AlientoyWorkmachine

9 hours ago, Small Potato said:

It's just beyond disgusting which my English doesn't allow me to express properly. 

@Small Potato

I think your English expressed it quite well and thank you for your perspective. Those practices are funny, if also sad - but just show insecurity (and marketing savvy, unfortunately). It sounds like CSF has much more in common with Supreme and other hype brands than they'd like to admit. 

@Denimseeker - Just a quick note about photographic rights - at least here in the US. This may or may not prove helpful. A photographer does not need to make a copyright claim for them to hold copyright. As soon as they make the work (snap the photo), the image is copyrighted to them. They can formally register it (in the US, this is an application sent to the Library of Congress) if they want, but all this does is provide a higher ceiling to claim damages should there ever be litigation. It doesn't strengthen their ownership, just how much money they can claim off of it if someone infringes. So whoever took those pictures holds their copyright, and they are the ones who would normally be able to make a claim on them to begin with. 

Again, I have no idea how it works in Japan, but unless Konata explicitly, and with evidence acquired the rights to the photographs from the auction house (with a contract to prove it), this would be bananas. Any sort of claim of the rights of the likeness of the garments themselves seems super suspect - if they are CSF garments this sounds akin to going after every person who posts themselves wearing them, and if they are vintage Levi's then that's even more preposterous. I know you want to avoid conflict, but if you're feeling cheeky and don't want your project to go away, I personally would ask to see proof of holding the copyright of the images and see what comes back. If he can't produce you could find the original photographer (or auction house that photog worked for) and ask them for clearance, as they would seemingly be the ones in the position to give it...just if you wanted to burnish the legitimacy of the project. The screen grab of the website is something I'm not as sure about. Well, actually I'm not totally sure about any of it because this isn't in a country where I'm familiar with the laws but suffice it to say if he actually has a claim then I think Japan has some pretty wack laws about IP. 

Personally, if spent this much time and passion on a project and someone wanted to be an ass about it like this I would consult a local attorney just in case to get some peace of mind, but unless attorney found something actually worrisome I would publish it AS IS and tell this goofball to take a hike with his garbage.

2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

This shit is spreading ....

Apparently, the baby from Nirvana's Nevermind album cover is sueing the band for misuse of an image without permission () and child pornography  . After 30 plus years.

So think yourself lucky @Denimseeker

 

Ha...well publishing a personal likeness for commercial purposes (cover art for an album or a magazine generally counts - as the image functions as the advertisement for the work) without a release is an entirely different situation. Lawsuits for that stuff happen all the time. I can see how that person might have legal standing. I still cannot fathom legal standing with CSF. 

3 hours ago, Flash said:

I really don't get it either , I think its all just an empty threat from Yoshiaki.  I'm guessing he thought he had something ( the items bought at auction ) that not many knew about and when he seen them being published in the ebook he panicked and started babbling about lawers and whatnot to scare denimseeker off , in any case he acted like a dickhead 

Gosh, it sort of sounds like he's not familiar with how the internet works. 

In any case - it seems most niche communities have these sorts of petty folks and in my experience it has a silver lining in that it reveals people's true motives - which often isn't quite aligned with what brings most of the people together. In that sense it's informative.

If Denimseeker wants to put together a pair now I'd probably buy them. 

6 hours ago, kicks79 said:

I can only imagine that CSF is concerned about people knowing which items he used to base his patterns off? Perhaps also worried that he is opening himself up to litigation from Levis? Still seems like a complete dick move. Doing things like that is the reason that the vintage customer base is small. Why wouldn't he want to share the knowledge? Looking at the wait-time on his items it seems that he is already pretty much at capacity, so is he that worried about competition? 

The whole thing reminds me of Supreme suing some other brand for ripping off their type font when they in turn had just lifted it from Barbara Kruger. 

I mean, okay - I can stretch myself to understand why he might be (childishly) upset, but I cannot see how this has any legal standing. What I'm trying to understand is what Denimseeker is actually afraid of - is it just getting flamed on the internet? If so, okay, I get that. But it sounded like there were some other concern. 

