cause4pause

Thanks. If the waistband gives 1.5-2", I might be safe. 

But damn the beer and wine. That's the cause of my flab. 

This could be a really broad topic depending on how it's interpreted, and I've very little experience in the hobby compared to most of you here. "Sought after" could imply rarity, highly desirable or both and may refer to discontinued denim, specific cuts, or even entire brands. But if I were allowed to interpret the thread as a discussion about what we each perceive to be highly desirable brands/cuts/fabric, then this would be my little opinion on the five that's desirable (based on personal experience and some reading):

• Tanuki Red Cast fabric (chosen on the basis of denim alone): If there is one pair of jeans in my wardrobe that I genuinely miss, it's these. I grew out of them as they were just starting to look nice. If I could find this denim in an appropriate cut today (new and around RRP), I would run and pounce, not walk, to my wallet and drop my money on them immediately. This is a fabric that has a slight purple hue when raw and just after the first wash, giving way to a beautiful sapphire-blue speckly fade with wear. It holds up well to a lot of washing as well while still returning moderate to high contrast fading. My pair seems to show what I think is three-dimensional fading, which highlights shape when those jeans are worn and giving them a lovely form. Tanuki has a sketchy backstory and rather unclear provenance (Kiya of SE says they are owned and run by Denimio, and I've seen that claim in more than one place), but IMHO, this fabric proves they do know their denim. And in my experience of giving two of their jeans a run-in, I'd say their quality is just fine.

• Graph Zero 16 oz Herringbone (chosen on basis of denim, cut, details, quality): GZ has epic levels of cool, perhaps reaching or even surpassing the levels of Kapital and FDMTL. I have a lightly faded pair in their 16oz herringbone fabric that is a great slim-straight cut in a fabric that is known to fade spectacularly. Mine is starting to demonstrate some high contrast fading and I'm really encouraged by that example shown in GZ's IG post. Doesn't hurt that they are serious quality in construction and detail, while being a fraction of the price of what Kapital offers. GZ is a fun brand, and you get that vibe from their IG feed. And their cuts are pretty accessible to most body types. It might seem funny to talk about $160 jeans as being "good value for money", but I figured it might hold some water in a forum like this. They are extremely underrated and should get more patronage.

• The Flat Head (chosen on basis of denim, details and quality): examples of amazing fades abound at this site itself, and FH appears to be one of those brands that's had their heyday and now forgotten in preference of other brands. But I love the level of detail in their jeans and their burly, durable fabric that holds up really nicely to frequent washes while rewarding with high contrast fading and tate-ochi. From what I've been reading, I get the impression that the founder, Kobayashi-san, is more interested in making products with detail and quality, rather than cost and profit margin. It may have contributed to the downfall of his company (which subsequently needed to be propped up with an injection of capital), however I admire that dedication to the craft, at the expense of everything else that is practical. I outgrew a pair of 1002 that was looking beautiful even after just a short period of wear, and now have a carpenter's style 8005A in my rotation that has quirky triple-needle stitching in both the outseam and inseam, plus an additional side pocket. And of course, that crispy, inky (almost black) denim with visible vertical streaking. The cuts don't necessarily work for everyone, with common complaints about unusable front pockets or really low rises. But they are perfect for me. Amongst all my jeans, nothing flatters my arse better than my Flat Head jeans. They just look that good!

• Roy (chosen on basis of denim, details and quality): I feel like it would be impossible to complete a list like this without at least mentioning this legend and his story. In general, his cuts don't work for me, as they are significantly more roomy than I'd like, and those giant front rises just make me look shorter than I already am. Hence there's a pair of these languishing in my wardrobe. But what I can admire however, is the quality of construction, which is the most obsessive I have seen in any pair of jeans I've ever owned. A seriously high stitch-per-inch count with perfect stitchwork and perfect chain-stitching resulting in equally perfect roping. Plus, the black seed denim he uses is proprietary and now extinct. It just so happens it also fades extremely well, just very slowly. However I think the allure of his brand and products is really from the man himself. When we think, or imagine, those jeans being made by his hands from scratch, and his hands only, with those amazing vintage machines in a dilapidated warehouse, that's when they become even more mythical. His jeans really could be collectibles amongst raw denim aficionados. Today, if you want jeans made by his machines, you gotta look at $800 Buaisou pants. I wouldn't call Roy a jeansmaker. More accurately, he is a master craftsman who just happens to make clothes.

• APC (chosen on the basis of denim and cut): their cuts won't work for everyone, but for me, they are just about perfect. Their New Standard is a really great cut for peeps who are built slim and lanky, but they are really quite famous for their Petit Standard as well which is even narrower and low-rise. Some of APC's biggest fans have been bold enough to state "nothing fades quite like APC", said in the tone of "APC fades the best". That's a debatable claim in my book. But proof is in the pudding. And there's plenty of fades at this forum to show it. APC does fade fast, and in an attractive fashion. Their cuts are a French kiss...if you're of a certain body type. I have a New Standard and a Petit Standard, both taken off the local marketplace for less than $40 all up. My wife even noticed the PS the day I donned them. "Nice jeans", she says. Can't say she's ever said that about any of my other jeans.

