Artisandenim

Quick question, with samurai does the weight or type of denim have more of an influence on shrinkage?

After 2 soaks one wash and wearing for a couple of weeks the shrink seems to have gone from my 710's so I've just had them hemmed to 32" which is perfect for me. I had already had them hemmed before sending to 36" and they lost a further two to shrink.

I am just about to order a pair of s5000vx (21oz) and am intending to ask for them to be hemmed to 34" in anticipation of the same 2" loss. I will also be looking to get a pair of s03jp (15oz) and do the same...

Is this wise considering the different cotton and different weights used?

Max I totally agree, however the request was NOT raw and NOT selvedge.

Who am I to question?

Up until very recently - and for the last ten or so years - all my denim has been designer In various forms. I have tried all the brands I mentioned above and many more. Of all of the not raw not selvedge designer denim I owned the PRPS stood out (for me personally) as some of the best fitting and having interesting detail.

That is why I suggested it, not because I thought it was better but because I thought that was what was being asked.

To be honest I fully expected to be negged to shit, but I'd rather attempt to be helpful than keep quiet because I was scared of a red square....!

One lives and learns :-)

@waisianman: having personally just moved from premium denim to raw selvedge, I can only assume that you don't want the hassle, effort and guess work that comes with breaking in and fading a pair of raws.. I don't think I could ever go back after just getting my first pair of raws, but each to their own!

That being the case then and assuming you want interesting washes or distressed, you should look at PRPS. Their washes are unique and well done (check out this seasons sulphur washes) and their denim is still made to a high quality using Zimbabwe cotton. Look to the PRPS Japan or PRPS noir (budget permitting) ranges but AVOID their lower range goods & co. From what you have said you would probably like their 'fury' cut.

For Interesting cuts and style with good construction, variation and materials look to Acne and Rag & bone. For coated slim styles look to belstaff, and to Balmain for ultra slim beautifully detailed biker denim.

As for chinos you can't go wrong with incotex/slowear - luxury construction & materials. Acne have also released an interesting range this season. For a wild card have a look at Moncler new season chinos - I haven't seen a pair in the flesh yet but I have a lot of moncler clothing, all of which is beautifully cut & styled and of the highest quality.

There are probably plenty of people in here who could advise on chinos from some of the raw denim stockists but if you are intent on avoiding those then this should help.

Any tips you guys have to avoid crotch rips?  

Mate, I've been doing a fair bit of research recently and it appears that the main cause of crotch blowouts is not washing your jeans. Basically your sweat soaks into the cotton - particularly in this area - and bacteria feast on the smorgasbord of minerals and nutrients this contains, seriously weakening the natural fibres of the cotton as they go. So options seem to be:

A) wash your jeans

stop your bollocks from sweating

C) embrace the dark side and just have them repaired when needed!

Hope this helps, really liking those fades.

B-sandy, I'm actually ok with that detailing, it is more the fit and fabric I'm concerned with - thanks for the tips with those!

B_f - ah, the straighter cut was worrying me but I was thinking that if I got it in one of the heavier weights I could have them as a cold weather/rough & ready pair and wear them with boots.... Is the vx denim noticeably different from the xx? I'm a bit clueless on that score!

I've had to postpone my next London trip by a couple of weeks so am going to console myself with something new. Fancy a different type of denim so am thinking of sj003p or s500vx (haven't decided which weight yet - plan to get one lighter and one heavier than my 710's in the near future).

I am aware that the 3p are slimmer and lower rise than most and I don't have a problem with that. I am more worried that the vx will be too loose/high if I'm honest...

Anyone with any experience with these like to express an opinion? Or suggest an interesting alternative?

Flash & Cander - if I've got anything like that to look forward to with mine then happy days man, Happy days indeed!

Mpukas - mate, those are proper Brando, they look great! think I'm too skinny to pull off a more comfortable fitting jean, which is a shame because I really like the look of that heavy denim.

12a7 - don't know if you've done it already but I machine washed mine yesterday - 40 degree hand wash setting, no spin after, tiny bit of apc x aesop fine fabric care liquid. After drying you can see the vertical white threads clearer but you would only notice the difference in the indigo if you knew to look for it.. Size wise, it made pretty much bugger all difference. I won't say I wish I hadn't bothered but I will say I didn't need to bother.

Edit: meant to say already done 2 hot soaks before machine wash prior.

Nice one Slavo, glad they made it! Fit looks bang on, soak and a hem - sorted.

Mpukas - keep us informed on those 25oz, I've been wondering...

^ what he said.

If you can wait until Monday I'll be putting mine in for a 40 degree machine wash and will let you know how that turns out re: indigo loss (and how much extra shrinkage).

If you can't wait and just go for it - post the results!

just dried (almost) from second soak. Tiny bit more snug all over, maybe a couple of cms more off the inseam. Nothing worth measuring but might just be enough for what I wanted. 

cheers Slavo.

Yep, mine lost very little anywhere other than waist/inseam. Inseam lost almost exactly 2 inches.

Just about to take them out of their second soak so will let you know if that makes any difference.