An art collector - perhaps someone who owns a significant painting, for instance, cannot just go after some art history textbook publisher that has a photograph of said painting in situ in a museum. The only person that would have any possible recourse to get that picture taken down would be the person who photographed the painting in situ. It may (may) be different if it's being used directly to sell something - property releases are a thing - but I don't see how that applies here - even if the ebook were for sale that likely wouldn't count because of the type of book it is - and especially if the items in question of the photographs are actually just old Levi's...

Can someone tell me what I'm getting wrong? 

Ok, I'm not sure what compelled me to go down this rabbit hole as I personally have never had any interest in CSF (the old front page photograph of the site was enough to put me off permanently)...but what's the actual issue here? The proprietor is pissed off that photos of auction items he won are published as references in a fan's collectors guide? But they are pictures he didn't even take? 

Granted, I am not a lawyer but I'm pretty familiar with photography laws in the US and the UK but how on earth is this a legally salient argument, and how is the publisher of this ebook actually in any trouble? Like where is the CSF owner actually making some sort of IP claim...over what exactly? Generally you need to be the one who made the photograph to have any claim, and even then, it's gonna get tough for you if the photograph is only in the context of an image (like an ebay screenshot) that is assembled for something like a reference, or satire, or other what are considered fair uses. Is the law that different in Japan?

And then yea - the idea that anyone treasures IP to this degree when they making their business off what are essentially high end repros (we could say counterfeits, knock offs, bootlegs) is pretty funny shit. If I cared enough I would ask that someone please, please send me this thing and I make a wetransfer upload of it possibly with an addendum of a middle finger over a CSF logo as the front page. 

1 hour ago, UkeNo said:

 

 

Two Remixes by Hell Interface - a Boards of Canada Alias - both featured on the same 12" Sampler

I'm here for anything from that genius duo. 

16 hours ago, bartlebyyphonics said:

pls more examples pls ... [earlier than Outerbridge?]

 

& yes, a good summation ... 

off-topic-on-topic, pardon the blahh; lev manovich did a study on instagram (including this section - noting it is a melding of photography and [rote] design; a ritual of repetition / variation / minimal difference - not concerned with 'making new')

going further / zooming out... i do like sianne ngai's work on cute, zany, interesting [all of which saturate the 'gram] as aesthetic modes of the present, thinking of the ways in which these aesthetics demonstrate our experience / expression of socially binding processes ... the cuff-shot could be considered an attempt to harness the cute in its in-offensive 'naturalistic' attempt to show lovely fuzzy socks nestling amidst the machismo of stiffly pliant leather, the flat lay an attempt to pique interest in its presentation and harmonies, the lumbersexual seance flat-lay in extremis that @unders named earlier / elsewhere [other thread? man photographed from above, sitting amidst an excessive arrangement of items ... ] are definite attempts to enter the zany [and all its stale desperation - ngai: “while camp thus converts the pain of failure and loss into victory and enjoyment, zaniness highlights it own inability to do this; indeed, the desperation and frenzy of its besieged performers… point to a laborious involvement from which ironic detachment is not an option”]

  

or... symptoms cannot be burnt / thrown to the hornets nest; can we instead interpret what the twitches of the dead horse tell us...

You've got me beat with Outerbridge as the only one I have top of mind is Eugene Smith's from his seminal Country Doctor photo essay in 1948 - scroll to bottom https://www.life.com/history/w-eugene-smiths-landmark-photo-essay-country-doctor/. I know I've seen others but my mind is failing me now. Still, if Smith is doing this as an outtake in 1948 I know it's nothing new at that point. It's not often I come across someone with who reads Lev Manovich or wants to wax about the symbolism of contemporary visual tropes haha. I bet we could have a good chat over a beer sometime were we ever in the same locale.  

2 hours ago, ColonelAngus said:

*beats dead horse*
please, for the love of God, stop with the flat lays on IG. There’s nothing that screams I’ve run out of ideas more than a flat lay. Also, dudes that take staged pics of themselves kneeling to adjust the cuff on their denim must be launched into a hornets nest.

*rant over*

I mean, on the one hand I understand this.