As promised, couple of fit pics.

Does anyone have experience on how the old '66 fabric is expected to behave and stretch? I can literally just get these buttoned. I do need to lose a couple of kilos.

NWOT apparently. But still, that price is pretty rich. I should sell mine at half the price since it's worn a bit. I could never jive with the fit, but a great piece for sure. 

Dayum, is it still possible to buy Somet jeans? 

Wow, Kiya, thanks for the details. Mystery solved. So these aren't that old. Also the fabric is not even 14oz yet feels like a monster for stiffness. Maybe I've become weak in my older age. 

11 hours ago, mpukas said:

@cause4pause those are not the typical xx05 cut that I, and probably most folks here, would think of. I'm not a TFH historian, and don't anything of that model. I suspect those to be a rare pair. No idea if that 18oz denim is the same as the 18oz in the 8002 I have from a couple years ago. Nice score, and enjoy!

5 hours ago, Cold Summer said:

That... is pretty fascinating. Never saw that model before, it doesn't follow the present TFH naming convention for what an 8005A should be (3005s with 18 oz, natural indigo mix fabric.) But I also don't think they're a super early model because they use the arcs that appeared from 2007~2008 onward. I think this might be a special collab pair or some sort of sample, as I don't recall any TFH jeans with this sort of jean work-paint hybrid design.

Thanks for the opinions. Looks we might never know in its entirety, apart from a guess that they are 18oz. Due to the construction, I also don't see a selvedge line anywhere, except in the front right pocket where the denim joins the pocket bag (but not in the usual spot at the coin pocket opening).

Originally bought these thinking I'd save it for the Indigo Invitational next year. But after seeing them in the flesh, I'm not so sure. Seems a pity to thrash these as quickly as possible in the space of a year, which is what the competition is all about.

As a follow-up to the previous query, I decided to buy those jeans, and putting up some photos here in case anyone knows much about them. They look like a rather old, deadstock pair. Interesting features like a cinch back, triple-needle (?) chainstitching for the yoke and entirety of the outseam and inseam (also felled). Chambray pocket bags. Only the top fly button is branded on both sides. The other 4 are donut buttons with a branded back. Exposed back pocket rivets and a pen pocket.

Low-rise, true slim-straight fit with about 8.5" leg openings and a 36" inseam when raw. Some listings I've seen reference 18oz natural indigo fabric, but I wouldn't have a clue if that's true. They legit feel like armor at the moment, and for the first time in my denim career, I am NOT looking forward to breaking these things in. I might even need to lose a bit of weight as they could be a tough fit after shrink. They are pretty awesome however. I miss my old Flat Head 1002 after growing out of them. And this just reminds me of those. The fabric looks rather interesting, and the whole pair has a high-end feel.

On 11/2/2022 at 8:43 AM, Lazerr said:

@cause4pause Had both the 8002 and the 3002 in a size 36 and for the most part, all the measurements were similar. The 8002 being heavier denim did shrink a tad more for me, but the fabric is still similar to the 14oz and stretched to what it was prior. I don't have either anymore so I can't really give you much update on how they are after a few years. 

On 11/4/2022 at 4:11 AM, mpukas said:

@cause4pause I have the 18oz 8002 size 34 from SE. LOVE TFH 18oz denim. It's so burly and intense. The cut is way too slim & tight for me, so I don't wear them. I have 3009 size 36 which is a much looser size and more comfortable fit on me. I've found the 14oz denim shrinks and stretches a bit more than the 18oz. Once the 18oz shrunk, it didn't stretch out quite as much as the 14oz does. 

Sorry about getting back here late. Thanks for both of your comments and advise. I asked since there was a 8005 available locally. I thought these were a looser fit than the 8009 and 8002, but that thigh measurement really turned out far narrower than expected. Thinking I might need to view those and measure it myself. If they shrink anything like the 14oz then it also means the waist will probably lose 3 inches, which is not a deal breaker provided they come back with 2 inches or so of stretch.

Hey folks, does anyone have experience with the 18oz denim, or the 8XXX series? How does shrink and stretch compare to the 14oz 3XXX and 16oz 1XXX series? Thanks. 

Fit pic with the LVC 50s-XX. I think these are going to be slow faders, especially being a weekend pair, but that fabric looks great.

Some progress pics and closeup photos of my Somet 005 at about 4-5 months of wear and a bunch of washes. For some reason, they've aged a lot faster than expected, faster than all of my other jeans. The crotch area is thinning out in a few spots and will probably blow out in a little while. These were hemmed at Blue in Green (at time of purchase), worn a bit, then tapered at Williamsburg Garment Company as I found the combination of greying fabric and straight leg fit gave off too much of a "dad vibe".

Dark spots on the fabric and leather patch are from moisture on the dewy morning grass.

