Phyziks

^ yeah, and sonicvoodoo's point is not anyone can get that size regardless of how much they juice and train, and I agree. For me a realistic goal is being 9-10% BF at a decent weight. Basically having a nice amount of muscle mass and low enough body fat to have visible abs. Packing on 100+ pounds of lean muscle however, is not a realistic goal for most people.

I'll take it. PM me your paypal info or whatever.

That's actually exactly what I was talking about. My argument wasn't focused on competitive bodybuilding (where genetics are obviously the most important factor) because from my understanding that isn't what anyone here is trying to achieve. Like I said, if the argument was on bodybuilding.com then I would agree with you entirely.

My only problem is I don't want people who are looking to change their body and lifestyle to think that it's impossible because they are not genetically predisposed to it. They may not be able to become professional bodybuilders, but I highly doubt they would even want to if they had the option.

This is simply a misunderstanding, and looking at it I think we're both on the same page. This is a fashion forum. Being so, people in this thread are either trying to lose weight, even if they aren't large, or trying to put some muscle on their frame without becoming too large. This is a very realistic goal for most people and genetics would only dictate how efficiently it can be done for them. It might take one person longer, but it's still possible because the goal is reasonable. If anyone else has a different goal, I highly doubt they would be coming to this forum/thread for workout advice because there are a variety of other sites with a vaster pool of knowledge on this subject. The few people like Knucks and Kunk who are more serious about weight lifting are simply here to share stories and experiences on the subject.

Do I win the tourney by default?

I know genetics play a huge role if you're trying to become the best of the best, but for most of us here that isn't the goal. Having a 6-pack is not something that can only be achieved by the genetically gifted; being 250+ pounds @ 5% body fat is (usually a mix of genetics + hard training in the gym + diet + drugs).

If this was a body building forum I would understand letting people know that unless they are genetically blessed, they will never achieve the same results as the pros, but for most people in this thread that is not their goal. Your point is still valid and I respect it, but if you're trying to tell me someone with sub-par genetics can't do something like get to 10-12% bodyfat @ a half-decent weight, I'm going to have to disagree.

Genetics do allow people to train/practice half as hard as others and obtain equal to, or greater results, and to also break boundaries once they reach a higher level of "competition", but it does not mean it's not possible for someone to pick up a guitar and practice his ass off and become great at it.

The biggest % we failed to look at is dedication. Genetics can also only get you so far, but if you don't put in the time and effort, you will obviously fail.

Yeah, I was lucky enough to be born as an ecto-mesomorph. I had a pretty solid frame to start with and burning fat comes fairly easy to me, or so it seems.

In any case, I don't think anyone here is trying to become a body builder. Just having a decent amount of muscle and being healthy and fit is probably more important, and that's generally what I'm aiming towards. Regardless of genetics, it's all about building muscle and losing fat. Some people have an easy time building muscle without putting on fat, some people have a hard time building muscle period. Some people have a hard time losing fat without losing muscle, and some people have a hard time losing fat at all. Genetics basically dictates how efficiently one can build muscle and lose fat, but if someone is dedicated and strict enough they can achieve the same results over a longer period of time.

True enough with the genetics, but anyone can still build the muscle and then cut the fat for their abs to show. It might require a lot more discipline and time, but besides having a chronic condition of some sort, almost anyone can achieve visible abs.

I cooked and ate 2 chicken breasts last night about 10 minutes into Good Friday...I didn't really know it was after 12, but then again I have never really been a religious person. I know giving up meat for the day is the least I can do, but not following a religion all year round and then following one aspect of it just for this day seems kind of like rooting for a team just because they made it to the playoffs or some shit...

/sacrilege

Yeah. Most people already have well defined abs, but the stomach fat/bloating covers them. Men tend to store more fat on their lower back and lower stomach so it's typically harder to see those abs unless you're at a relatively low BF or have very well built ab muscles. This leads a lot of people to believe that their problem is weaker lower abs, and that's exactly why you see a lot of infomercials selling products that "target the lower abs". Spot reducing is impossible, and the only way to get all of your abs showing is lower BF%. Dieting in this case would solve that, but if you have never trained your abs properly with resistance they may still look kind of bad. So I'd say 90% of abs are made in the kitchen, 10% in the gym. As far as the left and right side go, I have no idea. Mine seem to look pretty symmetrical in size...?