On the other .... this is an interest where most people prefer some ever more precise iteration of some style of clothes made 60-100 years ago. So like...new ideas aren't really the goal by any stretch. Rather it seems like a well done execution of a very old idea is more valued. But whatever hobby one is into is going to have their well worn visual cliches - and flat lays as a type of illustrative photograph are about as old as blue jeans. I've never, ever seen a *new* idea - at least photographically - from the denim community because that's not really the point. The best stuff is just more sincere or transparent or lacking in pretense, whatever that means.

Instagram is a place where most try to make their life more organized and presentable and interesting than it really is through clean visual depictions - as well as to show off the expensive shit you've got - and that's a very clear way to do it. 

Barnstormer seems to only have stuff in 33 or higher. Is this typical for Ooe? I'd probably prefer their traditional (non-Cone) denim all things considered - I'm also in no hurry but would waiting for a 29 (or whatever shrinks to a real 29) in a straight fit something that likely won't happen? 

21 hours ago, Maynard Friedman said:

So why wear anything at all? 

I tried your suggestion which I'd never thought of before! Anyways, today I realize clothes serve as a protective barrier. Who would have thought! 

17 hours ago, CSL said:

AlientoyWorkmachine  I'm curious. Why are modern workout clothes better? Are the fabrics more breathable? 

More breathable, lighter, more durable (as you can imagine this stuff gets washed constantly), wick moisture better, more supportive and also just more comfortable to train in. And in the case of designer/fashion oriented reproductions like this - a better value IMO. 

Depends on what you want out of your gear I guess but the only times I would wear vintage training gear stuff for actual training is if I were feeling more masochistic on a particular day. And even then, I wouldn't pay for the fashion version of it. Then again I usually train in my basement, I suppose if you go to a gym to be seen maybe the calculus is different. 

I like his jeans and some of the jackets, his take on old nautical pieces etc. Some are really fantastic. But to my mind these are pieces that haven't really improved over the years if you're looking for good offerings - the best stuff is still just the best replica (or replica with a twist) that a designer can come up with (ranch jacket - great twists!).

But as someone who is in athletic gear 5 days a week for functional purposes, and doesn't really think it looks all that great for general purposes I don't get the repro of all this stuff - I could say the same for Warehouse - another one of my favorite jeansmakers. Athletic gear now is way better than the stuff from 40 years ago. Training in an old school sweatsuit or trackpants is miserable compared to the fabrics you can get now. Just not for me I suppose. 

Reminds me to get my ranch jacket out though... 

7 hours ago, Jared_Lee said:

Jeans are back from repairs. Recently took a trip to San Miguel de Allende. A beautiful little historic mountain town in the middle of Mexico. It was originally developed as a silver mining town, then the economy was primarily driven by a vertically integrated textile mill where they processed cotton from raw bales to woven muslin. The mill was shuttered in 1991. The city moves heavily on tourism and service industries these days. Lovely people, beautiful architecture and tasty food. A delightful trip. Jeans are better than ever. Finally draping and falling like a well-worn pair should.

Jeans look great - but this post got my attention because I recognized those streets before I even read the text. SMA is a fantastic place. 

Sort of a funny topic re: the selfies.

I'm of the mind that if you're posting a photo of yourself here, you're feeling some measure of pride about yourself (and not just your jeans) whether or not you want to admit it. It's maybe primarily about denim, but it's an ego affirming act regardless. As a somewhat introverted fellow from a pretty (typical) western culture that equates men caring about their appearance - at least to the degree where you'd put a picture on the internet - in such a way as something less than entirely masculine I understand the hesitance to embrace it or to try and play like it's not really that it is but yea - I think at the very least looking at the camera means you own what you're doing. Maybe an epic bald eagle flew by as you hit the remote trigger though and you had to look, though. 

Then again, I am a photographer and have been steeped in too many years of photo theory so I could be overcomplicating it all, as I am wont to do. 

How often does Ooe tend to make their more standard jeans? I think I've been looking on the S+S website periodically for over 2 years now for a restock. 

I think all of those brands are relatively similar in regards to quality, at least in regards to durability - that is to say - they're plenty good for most people who are into jeans more for the fashion of them...which would mostly be the group here as well. Some of the looser weave weird stuff won't hold up as well. Maybe there will be slight discrepancies in stitch quality that again for most people won't provide any functional difference. 

Brands with polyester stitching (IH) generally would hold up longer but most denimheads don't actually want that because it's less aesthetically or materially desirable. 

