Dry

Just came across Paul's guide Levi's 501 - a visual guide - superdenim - superfuture – supertalk -   very informative and in need of updating. Sadly the 201 is outside the its scope.  

17 hours ago, crownzip said:

My old LVC 1955 501's must be over fifteen years old now. They've been patched and repaired and keep going strong.

They look like Taylor Togs.

On 8/14/2007 at 5:34 PM, Paul T said:

1901

The 501 now has two back pockets, making it a '5 pocket jean'. The shape is still antifit, with straight legs, suspender buttons and no belt loops. The originals would still have used natural indigo denim, from the Amoskeag factory complex, although the reissues mostly use synthetic indigo.

Features:

Pockets: 5 (two back pockets), rear pockets are widely spaced. Coin pocket is squarer and higher than later jeans, just under the waistband.(in fact, this is one item that changes throughout the 501 - on this model, the bottom of the coin pocket ends only just below the main pocket, whereas the on the 55, say, it sits a couple of inches below).

Rivets: read "LS&Co SF"

Belt Patch; Two horse design, no size

Arcuates; vary widely on originals, single needle, hand done.

Cut of LVC version: anti fit, baggy in the seat, high rise, straight legs, like the 1880s jeans. The 1901 jeans, and those before, are narrower than the 20s and 30s versions. These LVC are made slightly oversize; it's probably best to size up two inches for a traditional, baggy fit ( although you will inevitably have problems with the completely useless cinch buckle) although the 2008 run is apparently more trim.

These fade very differently from the 1930s or later jeans. (Suspicious patches are water splashes. Honest). This pair has been hand-washed twice, with perhaps five or 6 months wear. The fade pattern is pretty like originals, few whiskers & honeycombs, but more general, streaky wear. THis denim was quite a dark blue-black when new - the jeans are synthetic indigo - but with fading looks reasonably close to an original.

1922

By this time, Levi's had almost completely swtiched to a new denim supplier, Cone in North Carolina - production from Amoskeag had probably been problematic for some years thanks to union and other labor problems, plus a recession in the cotton industry. It's likely that Levi's had used fabric from both companies in the preceding years.

The Cone fabric has a red line by the selvage - this was used by Cone originally to differentiate denim made for different companies. (Lee often used yellow selvage). Earlier jeans have no selvage line. The Cone denim used synthetic indigo, as is the case for all 501 jeans in future .

By the late 20s, fabric was 10oz, slightly heavier in weight. Reissues use 12.5 or 13oz fabric, still from Cone. These jeans have straight, wide legs. Note the classic leather patch, cinch, and back pocket rivets. From 1910 or so, the leather patch has the size printed on. From circa 1922, jeans now have both suspender button AND belt loops. And, detail freaks, bottom hems are now chain-stitched.

From the 1890s, or earlier, Levi's also produced cheaper lines - the 201 was a cheaper version of the 501 and has also been reissued by LVC.

1922 201

The 201 was the budget version of the 501 - it already existed in the 1890s. It used 'No 2' denim from an unspecified supplier (amosekag was always mentioned in their easrly pricelists, so presumably the factory's output had a good reputation) - the denim perhaps looks greener and more slubby on the originals, and the jeans were 'cottton-stitched' as opposed to 'linen-sitiched', and had a cloth, as opposed to leather, 2-horse patch, and black-enamelled fly and suspender buttons. On the reissues (and, I would guess, the originals) there is a blue selvage line.

Rivets look different (copper plated rather than solid copper?). The shape is different from the 501 too - a narrow waist, wider around the bum, with straight, slightly wider leg; the pockets are larger, and closer together (compare them with the 1901 jeans, for instance, and they look very different). Depending on the fit you want, you might want to downsize on the replicas. The original reissue of the 201, produced in Valencia St SF, with 555 on the buttons, is regarded by some as the finest LVC reissue. It has lovely, greenish fabric. The RED series jeans, which hit the mass market as the Type 1, used denim inspired by the look of the 201.

