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1 hour ago, Duke Mantee said:

Japanese brands aren’t better - we just inhabit a place where we choose to believe that. We choose because it allows us to be part of a group.

Some Japanese products are very very good, some less so. Some American products are very good, and some American businesses are desperate to service this market sector so use Japanese materials. The same might be said of businesses in other countries including Japan, where they often use materials from other countries.

It’s interesting to hear what folk think,  and every opinion has some validity, but what I have grown to dislike about the debate is the clichéd language and the narrow range of comparisons.

I think it needs to be asked what is really meant by ‘Made in Japan’; I think the debate needs to take a broader view; I think if anyone is genuinely interested, the research should be more meaningful … and from a personal point of view, “rugged”, “raw”, “teacore” and every other related word used in that context should be subject to a word filter by the forum - cliché control if you like.

I have a friend who works logistics in the the auto industry in nearby Detroit. There's a certain segment of Detroiters who look down on "foreign" vehicles. He went on tell me that the GM car he had recently purchased (General Motors is one of the big three auto companies based in Detroit, and an acceptable brand badge amongst the people he was referring to) was assembled in China. It came over on a boat and then trucked from Seattle to Detroit. Meanwhile the Toyotas that don't pass muster are actually assembled in Tennessee. All of the cars, no matter where assembled, are a mishmash of parts from all over the globe, and it was only getting more complicated. His conclusion at the end of it was that it makes no sense because "There is no such thing as Made in America." Implied was that the correlation of provenance with quality was also a fool's errand as he'd chosen to buy a car that was made in China. 

As for what Made in Japan means - for me I tend mean something along the lines of "woven, designed and assembled in" - but as I stipulated above, the Japanese stuff I mostly gravitate towards really just come from a certain subset of brands that have been filtered to me through various retailers that I tend to associate with something along the lines of reinterpreting certain vintage American products that were considered unremarkable, ubiquitous and generally unpretentious (this really means to me blue jeans, jackets, sweat/t/waffleknit wear/military-esque standard issue) with a level of obsessive detail and with materials that I can't currently find in America - or if I can - at a price point that is better. 

29 minutes ago, ColonelAngus said:

I don’t baby my clothes either. I have a pair of shorts from a Japanese brand, who shall remain nameless, that didn’t live up to my expectations. Within the first year the front button came off, which I sewed back on, and then the right front pocket bag developed a gaping hole, presumably from my keys. Now, I get that denim/shorts will wear and tear faster than tops but a button falling off and pocket bag holes isn’t what I expected in the first year considering how much I paid for them. Made me a little irritated that I likely could’ve gotten more mileage out of a cheap $30 pair of shorts from Target.

Why keep them nameless?

I guess I'm old school but it's not some evil deed to issue well deserved and honest spirited criticism. I guess that's what going through a career in arts and journalism does to you, but I wish people would get more critical and that the recipients not see it as a personal attack. It would be useful for the forum. Like, when I say my warehouse jean stitching is comparatively fragile, it doesn't mean I don't like the individuals involved or that I wish the brand ill will. It does mean I probably won't buy them again unless there are direct reports of efforts to increase cotton stitching durability as other brands seem to have little problem doing. 

On 6/3/2023 at 8:30 AM, Hopethisoneisnttaken said:

Anybody else here experiences the “if it’s not Japanese than I’m not buying it” syndrome? Even if I know the quality is there, even if I know the western body design will fit my body better, it still doesn’t matter and I keep thinking “if it was Japanese it was probably better”. I know I’m obviously wrong, it’s just a voice in my head that keep popping. 

I still think that it’s mostly limited to a few brands doing better raw denim than anywhere else - but it’s not about the quality moreso the whole package. That, and if I want something closer to a vintage “American” garment but new I think they’ll do the better - or maybe just more desirable for me versions (trousers or whatever else). I’ve had a few pretty disappointing mij things as well. 

For most other stuff I don’t think that way. Esp things like pullovers/sweaters. 
 

I do think that - at least here in the US - if you get some MIJ stuff from Japan they are a better value for the quality than something comparable from domestic retailer. I’ve gotten a few knits from Jackman over the past year - straight from Japan - and while not cheap they are fantastic quality esp for the Japanese price. 

20 hours ago, Double 0 Soul said:

I’ve never bought a pair if socks, certainly none of the lifestyle product types.. I have a drawer full of them, I tend to get a couple of pairs for xmas.

they’re not something I ever consider, i pull a pair on in the morning and never give them a second thought so I suppose they’ve succeeded in being socks.. if I could sense I was wearing them/discomfort I would have to reconsider but honestly, they’re just fine.