 

It's common practice to specify the total inseam length you want them hememd to. Because if you say "chop off 2 cm" how can they be sure you also factored in the length loss for rolling/folding the new hem? To say the exact length you want the jeans to be is the saefst way.

 

 

 

 

That was pretty much what I could make out the reply from 2nd said!

 

Yep, bit of a schoolboy error on my part! If I had thought about it properly at the time i might have figured that out, but well, too excited, you know how it is 

Cheers Max and b F.

 

I agree, it was worth it for the pic!

 

I'm not going to expect miracles with the second soak, but at least i can be sure i've got the majority of shrinkage out before making any adjustments.

Post soak measure measurements:

 

Waist         - 14

Inseam      - 34

Thigh        - 11.1

Knee         - 8.1

Front rise  - 10.2

Rear rise  - 13.7

Hem         - 7.3

 

And fit:

 

 

 

 

 

I love em.

 

Have chucked them in for another soak this morning to try and lose some more from that inseam. If there's not much difference ( which I doubt there will be) i'll consider having them hemmed another inch or so.

 

Absolutely love the feel and the detail and the Mrs is now starting to understand what all the fuss was about too. 

 

Thanks for all your help people.

Quick soak - warm/hot water bit of salt for 4 hours:

 

 

Then a hang dry in the garden - first decent sun of the year - under my cherry tree:

 

 

Seemed like a good idea at the time - hanging them under a Japanese cherry tree in blossom, very traditional and all that, but I wouldn't advise it - they eneded up absolutely covered in cherry blossom pollen. Not a good look.

Ok, after taking less than a day to travel the 5902 miles from Japan to the UK, the parcel then took 6 days to get 113 miles from parcel farce Coventry hub to me. Admittedly it was in customs for 2 days but still...It would have been even longer but I trooped down to the local depot on Saturday morning (after phoning first thing and them saying it wasn't there) and picked them up. And yes, I got bummed by customs & parcel farce to the tune of £70.

 

So to business...

 

Fresh from the package measurements: (important to note that I had already requested that they be hemmed to 36" -  tip: 2nd find it much easier to understand if you specify the length you want them, rather than the length you want removed. In cms. I originally asked for them to remove 2" and got a reply from a very confused chap trying to explain that taking off 2cms would be a bit pointless. I said ok - please make the inseam 91 cms and this was understood and done.)

 

Edit: sorry, meant to say , these are tag size 29.

 

Waist         - 14.75

Inseam      - 36

Thigh        - 11.5

Knee         - 8.5

Front rise - 10.5

Rear rise  - 14

Hem          - 7.5

 

Fit pre soak:

 

 

 

 

 

Damn, those buttons were stiff...

I read the 'Rivet & Hide' thread from start to finish earlier today and was genuinely impressed and inspired. Total fan boy of Dannys business ethic and personal ethos. Haven't come across anything quite like it before.

Looking forward to another place to visit on my London trips. Definitely wish them all the best on this venture.

They didn't have my size in the 15th anniversary edition (don't know why that made a difference to me but there you go) so I went with 2nd.

Sincerely hope it works out better for you than it has me though dude. Mine have been siting in customs all week, changed today to 'awaiting charging'' and has stayed the same all day.

A bit of digging reveals that British customs are having a massive clampdown on all imports from the Far East. Mainly I believe for counterfiet goods from China but catching everyone else in the crossfire...

Good luck mate!

Once you'd washed them, your gut would actually have been saying "No way José, don't put those things near me! Are you trying to strangle me?!"

 

Bahahahaha!

 

Brain: warned you fool - Suck in and suck it up!

 

^^ nice score! yeah that inseam was way too short for me

 

^you would need a proxy like Sutocorp that will do the bidding for you. Pretty simple if you know how it works. You would just need to write them an email with a link to the item you want and your maximal bid.

 

Please stop 'helping' me. I'm well on the path to over indulgence as it is. 

I'm sort of almost glad I have no idea how to go about ordering those...

I just saw the ones on your fit guide and they look great. Probably looser than im used to but that's not a bad thing. I was thinking about a lighter weight pair just in case we get a day of summer in the uk this year. All my other pipeline purchases are quite weighty.

710s STILL stuck in customs. Got a baaaad feeling about this....

/\ /\ /\ Art - You're talking unwashed right? I'd be a bit careful if you're about to blow £300, mate.

 

Rudy is a good guy - ask the shop, if they advise you wrong it's on them.

Yep, I thought the same thing....

I took the 'safe' option in in the end and sized up one (from the size I tried on) which is actually down one from my usual tts. Have to see how that works out....

After a bit of moral wrangling I actually ordered them from 2nd. I've said something about this on the small shops thread. I've seen some interesting comments from you on there.

Cheers for the advice mate.

I'm just going to weigh in here...

 

Please bear in mind that up to a month ago, my idea of 'proper' denim was the many pairs of PRPS, True Religion, Dolce & gabanna and A.P.C. that I owned - and was pleased with. I had heard vague rumblings about this mythical Japanese denim but had not come across any.