Features:

Pockets: 5: back pockets are square, large, closer together than 1920s 501

Rivets: late style, with rounded tops, in what looks like a bronze-colour alloy

Belt Patch; white linen 2 Horse.

Arcuates; single needle

Cut of LVC version: waist is narrow, these flare out more from the waist than the 1933 501, and feel very full around the top of the thighs. Along with the 1933 501, these jeans have the widest legs of any LVC. With these jeans in particular, my suggestion would be to buy your actual size in these, unless you like them very baggy - the waist will stretch out, and the legs will still be reasonably roomy. Note that on the 20s jeans, and thereafter, the waist-band is made from one piece of fabric. Earlier ones were two-piece.

Thai fakes often try to copy these jeans. But the fabric never looks as nice as these. Shown here are the early LVC reissue, on the left, and the current reissue, on the right. Note that by 1922, the hems were chain-stitched - earlier jeans were single stitched. You might also see a mutant variation of these jeans, when LVC fucked up - in 2006, I think - and put on the wrong pockets (too small) and the wrong arcuate (the 1947 style). The spring 2007 reissue, shown here, got it right.

1927 501

These jeans are very similar to the 1901 model, but for the paler stitching. On the 2008 model the pockets are a different shape, too. LVC produced these jeans because they mark the point at which Cone, in North Carolina, took over from Amoskeag. These were therefore the first 501 made with synthetic indigo, and the red line selvage which has become synonymous with vintage 501. On the jeans I've seen, which were factory samples rather than production versions, the back pockets were assymetrical, with quite quirky hand-done arcuates... I'm not sure how authentic this is, but it's quite an intriguing look.

1927 501

1933 501

Like its close cousin, the 20s 201, the 1933 501 has belt loops AND a cinch, plus the suspender buttons. Again, these have the widest leg of any 501 jean, reflecting fashions in the 30s. Note also that these have a more lemon-coloured stitching. The denim now carries a red selvage line, which denotes that it is made by Cone, for Levi's (Cone still makes all the reline selvage for LVC to date).

Features:

Pockets: 5 (two back pockets), rear pockets are the last to feature visible rivets.

Rivets: read "LS&Co SF"

Belt Patch; Two horse design, which now has the size printed on.

Arcuates; vary widely on originals, single needle, hand done.

Cut of LVC version: a more shape backside, with wide legs. Like all the earlier jeans, the 1933 are made slightly oversize. I would buy actual size in these; they will be one inch larger than the tag (2009 sizing) and will still be fairly generously sized aorund the thighs etc.

1933 jeans from the 2004 season. Courtesy of THe Clerk. THese photos show what a vintage-style fade you can get from the Cone fabric.

NEw example from the 2002 or 2003 season, complete with NRA tag.

1937

Two key changes: the red tag appears on the back pocket, a new invention that is heavily trademarked, to help distinguish Levi's from new competitors like Lee. (Levi's will heavily defend this trademark, which eventually applies around most of the world, except Japan). The back pocket rivets are now covered. These can readily be distinguished because of the stitching on the back pockets, which is wider around the top to run around the hidden rivets. The suspender buttons have now gone - they were supplied as optional clip-on versions, in the original jeans.

Features:

Pockets: 5 (two back pockets), rivets are now covered, and a single-sided red tab appears on the right hand pocket.

Rivets: read "LS&Co SF"

Belt Patch; Two horse design, which now has the size printed on.

Arcuates; vary widely on originals, single needle, hand done.

Cut of LVC version: Less full leg than the 1933 jeans.

On LVC, the 1937 fabric is, according to some collectors, including airfrog on this board, darker than the 33, and wears better. The 1933 seems to fade to a more royal blue - although it's hard to be conclusive, as samples can vary so much. Remember that current distressed models of LVC are made in Turkey (some previous models came from Romia) and the fabric comes from Italy, I believe, rather than Cone, causing more variation.

