entertainment!

Do the child's duck pants that are shown in Paul's book have a readable patch? I am curious about the origin of the patch design on the Oldest OIdest and other early models. Was this based on an original or just invented?

So what does Levi's call this model now?

The details of this vintage pair posted by roy6 seem relatively close to those of my LVC Oldest Oldest, except:

1 The suspender buttons on mine have the same font size for the "S.F. CAL" and it is separated from "LEVI STRAUSS & CO" by stars.

2 No patent date on my rivets, just "LS & Co SF"

3 The lettering on the rivets on the inside is embossed on LVC and seems to be raised on the originals.

Nice custom work,can you post a close up of the patch.

Patch from the Oldest Oldest. The same patch was used on the Valencia Street 1873 duck pants

Really like your modified (ie more accurate) oldest/oldest, apart from the arcuate, which imo is whack.

You should send the photos to Lvc/XX !

(cant rep you again as GTS)

How you enjoyin the ducks?

.

That arcuate always reminds me of a bird in the sky from a kitschy painting.

The ducks are wonderful. Absolutely one of my favorites. Thanks again.

I haven't been able to give rep to anyone (except our newcomer Sansome1877) on this thread including you for months and there have been many worthy posts .

Here are some pictures of the LVC "Oldest Oldest" with some modifications made by me. I moved the patch from the center to the side, flattened the rivets, and shortened the cinch strap with the buckle.

In line with some of the discussion that has been going on here, I always thought it was curious that the "Oldest Oldest" had press-on instead of sewn-on suspender buttons. It seems to me that press-on ones would be later.

I don't think it has been mentioned on this thread (though it has on a couple others), but there is a book coming out at the end of the month called Jeans of the Old West by Michael Harris from Schiffer Publishing. I have had a copy on pre-order for a while and have been really looking forward to seeing it.

Perhaps it is only a coincidence that Sansome1877's name is Mike.

Well put CTB, including the praise for crownzip!

Sometimes I see evo pictures of jeans where the wallet is still in the pocket and I wonder if that person has another wallet that they carry in a messenger bag because they are afraid to take the one in the pocket out and ruin the perfect fade.

I just wish I lived in SF.

Shiiiiiiiiit, I will wear a Mexican or Canadian Tux in ANY weather!!!

Easy to say when you live in the bay area!

We have been having a run of unbearably hot humid weather here in the garden state. Made it hard to wear even jeans and a t-shirt. The thought of CT or MT in August was daunting. September seems more like it.

I am still intrigued by the wine analogy that Paul brought up. But I have been thinking about it in terms of cabernet sauvignon, since that introduces the factor of development with age that isn't such a factor with sauvignon blanc.

Bordeaux and Levi's have a lot in common since both were/are the benchmark and both used their privileged status to foist a lot of inferior product on the world. Then came the upstarts: New World cabernet and Japanese jeans. The producers of both were extremely analytical and used the benchmarks as their inspiration and transcended the models in some ways. But at the same time, their products exaggerate the qualities of the original as almost all imitations do. Bordeaux in turn was forced to up its game to compete with the New World, but still remains less consistent due to the less predictable weather conditions relative to somewhere like California. But the best Bordeaux still develop in the most subtle ways in the long term, while California cabernets are impressive in their youth and have a less predictable future.

Cone denim could even be thought of as being like the grapes from the vineyards in Bordeaux: the consistent raw material, though that isn't to say it is possible to truly recreate the grapes or denim of an earlier era. Too many factors that influence production have changed.

On the question of wine turning into vinegar, though, the worst industrial swill is probably the least likely type of wine to turn into vinegar because these wines are made in sterile factory settings and have been filtered to death to remove all microbes and particulate matter, at the same time stripping the wine of complexity.

Now back to denim.

Canadian tuxedo is a great idea, even if it will be just for the picture for those of us that don't have beautiful 60 degree weather in the summer like you bastards in SF.

Check this japanese 44 LVC:

Yeah, SIX buttons...

That's a good way to conserve metal for the war effort!

ferchristsakesshuddupanddon'tstarttheslumberingbeastoffagain...

Can anyone post the photos, by the way? I love the pale stitching, very different from the contemporary pants. Must venture down to look at the 201 on display on Regent St, when I'm a free man, in a week or two.

Sorry, I'll keep my trap shut.

That is a beautiful jacket.

If the 201 series is the budget line, shouldn't an "authentic" reproduction be made out of inferior materials and have inferior construction?

Those look great Paul.

Glad to help.

Entertainment- where'd you get that story about Sutro tower's spires? I like it.

My sister, who used to live in the Marina, told me that story. This could all be urban legend, but the story was that having a view of the tower from a building was considered bad feng shui because the three masts of the tower were like the three horns of a devil.

Roy, that tower on Twin Peaks with the three horns is the Devil Tower. Does that mean you're the devil? Is that why you posed in front of it?

Nice jacket, by the way.

This shirt appears in a movie. Wardrobe departments modify commercially available clothes all the time. Removing a chinstrap would take a seamstress about five minutes.

I don't know of a precedent, and I personally prefer the look with a yoke. The early pair of youth overalls I saw at levi's did indeed have a yoke with single stitching. But I have heard rumours of new discoveries at levi's- perhaps this is connected. Hopefully I'll be having coffee with someone who knows the answer soon.

The first place I looked at was your book for that pair of youth waist overalls. As you say, they have a yoke as do all the other examples of early waist overalls with denim. The Rin Tanaka King of Vintage Heller's Cafe book also has an early pair of ducks that are listed as from the 1880s though IIRC, Dr Heech thought they were somewhat later. These have a yoke too. I hope your contacts at Levi's will have some interesting information for us.

I was just looking at the 1873 duck pants on the Oki-Ni website to compare them to the 555 ones that Dr Heech sold to me and noticed that the new production does not have a yoke but does have two pleats. I don't remember any other lvc repros without a yoke. I also looked at all the pictures of early jeans I could find and didn't see any without a yoke. The 555 ones have a yoke and no pleats.

Anybody know of a precedent for the yokeless design?

http://www.oki-ni.com/Mens-Jeans/Levis-Vintage-1873-Duck-Canvas-Jeans/invt/lev0101rig

I've got huge balls and went up one.

I meant to mention that but forgot. About your big balls.

Aw hell. Now I have to buy these. Torn between 35 and 34. Same size as PBJ 05s and Okis? 2 down from LVC 47?

Probably up at least two from Okis. 47s are too unreliable in sizing to judge from. What year?

Why not just follow ROY's advice from the website though? It's pretty clear.

The only real question is TTS or up one inch. The trend here is TTS unless you have big thighs.

they shurnk to a 31!!!!!!!!!! im really happy i didnt end up getting those, i guess tall people should be aware of that

They do tend to hang well below the crotch though, so you don't need as long an inseam as a pair of 47s.

so whats the measurement after washing for a size 36?

I posted the post soak measurements for a 36 earlier in the thread.