Although not pictured, the fly buttons have gold coloured brass posts. Subtle detail.

Gold-plated rivets. Even the backs of these rivets are gold-plated. Still shiny.

Himeji leather patch. It started off bright white and aged to a shade of cream. These leather patches are naturally bleached in the waters of the Ichi River.

Offset back belt loop.

Roping from the hemming done at BiG.

I could be wrong, but the selvedge line in this fabric was probably always a faded pink instead of true red. During the time of searching, all pairs seemed to have the same type of selvedge line, and all of them were made in 1999.

Curious to see if this particular model from LVCJ was ever made in other years and with other fabrics. 

Since I've spent most of my raw denim time with Japanese brands, I thought it would be good to try a pair of LVC. This pair of LVCJ 50s-XX from 1999 popped up at a reasonable price and almost unused condition. Seller measured it smaller than it really was and it stretches easily with wear. I could have gone down a size or even two The inseam also turned out a good deal longer than I wanted, as I hoped to rock them with a short inseam, ivy style. It's a comfortable fit without looking too baggy, and I'm liking that high rise for a change. Doesn't even need a belt to stay up.

The construction seems a bit sloppier than I've grown used to seeing in my other pairs, with ample amounts of loose thread ends throughout, but I'm very happy with them nevertheless. Fabric is quite interesting too, grainy and bumpy, some fluffiness, and just a bit crispy.

Some of the colours look a lot warmer than in real life, courtesy of that early morning sun. But here's a bunch of photos of some jeans on dewy grass, taken by some weirdo at about 7 in the morning.

@Cold Summerthanks, most appreciated.

Would anyone know what sort of cotton Flat Head uses for their denim? Quite a few pages back, I believe Kiya mentioned Zimbabwe cotton in their 18oz fabric. 

What about their 16oz and 14oz denim? 

On the topic of Japanese-made Levi's, can any fans comment on the quality of denim and construction, compared to well-respected Japanese brands?

How does the quality of the MIJ pairs compare to those from USA?

An old pair of black Denime jeans. The fabric of these is lovely, a bit of slub inside and out, but they really don't seem to fade much. Leg twist on the left leg has brought the selvedge line to the front. And I enjoy how the fit is slim but seems to flare out ever so slightly at the hem.

Hermes apparently does the same thing. Fill up a quota of purchases at a local boutique, demonstrate appropriate behaviour (geez I might need to put on an accent and ditch the hoodie before I stroll into the store), and the boutique may offer the chance to purchase their most desired products.

But even Hermes does not prohibit the buyer from putting their item on the second hand market.

Nevertheless, it's frightening that some of us would accept this as a cost of admission. Such is the price of prestige. 

@Denimstoyevskylooking good there, got measurements? A bit hard to measure from across the sea, I understand. Just checking if you measured them before.

@Denimstoyevskywhat are the OG 2008 jeans? Do you have any photos? Pity for them to go to waste. 

@Denimstoyevskyvery candidly put, and true. Although on the other hand it could be a suggestion to accept their ill-fitting nature and just wear them! 

We occasionally come across photos of jeans in their well-worn state along with fit pics, and the owner stating he/she wasn't completely happy with the fit but still wore them as they didn't own/buy anything else. Those jeans almost always look great and many of us couldn't level any criticism at the fit.

Those examples probably reflect Roy's words about how jeans, no matter their cut, take on the shape of their user. With continued use they will look incredible, in spite of their fit (and whether we're happy with it or not). For me, it's a rather interesting philosophy to consider since I probably ditch jeans too soon because of some unhappiness with the fit, when I should have given things more time.

Trawling through Roy's little website tonight was a great exercise. On the surface, there wasn't much on there. Then I found some interesting reading here while reclining with a glass of red. 

Roy: "Most jeans, in spite of the cut, will essentially look the same on you as all other jeans. This is because denim fabric stretches out for comfort and literally takes the shape of the wearer...in my experience, the issues most folks are attempting to solve with “the perfect fit” are really more body issues than a fit issue...the issues most folks are compelled to improve are things that observers of the wearer rarely have issue with. Conversely the “solutions” that the wearer employs often cause the majority of observers to scratch their heads."

This was so curious I had to read it several times as I was so fixated on looking for jeans that fit well. It seems to say that body shape makes a bigger difference to the fit and look of those jeans, rather than the cut of the jeans. 

I may have been overly concerned about small issues that really were not worth fixing. This also seems to suggest that in trying to find a better fit, we could be making things worse! 

Then perhaps, we shouldn't take things too seriously. 

Roy: "We’re all wearing costumes that try to convey something about who we are, so express yourself and don’t worry too much about it."

Followed by this gem of a closing statement,

Roy: "Jeans are essentially an ill-fitting garment by design and this is what gives them their unique look." 

A timely reminder to wear it, own it, and have fun. 

@Jared_Leejust my opinion but that fit is 0% oversized and 100% badass. That's the kind of straight-ish fit I'll be aiming to get. Looks great!