mlyngard

On 9/18/2020 at 3:08 PM, BrownMetallic said:

 

This will be its swansong here ... 

 

this is such an epic post! I’m so glad I saw this. I’ve been AWOL for a while. I remember when you got these. That was back during my first Momo trial-and-error days.
 

Yeah, and fast forward ten years and two size-ups later (okay, three, for that “size to last” idea). But I still have yet to give any of my Momos THIS kind of commitment. So glad to see the amazing evo on these, even if it makes me feel old 

On 11/7/2019 at 12:49 AM, japanalogue said:

For you Momotaro and Japan Blue fans, I've just put up my two-part interview of Hisao and Katsu Manabe if you're interested. Enjoy!

Part One

Part Two

This is some great writing and interviewing! As an early devoted Momo and Japan Blue fan, I came to appreciate their quiet devotion to modern, understated, well-made jeans free from any of the eye-catching experimentation of, say, Samurai (though def respect ✊).

My primary denim complaint over the years has been the very slow awakening of many of the 501-devoted old-school Osaka Five to the Western market demands for modern cuts like the 0306 tapered fit. I think many of us older denimheads have closets full of fits that we did our best to love on, but just couldn’t pull off. I know my own trial and error process with Momotaro (and every other Japanese brand out there) caused me to sell dozens of pairs (excluding those I sold because I got fatter)...

When Japan Blue was launched in ‘10, I watched Momotaro be one of the first Japanese brands to try innovating the Japanese denim market with new western cuts. Almost everyone followed suit in the next few years, even true old-school devotees like Pure Blue Japan and SD’A. Since slim taper cuts are the best for me this has been a goldmine of returning to previously avoided brands just because fits previously didn’t work for me.

I like that your interviews really reveal this hard work that Momotaro invested in western market research. Thanks for contributing that!

20 hours ago, brainmonster said:

Found these thrifting in Tokyo for only $50! Not sure what model. Stretching out the waistband.

Seems like Japanese don’t even like their own stuff. Crappy old Levi’s and Lee’s going for $100+, used Barbour coats for like $400. All foreign stuff way overpriced and Japanese brands pretty cheap. 

My Japanese friend doesn’t like Hinoya. He says they’re all “fakes”. Lol. I think he bought a pair of Alden’s for like $800. 

A pic of the patch and inner tag would prob help the identification. T

Not sure if anyone else is excited about this, but Blue Owl Workshop has THREE new Momotaro offerings, once of which is their collab BOM012 using the Grand Indigo greencast dye. I've seen it and it's as sexy as it looks. The others are a 16oz slubby and a 12oz summer denim.

After years of enjoying the 15.7oz and Copper Label denims, I'm excited to get my hands on these. If only my bank account would join in my enthusiasm...

On 2/2/2018 at 6:08 PM, MJF9 said:

 

I love that so many of us denimheads use the IKEA kitchen rail systems to hang oour jeans. I still use the S-hooks to hang mine (from nails). The bigger size S-hook can hold 2-3 pairs in a pinch. But it make so much sense to have them all lined up and ready to pick from, plus, hanging them is the only way, imo.  Nice work on those all, btw.

I love this forum for the insight and wisdom. Agreed, TFH have been next on my list for a long time, and like a good pair of shoes or a jacket, the price is really not an issue when I can expect many years of subtle wabisabi shazam. I have no idea what's involved with the cloth weaving, but TFH reminded me again why it's so good. Only a day into wearing them and the slub and density hidden in the denim are showing why it's worth the extra. I sized normal/up on these, which was the err on the side of caution rather than vanity decision I've come to accept. I feel your pain, erockisalive, My sizing miscalcs have cost me bundles.

It's funny, but I remember now why I loved my old pair of BSP I had, and only my relationship with Momotaro and ONI has rivalled Flat Head with elegant simplicity where the denim has the one and only final word. The additional details only make them better.

Beautiful Freak - ONI is still using generic hardware, Rivets are Universal, and donut buttons are laurel and star. Sewing is relentlessly good and tight.

On 1/26/2018 at 7:00 AM, Geeman said:

Looking at the measurements for the D306 it looks like TFH have changed how they tag/measure? Usually TFH tag size is the size they are presoak? A 32 will measure 32 then shrink to about 30 if I'm correct? The New models seem to be tagged at the size they will shrink to?