The LVC 1933 should generally be a looser fit, although there's considerable sample variation - again, many apparent differences in fit are simply the fact that the 1933 seem to be made slightly bigger. One day I'll speak to the LVC pattern cutter and find out more.

This pair courtesy airfrog:

Obviously it is inappropriate to include those wonderful 201s in a 501 thread but I wondered if you had thought of updating this to include the the 1937 501XXc? I managed (by mistake) to grab myself 6 pairs of the 501XXc made in 1998 and am loving them. Fortunately, I got 4 of them were in the recent sale for under 30,000 yen.

Had you thought of linking this whole thread it to the LVC board, Paul? 

Comparing my new 1937 501XXc s with my 1937 201XX s made 11 months apart at Valencia Street. The 501XXc 's inner label shows it as a 201. Some deadstock 501XXc s are still available but you can no longer get them for around £210 which you could a few weeks back in the sale  at https://item.rakuten.co.jp/birigo/levis-37201-0003/  

Found that if your cinchback jeans, 201 for example are tight at the waist, they are more comfortable with the cinch tightened as it keeps the waistband above the waist. Thighs are not a problem with old cuts.

Loving everything about my Valencia Street 551ZXXs - the fit, the denim and the colour. They almost look overdyed. Very little give so far. The waistband is snug but they are not too tight and there is no noticeable hip flare. The flasher must be one of the best.

Ancient and modern! May 1998 Valencia Street 1937 201XXs  and (if I understand the label correctly) May 2019 Bulgarian 1937 501XXs (which were clearly designed to Wrinkle, Shrink and Fade!).

1 hour ago, Dr_Heech said:

The 'c' in 501xxc, on original vintage levis 501's (1936/37 before the patent came into force..) stands for 'concealed'.

I would imagine that this detail was taken under the wing by LvcJ and thus replicated. Hope this helps?

 

Thank you. Here is a screen print.

1937 501 XXc 555s.

Has anyone got these? I presume the c stands for cinch. They look the same as 1937 201s except for the patch. The inner label defines them as 201s.  I like the 1937 201s but always thought they should be 501s so were not as 'authentic'. The design of the cinch is not right but then it doesn't break so I can accept it.

I have some size 32 201 555s, so I decided to go for some size 32 501XXc's at about £205 before duty etc only for them to be unavailable by the time the order was processed. As I have some 1955s in size 31 I thought I could squeeze into some size 31 501XXc's.

In frustration over the purchase procedure I ended up putting in multiple orders from different sources but wasn't worried as I thought some would end up as unavailable.  However, to my surprise all the orders have now been completed so I will now end up with 4 pairs!

I had a job getting the waistband of size 32 201s done up today after a 40C wash so getting the waistband done up on the size 31s will be a struggle. I may break my luck of always being able to get into any jeans I have bought. I once took 30 mins to get some 25 oz Ironheart buttoned up. If I can't get into them, unless anybody can swap them for size 32s, I may have to put them up for sale when they arrive . The 1937s seem to have less give than 1955s probably because of the cinch.

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/birigo/levis-37201-0003/

Plenty of life left in these 1955s. They are all 555s except those on the top right which are 554s.

12 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

I have a love/hate relationship with my 551zxx. Love the heavyweight 14oz sanforized Cone denim, the patch, the stitching and the arcs are amazing, at least on the 1996 produced model. Hate the cut/fit on me, tbh l think they are a size too big, and the zipper pull is a tad small/fiddly. They don't get much use.

I too love the soft denim, patch, arcs and stitching (apart from the closeness of the stitching to the fly edge - I prefer it further away). I also love the large close together rear pockets. Not fussed about the offset rear belt loop and would prefer the loops at the side to be stitched to the seam and a wider coin pocket. Not sure if the black stitch bar tack at the bottom of the fly is right either.

I got a pair of size 34s very early on from the flagship store. They had 2 pairs in my size. I bought 1 pair and decided to return a few minutes later to grab the 2nd pair but they had gone! Somebody must have been watching me! I kicked myself afterwards. They are comfy and fit OK even now I am slimmer, though might loosen up. I probably didn't wear them much as I had no spare pair to replace them if I wore them out.