I think the main factor here that actually drives people is design and aesthetics - and the brands you mention are pretty unappealing to me personally because of poor patterning or patterning that doesn't age well (too trendy) or garish or overly novel design strategies that just...try too hard. Momo's battle stripes are fugly as hell, Samurai is cool and all but not for me just too over the top and IH doesn't interest me at all because I'm not a biker, I don't aspire to represent a biker, I don't think bikers are any more cool or tough or whatever sort of image they want to sell with it. Even if I still were riding I wouldn't buy any IH. 

Stuff that interests me most these days generally comes from Tender, Cottle, Mister Freedom, stuff like that...for overall wardrobe I generally prefer designers who have a coherent vision that is clearly something beyond just remaking old classics in the most meticulous and accurate possible way...but even though I'm not really a big repro guy overall - for just blue jeans, I do think it's hard to beat the staples like TCB, Warehouse or SugarCane. Ooe if you can get them maybe. 

@cultpop 0217

Damn - I hope you and yours are okay. I grew up right around there and that twister literally split the difference between 2 of my best friend's homes. That area hasn't seen anything like that for awhile, hope it's the last for a good long time. The pictures I've seen have been pretty intense since so much of it is familiar to me. 

@Flash The pictures look fine enough, at least here on my monitor. A few could maybe be opened up a tad (this means overall lightening, getting a bit more detail in the shadows and trying to make the neutral tones just as close to white as they are black). Try to make sure your histogram is pretty well distributed (again, at least for these sorts of pictures where a full range of tones is important and the subject isn't super dark or light). This sort of even lighting you have is usually preferable for products especially where conveying accurate color and texture is kind of the goal. Your second to last picture is a bit of an awkward crop - the way the sole cuts off there. Nitpickers might get fussy about the crinkles in the background - and a lot of people will pay a service to just knock out the backgrounds to a solid white - but personally I'm not bothered by "imperfections" - as I'd imagine most here would prefer less artifice given the choice.

Some people like to get into it a bit with the styling aspect but then it gets more into trying to make a creative statement as opposed to just conveying the physical in front of your lens. I feel like for the sort of stuff you're dealing with that overly styled pictures don't really help anything. 

Just my two cents - though my expertise is far from product work these days (I spent a short time shooting product for a commercial house, but it drove me bananas).

2 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Somehow this happened...

SC41201 Awa Ai, 13oz neppy denim with tonal stitching.

Indigo dyed leather patch

Love the fabric of the pockets

 

Size 33x32

(Raw)
Waist: 35.5"
Front Rise: 12.5"
Back Rise: 16"
Thighs: 13"
Knee: 9.25"
Leg opening: 7.9"
Inseam: 33.75"

Nice. How's the cut/fit compare to the edo's for you? I know they're technically the same but ya know... 

And where'd you pick them up raw?

5 hours ago, LazyS said:

thrifted hawaiian / uniqlo/ TCB

World needs more Keith Haring. 

20 minutes ago, jake431 said:

 

@AlientoyWorkmachine - not a mix, but natural indigo.

So it's not that some of the threads are dyed with natural and then woven with synthetic ones also? Because the official description really makes it sound like that. But I wouldn't be surprised if things got lost in translation. The official description even calls it the "Awa mixed" denim. 

Edit - Digging in a little more - it specifies about the blend "which is a blend of Awa Ai and indigo". 

I am taking "indigo" to mean synthetic, and Awa ai to mean natural indigo as per the previous desciption on the site here https://www.sugarcane.jp/news/709/. 

Help me see what I'm missing - I'm sure it's obvious, apologies. 

5 hours ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Is the Awa-Ai SC41201 really made from natural indigo? The description of the fabric on Toyo's homepage is a bit unclear. Or is it a mix of natural indigo and synthetic indigo? Although price-wise it would fit into Sugar Cane's natural indigo category.

It seems to me it is a mix of natural and synthetic, just like the Edo Ai is a mix of the greenish stuff and well, regular indigo. That they go to pains to emphasize the natural dyeing of the pocket bags and the patch but not the denim itself reinforces this to me. What that mix is, who knows. So yea, it's made of natural indigo, but not exclusively so.