D306 looks spot on measurements for me but am resisting the urge!

Confirm that the D306 shrink TO tagged measurement. This was the same for my old BSP as well.

The jeans arrived and a big thank you to Danny at Rivet and Hide for his fantastic customer service and denim wisdom. I know my shiz but it's always nice to have someone on the delivering end to confirm and advise.

Just did some empirical measurements on the D306, since I was seeing varying chart measurements. They are a continuous taper. Tag 33w measured just above hemline flat after one hot soak were 7-1/8 at 36" inseam. They measure just under 7-1/2 at 30" inseam (flat, above hemline). It's not a carrot-taper since the knee is around 8-3/8", but it's a 1950's rockabilly cut with good trim below the knee and a 10" rise after wash.

They held up perfectly under a warm machine wash, with minimal ironing to get rid of the fold-creases. Buttoned up easily including first button. Patch was smooth and only slightly puckered. Hemline gained some nice roping right away. Machine wash took away the last of the inseam shrink (definitely expect at least 2.5" leg/inseam shrink). Waist is already back to 34". Pockets are small and tight - I forgot this about FH. But I LOVE that they double-stitch the pocket openings, which relieves my usual issues of mending down the line...I hope.

All in all, I am already bonded with them. Fit is impressive, Similar to Momotaro's Tight Taper and Oni's Relax Taper, Roomy in the hips, slim at knee and leg. Though I will still never understand why TFH comes to market at $340 - at least $50-100 USD more than other brands, especially when ONI delivers at $230 USD for the same attention to detail. No matter in the long run. The service from Rivet & Hide was exceptional. 

On 1/26/2018 at 9:01 AM, Geeman said:

Looking at R&Hs measurements the new models are definitely tagged differently 

Geeman, while I'm tempted to agree with you, I also remember clearly that Flat Head has TWO shrink phases. Initial soak and then a second shrink were standard protocol for FH back in the day and that probably hasn't changed with the Pioneer denim. Tagged waist always shrank to  the measured tag, and then you got used to the stretched out fit and it shrank tight again. Only Studio D'Artisan and sometimes Samurai shrink below measured waist size. Trust in the denim men. Don't downsize and prepare for more shrink sometimes. That part only comes expensively from experience.

15 hours ago, Geeman said:

I'd be interested in the answer from R&H,  

This may help from small questions thread 

https://supertalk.superfuture.com/topic/18562-superdenim-small-questions-thread-use-instead-of-making-new-threads/?do=findComment&comment=3267784

 

Hahah. I was in on that convo too. Thanks though!

Sorry for the no0b question, it's been a long time since I owned the FH 05BSP.  

Does anyone here have the new TFH D306 slim tapered cut? I own a bunch of continuous taper cuts from Momotaro and Oni which taper all the way down the inseam. But does FH continue their taper the full-length of the 38" inseam, or does it straighten out to a set leg-opening after, say 30-32"? 

I've asked Rivet and Hide to provide a hard in-store measurement at where I'll be hemming, but could use some input here.

Oh man, I wish I had known about your mission sooner. A very worthy cause. Will send those Samurai you liked to you next week.

On 1/18/2018 at 5:23 PM, swiss-jeansfreak said:

Wow impressing denim collection lists around. Some of you guys really have a little raw denim museum at home!!!!

Are you looking for donations? ; )

I've tried every Japanese brand around between 2006-2015. Often twice. Also, KMW, Jeans Shop, APC, LVC, Left Field, Roy, Tellason Uniqlo, and JCrew and Gap. Current rotation: Oni (3), Momotaro (3) Tanuki (4), Studio D'Artisan (1). About to pull trigger on more Flat Head.

If I totaled everything I've spent on Denim, I would be worried about myself.

On 12/22/2017 at 4:05 AM, tobypc said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got these SD-102's off eBay, guy said he bought them around 20 years ago and not had much wear yet.

 

Interesting how low the arcuates were located on the back pocket 20 years ago.