22 minutes ago, Sympathy-For-The-Denim said:

sorry but where is the "B"?  i had several Valencia street 551zzx´s and they all came around true to size, but fit different to the 1967s 505s. actually wider at the legs and hips (attention hipflare, either you have a big bum or you have to size down to fill in), just like a 501 of that period. i didn't´t like the relatively short front rise though.

Thank you. The B is in the product code.

Does anybody know anything about the rigid Valencia Street 551BZXXs? 

https://shop-list.com/men/birigo/levis-0551z-0006/

As I understand it "B" denotes Boy ie the smaller sizes. Does that mean that if I can wear non B  rigid 1967 505s in size 30 and 1955s in sizes 31 and 32, I will fit B 551ZXX in size 31 or are there other differences in the sizing of the B versions which might mean they would not fit?

They look nice.

Here are some nice new Levis 125 first 1873 jeans with 822 on the button:

https://shop-list.com/men/birigo/levis-125-0024/

On 12/02/2021 at 4:10 PM, Dr_Heech said:

@unders really spectacular wear on those, maybe you should have had 20 backup pairs (of varying sizes obviously) so your waistline challenges would have been met and you now wouldn't be crying into your pint in the corner.

Joshing aside, just ribbing you @Dry - you buy as many pairs as you want if you feel you haven't enough in reserve.

I myself did the same back in the earlier 2000's, although l probably had 2 or 3 raw pairs in various sizes and an example or 2 of each 555 piece, including duck stuff and all the jackets. I moved on since then to the likes of CSF, FW and more recently WH.

Hey what size are you (raw)? Maybe we could do a Nos/tagless trade? I have a pair of 1937s sz 34x32 l'd be willing to swap for something similar in a similar size (obvs )  - got a 1901 in a 34?

 

I've got a range of sizes. Leg with shrink to fit can be no less than 36. Not into trading I'm afraid. I tend to go for pairs which take my fancy for whatever reason but not into wide fits at present. Raw I go for W32 which is a snug fit on me but 34 is the smallest I have in 1947s. I have W34, W36 and W38s  (I have trimmed off a bit) with L36 or 38. I tamed a pair of W31 L38 1955s about 10 years ago - that was a struggle, and more recently a pair of W30 L34 1967 505s. 

21 hours ago, Sansome1877 said:

I’m sort of doing the same thing in a way, only I’m buying vintage 501’s from the 70’s thru 90’s...I’m looking at it, like a stock share and I always try to get a pair for under $20

@Dry impressive collection, my hoard is a retirement plan...you doing the same?

hope your picking these up at a discount?

I am not doing it for financial gain but they could be a useful nest egg if I can bear ever to part with any. I have bought at discounted prices in the past and have bought some in sales. On the other hand I paid a lot for a pair of deadstock 501s from 1975 (factory 16) in my size 2 or 3 years ago.

I had to wash my 1967 505s after wearing them since November. They are looking good.

Just now, unders said:

If you haven’t found the perfect pair might be time to consider another brand!

Only joshing - sounds like an amazing collection / pension. 

I’d be intrigued to see some of the older 1800s styles. 

Pension may be! I'll get some of the 1800 versions out next week. 

1 hour ago, bartlebyyphonics said:

49x1955 is quite the number!

and why no 70s or 80s... if u have everything of everything else?

I have some jeans actually bought in the 1970s and 1980s and some deadstock non-selvedge Made in the USA pairs from Interstate in the 1990s so the LVC versions didn't have the same appeal. Also I went through an Ironheart and Full Count phase. I also don't have any 1927 or  1915 LVCs.

1 hour ago, Dr_Heech said:

@Dry Why so many jeans? You clearly wont get to wear them all in one lifetime. Or are you just a hoarder?  

The quest for the perfect pair and making sure I have spares in different sizes should I find them!