I certainly wouldn’t import them from abroad when they’re available on most high streets,  if your socks are constantly getting holes it’s probably down to ill fitting footwear...

I wear the same pair of cheap socks for cycling to work.. working on my feet all day in my workshop.. ride home and landscaping the garden till it goes dark, 14hr/day not once do I give them a second thought, I just don’t pamper myself in that regards. controversial maybe but  socks are socks.. I can think of better ways of squeezing enjoyment out of £20. 

This is usually how I feel about T shirts and plenty of other things but I would pay even more for the good socks than I do because they really make my life that much better and actually play a huge role in keeping me properly warm where I live. I’ve tried to find comparable ones stateside but no luck so far. I’m in a wool hat and wool socks a full 6 months of the year or more, and it’s not even that cold where I am but I feel better for it - and this time of year I tend not to wear socks at all. The cheap ones don’t cut it usually - I’m either going good socks or no socks most of the time. Not too many items impact physical comfort as much as good socks for me. 

8 hours ago, julian-wolf said:

Mohair is def. my favorite sock material. I'd never heard of Corrymoor, and was very excited to read about them—but it's disappointing that they're only 68% wool. I expect that most socks have some synthetic component, as it seems to help a lot with longevity, but above around 15% it seems to cut into the feel, and the utility, a little too much for my liking. I still may try a pair or two, but I'm skeptical.

For now—and for the past ~5+ years—Tender Co. has been my every-day top choice. At this point I don't really wear anything else—they're the most consistent staple of my wardrobe. The mohair are my favorites, but the standard wool are also really great for when it's not too hot or too cold.

I can’t tell a difference between my corrymoor and tender mohair socks. So much so that I wonder if they source William with the socks. So yea, I love my Tender ones too. I just have one pair but they’re interchangeable w the other mohairs. 

1 hour ago, buler said:

Have you owned any Darn Tough socks?  Saying they "don't hold a candle" seems a bit strong. I have over 20 pair of Darn Tough and have owned some for 8-10 years. No holes, no problems. They make everything from over the calf snowboarding socks to thin no shows. I wear them year round from 90+ to below zero weather. If someone asks for a sock recommendation, I have no hesitation to recommend them. GoBros.com routinely has them on 25% off sales if anyone is interested in trying them.

I have yeah, it's what I got before the corrymoor ones. the darn tough ones were the best I'd found, and for me now they're not even close. I run cold generally and the mohair wicks moisture a lot better (especially after the socks are worn in, in my experience the darn tough ones lose their magic in about a year - haven't hit that point in longer trials with the mohair ones). 

14 minutes ago, buler said:

I tried a ton of different socks. Once I found Darn Tough socks, that's it. They are so awesome. Worth every penny.

They don't hold a candle to Corrymoor Mohair socks IMO. Only prob is they're a little spendy and shipping is super slow from UK - they use royal mail and don't give discounts for multiple pairs. But I'm going on my 5th year of regular rotation of my first pairs. The companion sock is the best thing I've found for basically any weather below 65F - and all throughout the winter - after that I'm often barefoot in my birds or just use regular cotton socks. 

I keep telling myself I’m done but no pocket flap and wider shoulders I have to think about it. Those will probably make it the most comfortable fit for my build. I do lack a proper type 1 (that isn’t flannel lined at least). Gah. 

I’m going just by impression and not measurements but my 1003xx - which came one wash - seem as if they’ve shrunk close to as much as a true raw pair would have over 4-5 washes. Length but also knees, thighs etc. Waist never a problem but they’ve gone from a pretty true straight to a slim straight basically. 

They carry Orslow in my local shop and I just don't love the stuff in person. It looks good but just isn't on the same level IMO as some of the other stuff that (unfortunately) my local shop doesn't carry. A look book in this corner of the clothing world is of less utility too I think, since other things not translated through on figure photos can matter a good bit. 

17 minutes ago, Double 0 Soul said:

You haven't Edwin's construction work!

Blue denim jacket with black jeans sends my ocd wild... hell no!

That's not cowboy though. Probably tougher on the clothes though.

Controversial maybe but I'm also a believer in blue and black denim (either combo)...sometimes. It depends. But totally doable. No rules! 

Good thing (almost?) none of us are cowboys and that most people who wore jeans weren't either. 

@indigoeagle funny I picked up this same tux a couple of weeks ago. I'll have to post my version soon. 