Wow, I'm actually surprised by the results of my low-carb cut so far. I guess my body is really sensitive to carbs because I used to always be bloated. After cutting the carbs for a few days it show how little I actually have to lose. My bulking phase was a huge success because I put on about 12 pounds and I'm still pretty lean. After dieting for 3 weeks I'm positive I'll be at a fairly low BF %. At that time I'm going to maintain for awhile, then bulk back up.

Sometimes the mirror can be really misleading. When I would first wake up in the morning my lower stomach is flat, but at the end of the night after eating/drinking etc., it would protrude somewhat. Right now I have a clearly visible 4-pack with my bottom 2 abs almost in sight and I have only dieted for like 3 days. So if anyone has been going to the gym regularly and is wondering why their lower stomach still isn't looking great, chances are your body is sensitive to carbs like mine is. I'm not to sure how I'm going to deal with that problem after my cut is done, but I'll do some research.

Oh, I will also post pics in a couple weeks.

i usually do 12 sets of ab exercises 2 days a week. i [try to] do 15 reps per set. am i over-working?

I do roughly the same amount. I throw in ab exercises on my shoulder days and leg days. If your abs are still hurting, then post-pone hitting them again. If they don't hurt, hit them up.

Awesome man, thanks for the advice. I took 16mg of ephedrine and 200mg of caffeine and I think that's perfect for me right now. I know I will probably have to up the dose of ephedrine once my body starts building a tolerance, but I only plan on being on the stack for like 3 weeks tops for fat burning.

My review after the first day is pretty fucking good. I've taken a few pre/intra workout supplements for increasing energy, and this stack just blew everything else out of the water. I obviously don't know how it does in terms of fat burning yet considering this is still my first day.

I started off a bit jittery but because I waited 45 minutes or so before I went to the gym, it cooled off and my workout was really intense and my focus was really great.

My general advice would be to start off with small doses, see how your body reacts, and then take more or less based off of that.

Well I recently took 2x8mg of Ephedrine (don't know why the pills only have 8mg each...) and 1x200mg of caffeine. I must be somewhat sensitive because I can definitely feel an increase in my heart rate, and my face is pretty warm so the thermogenic effect is clearly working. I'm heading to the gym in like 5 minutes, so I'll see if it effects my focus.

Oh, I'm testing a ECA stack now. I really don't have much to lose, but I really want to see how my body reacts to a low carb diet and an ECA stack for when I really have to seriously cut.

Sonicdoodoo, you can't hate on us for giving the "old man" a hard time. When you were our age I'm sure you did it to. Wether or not you squat that much doesn't really matter, but it's really good you're still keeping active at your age and I hope I still have a passion for health and fitness when I get to that point.

I did have pics, but sasquatch stole my fucking camera.

If I buy can you throw in a Visvim 20L?

^ Naw he's telling the truth, I saw him. I also saw a leprechaun squatting a unicorn while being spotted by Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Starting a low-carb diet for the next 3 or 4 weeks, with one cheat meal/carb up a week. Going to see how my body reacts to it, hopefully well. Trying to cut off the last bit of body fat to judge how my bulk did in terms of building muscle, and to see my abs finally come back, haha. Wish me luck, I'm gonna be a grumpy SOB for the next while.

Currently taking a week off from lifting and a strict diet. I plan on having a pretty strict diet for the next 3-4 weeks on my cut for summer. I've hit up an all-you-can-eat sushi joint, all-you-can-eat wings, and plan on binge drinking tomorrow night. Might as well go all out, because the next month is going to get real serious.

Ultimate Diet 2.0 is currently blowing my mind. It's really rekindling my love for fitness and nutrition. I've only read about 1/3, but thus far explaining how and why the body works is extremely informative. I always knew about the bodies defense mechanisms against starvation coming from the caveman days, but this is much more in-depth and insightful. Thanks for the link man.

Lol, only 2 matches in like a month. By the time the finals come around, Street Fighter 5 is gonna be out.

Won my matches against Zubin.

where u at?

i hit you up the other day on SF4 and you didn't respond

Yeah man, sorry about that. I brought my PS3 to my friends apartment on Saturday and got really drunk and started walking around outside. I didn't get the message until like Sunday night or something. I'm available tonight and all day tomorrow. Let me know, lol.

I personally prefer to run off my excess calories. I enjoy eating, and I also enjoy running so it's the best option for me.

I like raping some oily ass pad thai for my cheat meals.