Stocktake completed!

All rigid BNWT - doesn't include worn or without tags.

4 x First (1873)

7 x 1886

3 x 1890

11 x 1901

12 x 1922 (201)

20 x 1933

19 x 1937 (201 and 501)

14 x 1944

21 x 1947

3 x 1954

49 x 1955

3 x 1966

6 x 1967

Total 172 pieces

In addition, I have a few pairs of 1937 south west soil and some treated 1966s when they first came out and some rigid type 1, 2 and 3 jackets.

On 04/02/2021 at 5:06 PM, Dry said:

Here are some 555 201s for a similar price. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Levi-s-LVC-Vintage-201-Big-E-Shrink-to-Fit-Selvedge-Denim-Grose-W-30-L-40/174606910126?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20191002094254%26meid%3D624cf18f5ad14ed9a1f2ea7c4d8e1b51%26pid%3D101103%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D154286842535%26itm%3D174606910126%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DLevi's&_trksid=p2332490.c101103.m3021

Have you noticed that this spate of 555 501s and 201s all appear to have a price sticker in the same place on the cardboard size tag? Presumably they are part of a job lot which became available in the UK/Europe recently. Anyone know whose price tag it is? From recollection the 1996 501s and 201s used to retail for £180. In March 2012 I scored a job lot of 555 201s from the USA. I heard that in the late 1980s or  1990s someone found a job lot of real vintage deadstock 501s. Can anybody tell the story of those?

On 08/02/2021 at 10:49 AM, Dr_Heech said:

If you look back at my statement, l did say iirc (if l recall). It's hard to remember the exact details of every model of every year and l do get it wrong from time to time like any other human denim enthusiast 

Are they used/worn or raw still? Would be nice have some shots of the back pocket/s arcs. Wonder if they are the missing puzzle for me, template wise.

Here are some pics of a pair of 554 1947s from American Classics at a list price of £105 (before the discount they usually offered me).

12 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

If you look back at my statement, l did say iirc (if l recall). It's hard to remember the exact details of every model of every year and l do get it wrong from time to time like any other human denim enthusiast 

Are they used/worn or raw still? Would be nice have some shots of the back pocket/s arcs. Wonder if they are the missing puzzle for me, template wise.

I was doing a raw 1947 stock take and came across the 554s along with a couple of 555s. There were also number of Rs. I have put some of my 1955s in order but forgot to look at the buttons on them. I will get the 1947s out again at some stage and photograph them. The 1955s were made of  lots of different denim.

On 25/01/2021 at 8:38 PM, Dr_Heech said:

So the three original models that were released by Lvc, 1937 201XX, 1955 501XX and 1963 551ZXX were all made with Japanese milled denim - although from which mill l am unsure. These 3 models ran from 1996-99.

In 1999, Lvc released 2 new models for one run only, the 1944 s501XX and the 1947 501XX, both of which were made with Cone denim. All had the infamous 555 stamped on the backs of the buttons.

Between late 2000 and 2002, when the Valencia st plant shut, the only 501XX models produced for Lvc had added finishes/washes/patching etc; They were all 'limited' versions. But basically no raw 44s, 47s or 55s until the production was moved to the San Antonio factory (the last Levis owned one) where the only raw models produced were the 1944 and the 1955 iirc. These had the 554 stamp on the button backs. 

The only exception to the above was the (re)introduction of the 1937 model. This time though it was re-stamped as the 1937 501XX and was made with Cone. It was made at the  Valencia st factory for a short time (so 555 stamp) before continuing to be made at the Taylor Toggs facility in Greensboro NC (later versions of the model had 643M stamped) as did the 1901 model when it was introduced that year. From then on l think it was standard for all the post 1915 Lvc models to be made with Cone and any before that (excluding the 1917) to be made from Japanese milled denim, although the fugly 1927 model which l have a suspicion was made with non-cone(?)

I have 2 pairs of 1947s with a 554 stamp on the button.