@CSL weren’t they like $300? 
As of 2-3 months ago you could still get standard model jeans from Japan for like ~200. The jacket wasn’t too much more either from what I recall. 

Congrats! That's a slog. 

Inis meáin / indigofera 

I was going strong in the indigoferas for awhile then a series of toddler events meant I had to wash them like 6 times in 2 weeks so now I wash and dry almost whenever and they’re marbled and have fade splotches (the gunpowder dye scrubs off a little easy) and they’re great and I don’t care. 

1 hour ago, bootsofmannishleather said:

Is there a jean that's pretty much like a Warehouse 1001xx but uses poly thread instead of 100% cotton thread? I'm thinking it would be nice to have the same fit with stitching that lasts longer.

LVC

or try Freewheelers or TCB - which have cotton thread, but still last a lot longer. 

Am I the only one who just can't get into any Lee or Wrangler designs (past or present)?

Can't put my finger on it with Lee. Wrangler goes way too cowboy for my tastes, I know that's the issue there. Not trying to flame anyone doing those repros just sort of curious if I'm the only one. For me it's like Levi's designs or, if not, something totally different. 

@MJF9 I’ve only got a woad pair. I went a good while before the first wash - probably 4-5 months of wear -  but the thing with the blue garment dye is that it makes any fading appear a lot more gentle, almost dusty imo. I have a hunch the standard denim maybe takes a little longer (I think it’s 25 dips - that’s a lot, and it’s really dark) but it comes alive more dramatically. For me, I love the look of some regular washing after the initial wear period. The fading is a mix of wear lines and marbling. I’m still on the fence about whether or not to pick up a standard or garment dyed version for my next pair. My 129s don’t get as much regular wear atm because I love where they’re at and am in no hurry to fade them more, and bc I tend to wear a lighter denim from April - Oct or so. 

16 hours ago, bloom said:

Photo above came to mind after seeing Mr. Uncle Frank post his freshly cleaned TCB in the other thread.

Working my way slowly through this thread from the beginning, both out of interest and to avoid too much repetition. Not sure I’ll succeed. But these popped up early on. Anyone know whether these are quilts from Gee’s Bend?

I can’t accurately verify offhand but they sure look like it. Great find. For me, my favorite post in this thread. But then my mom is a textile artist and made me quilt of mashed up 80s denim when I was a kid. 

@bloom - it's a great jacket, my favorite denim design that's not obviously repro oriented. So much so that I have it in 2 fabrics.

FWIW, there are a few left, though neither are the woad version, and sizes are limited. https://www.tenderstores.com/product/type-900-jacket/?variation=28411 

Tender is a personal favorite for me - I've got more pieces from William's brand than from any other maker (mostly jackets, a few sweaters and one pair of jeans - for now). The denim used (as discussed recently in another thread) is its own sort of special. 

35 minutes ago, rodeo bill said:

 

Ulysse Nardin on a new natural cork strap, Tender 122

122 eh? 

I’ve got the flannel lined FW type 1 (516xx), and the FC 2107 (unworn, maybe selling). The FC denim is a bit lighter and will definitely be softer with wear more quickly. The FW is more cleanly stitched and constructed all around. The FC pocket feels a little oversized. They’re both nice jackets. To my mind the reason to get the FullCount is the denim itself - which is really appealing to a lot of people.
I like trying different brands but at this point I’m pretty convinced (like others here) that the FW stuff is just a notch better all around - and even moreso with FCs price hikes. 

I recently ordered a type 2, which is something I'm missing - and I didn't even think about getting it from someone other than freewheelers at this point. I just don't think there is a better maker out there for repro oriented stuff. Different, yes, but for standard repro denim wares, not better. That's a broad claim but it's my experience. YMMV.

x posting from full count thread.

I've got a size 40 type 1 (2107), and 0105 (wide) jeans size 30 (chainstitch hemmed to 30.5") both one wash NWT in my closet. 

Realizing I may not get to them, if anyone is looking for either of those pieces I may let them go for near JPY retail. I'm not aggressively looking to sell but I don't like having new pieces on ice really, so will ship them out if it's worth it. I can send pics on request, but they've only ever been tried on. 

I've got a size 40 type 1 (2107), and 0105 (wide) jeans size 30 (chainstitch hemmed to 30.5") both one wash NWT in my closet. 

Realizing I may not get to them, if anyone is looking for either of those pieces I may let them go for near JPY retail. I'm not aggressively looking to sell but I don't like having new pieces on ice really, so will ship them out if it's worth it.