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johninger

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    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    Quote:

    If I copped a pair of Dry denim, and didn't want them to fade and show wear, could I prevent this by washing them first thing?

    --- Original message by Francis Begbie on Oct 17, 2005 09:04 PM

    lol

    Funny question because i think the reason jeans are so popular and always will be is because they fade. However, is it the stiffness you want to retain or the colour? Cause stiffness will be lost after a couple of washes, colour too will fade after washing.

    Washing once will not stop process as wear and tear are also major factors in fading. All it will do is lessen the fading caused by creasing, but creasing still appears on my jeans after four washes...

    Indigo is really not a good dyestuff on paper. One of the most important discriminating factors in dyeing is its colorfastness... and indigo is not colorfast at all. But it is this gradual fading of jeans that makes them so special.

    Similar to pigment dyed shirts, the wearing and aging makes the garment more beautiful. I remember reading something Nudie wrote that denim and leather are two garments that age naturally. I think they are right.

    however, i don't look good in leather pants...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    yeah you are right andewhall.

    Like i said the yarn is saturated at about 10 dyes in most dyehouses i have ever worked with.

    from then on the indigo that is being oxidised at each step would just sit on top of the fabric and like you said bleed straight off it, obviously more does bind to fibre each time but point of diminishing returns is at about 6 dips i guess.

    As you may have picked up Indigo and cotton binding is very unstable.

    I think it is overkill. For instance the most famous mills that everyone talks about here would use maximum (very maximum) of 16 dips unless some designer insisted cause firstly it will not improve the denims colour qualities at all and secondly handling this all the way through the manufacturing/retailing process is difficult.

    Jeans like nudie raw ralph is sulphur topped to give that black look. They would be maximum of 6-8 dips but also have sulphur (black dyestuff). The APCs that i have seen on this site look no more than 2-6 dips. Kurabo, one of the main narrow width producers in the world produces majority of 2 dip denim for their flagship selvage stuff.

    The crazy japanese brands like sugarcane seem to do this as a way to distinguish, because bleeding is considered an erroneous dye process rather than something to be proud of (ie. either bad oxidising process or wrong concentrations etc.)

    I would be interested to talk to you about those swatches are they selvage do they bleed on a wet handkerchief, if they are selvage is the whites of the selvage bled on...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    You are right that dip process is the amount of times it is "dyed", (i just posted a little message on another thread about dipping lol)

    32 seems excessive though, the most I have ever really used was about 18 and this was excessive. Most commercially available denim is about 4-10 times. But the other thing to remember is that 32 dips at one place may get the same amount of indigo bound to the fibres as a 10 dip at another place. It really depends how good the technicians and equipment is.

    Regarding your question

    dipping is a process that is virtually unique to indigo dying. It is necessary because indigo is insoluble in water, so the indigo has to be reduced (makes it soluble) so it can be used as a dyestuff. Furthermore, indigo and cotton do not bind well to each other so only a little indigo will actually penetrate the fibre each time the yarn is dipped.

    So the process is the yarn (warp) is formed into a rope and pulled through a dying bath. it is then systematically removed from the bath excess indigo removed and left to oxidise. This oxidisation makes the indigo insoluble again and therefore bound semi-permanently to the cotton.

    This process is repeated lots of times to produce sequentially darker shades. It is interesting to note after about 10 dips in a reasonable dyehouse the yarn will be nearly totally saturated... Therefore any further dips will merely oxidise indigo on the surface of the fabric and not be of benefit to the fabric's colour at all.

    Note though that there are other methods less modern as the rope dyeing procedure, like hank that may need more dips than the standard.

    edit - just as a sidenote, i would be very interested to see if anyone actually makes hank dyed denim though, would cost a fortune.

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    Edited by johninger on Oct 17, 2005 at 06:30 PM

    0

    breaking in washed denim

    in supershopper

    Posted

    Not sure what denim people are talking about here but generally indigo will fade well no matter what.

    I've seen old men walking around with 501s that were obviously bought with a simple rinse wash finish. They look amazing now beautiful contrast in both groin and back of knees. And i can tell you these old men would have not been allowed by their wives to not wash them for more than a week.

    I would say you will still get fading but not as nice and pronounced. Also, you say it is very dark, this may be a combination of indigo and sulfur dyestuff. Note that the black coloured sulfur dyestuff does not fade in the same way as pure indigo.

    Also, I have read a lot of threads in Superfuture that talk glowingly about denim that smudges blue in your hands.

    A point on this is that this should not happen if the dying process is done properly. ie they have slipped up in either the concentrations of dyestuff or in the oxidisation process. I used to use a mill (they have shut down now) who were experts in indigo dyestuffs. I once made a pair of jeans that were 20 times dipped. Except for when you wet them they would not discolour at all.

    Just info sorry if off topic...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    kixslf

    Those APCs are one wash off raw right, worn for four months...

    Unless the lighting is deceiving that denim looks like it is a 2 dip perhaps 4 dip at the most.

    Im not familiar with APC... is this how all their denim is like?

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    Nudie=Evisu

    Interesting concept... In a way i think he has a point but maybe he didn't mean to make it...

    Nudie have done very well on their dry denim and in particular dry selvage, with many people in the public arena thinking they have somehow rediscovered the wheel.

    Evisu did this same very thing through clever marketing, with their "unique" idea of using narrow width shuttle looms.

    They have been many brands around using dry selvage denim far before either Nudie and Evisu, however, they both get incredible credit for ther respective products. Lets face it raw/dry denim is how denim was always worn, not even 20 years ago.

    Lesson here boys and girls is that marketing makes the market...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    Dior Homme SS 06

    in supershopper

    Posted

    I am to large to wear any of that stuff. Imagine a 34" waist guy with muscular buttocks, long golden hair, long silky legs toned like an adonis statue...

    i am getting off the topic and by the way i dont look like that.

    But can you imagine a normal guy wearing some of that stuff it would look ridiculous.

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    Carlo Gruber Adidas

    in supershopper

    Posted

    No I don't and the resellers are charging way too much. Maybe I could get one of the adidas original stores overseas to send some in.

    What do you think?

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    Where's Serge?

    in supershopper

    Posted

    Where's Serge? There's Serge?

    The next wiggles hit following on from such classics as

    Wake up Jeff

    Hot Potato Hot Potato

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    I think Johninger is a loser in fact i think he should be banned from the board. he knows nothing about denim or fashion or girls or anything and all he wants to do is go on about his brand.

    in fact i think anyone who has a plain a log in name as john inger should be banished from all fashion geek forums.

    I just wish he would go away and wear some non-selvage jeans and die...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    ... could you hand me the dental floss

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    what are you talking about...

    go search my posts i talk about hundreds of things. You must have selective vision (could someone please let me know if there is such a thing) and do not read my other posts.

    I am flattered that you think me so clever as to make an innuendo. I am sad that you think me underhanded though

    ps. it is not my brand

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    [url=" http://www.imperial.st"] <a href="http://www.imperial.st" target="_blank">http://www.imperial.st</a>

    0

    denim update....apc and nudie pics

    in superdenim

    Posted

    Tragic really nice jeans...

    Hey do you ever have problems with leg flexibilty skating in standards...

    I was thinking cause my imperials are super fitted in the legs and when they were first raw i couldnt take really large steps... They are fine now but i wouldnt do 100m hurdles in them...

    I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

    [url=" http://www.imperial.st"] <a href="http://www.imperial.st" target="_blank">http://www.imperial.st</a>

    0

    fake lvc in bangkok thailand

    in supershopper

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