 

That changed when I walked into SOAS and realised I might just as well bin my whole jeans collection. My experience there was this:

 

Got a smile on entering from a lady (Linda) and a nod form a chap (Dan). Was then left to my own devices to wander around. After 5 mins or so when it became clear that I was friggin clueless and well out of my depth, Linda came to offer me some help. After a discussion on types of fit and sizing etc, Linda went off and selected a bunch of Jeans. Before I was allowed to try them on I was given a brief history and description of both each brand and denim. After much fitting and deliberation I had narrowed my choice down to Full Count 1108XX (Loved the fit and comfort), Samurai 710xx (Loved the detailing, feel, silhouette and well just something....) and Oni secret denim 20oz (Amazing texture, totally different).

 

Linda was great through the whole process and Dan was popping over between jobs too - Showing me pictures of his own Oni's pre/post soak and giving his opinion and experience on my various choices.

 

At no stage did I feel pressured, rushed or hassled, and the advice and service i received was quite frankly amazing. Please people, do not confuse passion, enthusiasm and a genuine desire to share knowledge as anything other than a really good thing.

 

Only problem was the whole 'Raw Revelation' was a bit overwhelming so I decided to take a 'time out' to have a beer, think over what I had just learnt and rope the Mrs in for a second opinion. Long story short, the Mrs was visiting a friend in South London, there was a tube strike and by the time she managed to get across town to me, several hours had passed and well, I was drunk as a skunk.... 

 

We were only down in London for a short while (I am from London but am currently living on the other side of the country) to visit friends & family and I did not get a chance to return to the shop.

 

When I got home I thought (as any sensible person would) that I would do a bit more research before spending £920 on 3 pairs of jeans I had only just found out about. The price was not a problem as such - I think only my A.P.C's were any cheaper - but I had caught the bug and wanted to delve in a bit more.

 

That was when my moral dilemma hit - I soon found out I could get the same jeans, at a considerable saving from Japan. (example 710xx - £320 SOAS, £150 from 2nd. add - £20 postage, £20 duty, £40 VAT total £230.). Thats worst case scenario - best case, it sails through customs meaning total = £170. Thats a £150 saving, or another way of looking at it, a free pair of full counts from denimio/Okayama (nearly).

 

HOWEVER... I agree with Mr Friedman and others that a physical store is a precious resource & should be cherished, and there are many factors to deserve the premium (Dan & Linda - did not speak to Rudy although he was milling around and did introduce himself, advice, knowledge, service, chain stitch alterations while you wait, trying the items on, instant second opinion, stock you just cant find anywhere else or wouldn't think to consider, and dammit just a good way to spend some of your day), and many reasons for the mark up (The horribly expensive rents in the brick Lane area, import taxes and duties, bills, staff etc etc)  I also agree that people who regularly visit shops with no intention of purchasing, just using the shops knowledge and resources, are arseholes.

 

I especially feel that after my experience ( and the fact I would not be here discussing this if it were not for that shop) It would be wrong not to put my pounds in their pockets (SOAS). I f you know what I mean.

 

I have decided that on my next trip to London (couple of weeks) I will be returning to SOAS with a clear view to purchasing at least one new pair (almost definitely the Onis perhaps the Full Count too). In the meantime however I have ordered a a pair of 710xx from 2nd to be getting on with. Lets face it - there is doing the right thing and then there's being a mug. They are currently stuck in customs so I assume I am about to be bent over by Her Majestys Customs & Excise. Dammit.

 

Anyway, sorry to go on, hope I haven't screwed this thread up - I am very new to this. Just wanted to put the point across that yes, shops will carry a premium in the West but the reasons should be understood, the benefits respected and the shops supported where possible. If budget does not allow this, or you just don't feel like paying the premium that's fair enough too, but don't be a dick and take advantage of the shop, giving nothing in return. THAT is why I am specifically going back to make a purchase I could almost definitely do cheaper online.

 

Will this continue when I feel I know enough not to need a shops services anymore? Who knows, probably though - you get a good day out and a chance to visit the many bars & pubs in the area. There are few better places in London to people watch for a few hours. Loads of interesting styles and of course its by far the best area  to play 'Hipster or Hobo' - clue: LOOK AT THEIR JEANS!!! Obvs. 

I have a pair of 710's, and I can tell you that my size 33's now measure about 35.5" in the waist, so no worries about the denim stretching in the waist. You won't get as much stretch in the thighs though, so just be careful there.

Thanks for that - it was the thigh that was a bit tight and causing concern. I think i'll go one up. Also the buttons!! I thought I was never going to get out of the changing room...

Thanks people, you've put my mind at rest and helped me regain focus. I think I always knew what was necessary but I had two voices arguing:

 

Gut: 'Those jeans are amazing. Get them now, what are you waiting for? So what if they are a bit tight - we can rock that, hell we can rock anything, get em get em, stop stalling'

 

Brain: 'Don't listen to that idiot - the one who always insists that we need extra, extra chili -  we all know how that works out. Yes they are amazing but do you really want to look like the ukulele/clavier/stylophone player in some random hipster band with yo' spray on jeans? Thought not - 1 up fool'.

 

etc etc

 

I'll throw up some pics as soon as - pre soak, post soak, fit etc.