiful denim to just grind/brush/paint/rip the living daylights out of it.

I personally think neither brand is anywhere near the likes of nudie, edwin, LVC etc. They should not be considered as premium denim lines, maybe more trendy fashion items.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Watch out Haptronic, people have spent time in guantanamo bay for saying less than that lol.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

No direspect to ringring but i dont think grinder will go in this instance. Might very well do but nature of knits (especially thin ones) is to pill alot on a grinding motion.

If i was doing this as a project in a laundry, i would do as follows.

Wash options - Enzyme wash, silicon (soft feel), if you are using a carded cotton with low memory it might even be worthwhile chucking an elastomeric finish with the rest, they tend to be complimentary.

physical options - instead of grinder use a brusher, ie machine that is used on front leg panels on jeans. Different models can be set up differently to move different patterns, so will depend on what you like.

At home - dont know where to start. Hard to get a hold of those chemicals in household quantities + many are not disposable down the drain, they will kill all the little fishies!!!!

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Yeah is nice, very rustic.

Anyone with photos of the washed out tags on samurai or SdA please post photos. Im talking about the skin coloured tags that are pressed in turing the artwork brown.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

how bout the detail in the artwork, the samurais leather tag look very similar in construction to the Imperial.

Does the artwork get "washed out" of the tag, this pair I have you can still easily see the features but you can tell after years of washing it will just end up a blank piece of leather.

I actually find this quite appealing but some others might not.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

After washing my Duke's i noticed the leather tag had lost some of its detail.

For those not familiar, they have leather tags sewn on the back that are pressure stamped leather. So the artwork is actually pressed in rather than painted on to card like levis.

Has anyone had any experience with any other brands with real leather tags (samurai, studio d'artisan), what happens in these cases, do you lose some detail in artwork, does the leather shrink?

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Hey not sure what sort of effect you are after. Is it you have low quality fabric and you want to improve hand. Or is it that you have bought low quality tshirts and you want to make them look worn and feel softer.

cause if you are starting from scratch you would be better off using a higher quality fabric. Note that silicon finish is temporary and is not-ironable (is but will lose feel quickly) and the effect of enzyme is to break down the cellulose fibres, in effect aging very quickly. Therefore will compromise shirts longevity.

Lots of options if you are actually making the shirt yourself? So let us know and i'll give you a run down. Some easy ways would be better yarn (ie carded<carded treated<carded sueded<combed<long staple combed etc) or you could try some yarn manipulated fabrics or poly blends to achieve the hand you want.

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss

Edited by johninger on Oct 30, 2005 at 09:01 PM

I washed mine after about 9 months ie. machine wash etc. and the honeycomb folding came back where it was.

This is due to the the honeycombs bending the fibres a certain way, they in effect gain memory for the folds.

shrinking to fit sanforised jeans doesnt work. Sure they shrink about 5% but they give that much too, so just get a pair that fits

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

... could you hand me the dental floss