On 12/17/2017 at 3:26 AM, Spiraltoy said:

As a quite short person (170cm/5’7), I’ve often wondered about the fact that most Japanese denim only come in one length. This works ok if it’s a true straight cut but what about tapered cuts like the ‘66 or more modern cuts. The fit would be drastically different on a person of my height compared to one who doesn’t need to hem at all. I need the jeans hemmed at about 29 inches (after shrinkage) compared to the “36 that most jeans come in. Thoughts?

Spiraltoy, I'm not sure if this question was answered to-point, but being a less than 30" inseam wearer myself (I like 'em unstacked, high and cuffed), and preferential to tapered cuts, I've found that tapered cuts these days will increase in leg opening as they are hemmed. This is the case for me with Oni's relax taper, Tanuki, Momtaro tight taper and SDA's Denimio contest 002's. The continuous taper from knee-down usually isn't as drastic as it may seem, so you might have a variance of only .25"-.3" across when hemmed from 33" inseam to 29". So "drastic" isn't a word I'd use. Keep in mind too that after shrinkage, a 36" inseam may only end up being 33-34".

On 1/9/2018 at 3:24 PM, lance said:

Is Gordon still associated with Blue in Green?

Lance, yes he is, and replied to a few of my emails over the last six months. Though the delays in his responses give me the sense that he's less directly at the helm (or in the store) than he used to be, possibly due to the store's expansion. Dunno, but when he hasn't replied himself directly, I've received replies from his always-friendly staff.

On 1/8/2018 at 11:12 AM, ranonranonarat said:

shit man it’s been a while. anyone here who remembers me still know what happened to everyone else? 

Ranon, good too see you, bud. I took a few-years vacation as well. 

22 hours ago, wolfofthesea said:

Hey  guys, just purchased my first pair of Japanese raw denim, super excited. Bought the Momotaro GTB 0205SP from the blue button shop sale, so at a good price as well. Really impressed by the quality( As I should be for my first Japanese pair). Denim is fairly uniform, but feels like a tight weave. I'm sure more slub and hair will appear after the first wash! However they came with a booklet that was written all in Japanese, and I was wondering if anyone knew the translation? Here are some photos of the new pair.

 

 

 

 

Congrats! Fit looks amazing. That tag basically says the same rhetoric that's written HERE

If you leave the jeans unwashed with just a soak, they'll remain fairly smooth/sandpapery and hairy. After the first real wash, when the denim is soft, you'll start to feel the vertical slubbing in the weave. It's subtle but it's part of what I love about the denim. Only Studia D'Artisan does a denim with so many subtleties. Enjoy!

ps - on my first GTB stripes pair, I used a sharpie and colored in the white stripes. The black ink wore off unevenly to expose the white paint and made for a very cool result. No pics sadly. Ex-gf made off with them.

On 12/30/2017 at 8:06 PM, babydials said:

Sadly blue owl does not have a NYC outpost.  Guess I can try the tight taper at BiG.  I just don't like to make them spin their wheels so I can buy something else from someone else.  Thanks.

Babydials, my apologies, I wrote all that garbage and missed your main question  - If you want to try on a pair, I you can always purchase the pair you're interested in and return them if the fit isn't to your liking. BiG and Blue Owl both accept returns for unused new-condition merch.

Pro-tip - don't size down on Momos. Expect to have a true to size fit at the waist after the first soak. Another pro-tip - Momos, maybe more than any other denim, will fit awkwardly at first wear or two, especially around the hips and seat. So don't let first impressions spoil what becomes a great fit after a week of wear.

8 hours ago, babydials said:

BinG stocks Japan Blue (did not see them on their site)?  Are the Japan Blue division cuts identical to the Momotoro parent cuts, I tried Momotoro's in the past without the fit working on me.  But I figure Unbranded and N&F do not use identical cuts, so there may be a chance for Japan Blue to work.  Specifically looking for Japan Blue.

Momotaro is the original brand and now a subdivision of the parent company Japan Blue Group out of Kojima. Japan Blue brand was launched as a more price-accessible line around 2012. Momotaro is the flagship line, and Japan Blue is the more consumer brand. Both use excellent denim, but Japan Blue experiments more with denim wights and weaves. Momotaro stays true to it's time-tested 15.7oz Vintage and 14.7oz Copper label denim. Momotaro also offers it's "going to battle" stripes on the 15.7 oz as an option, as well as other back pocket silkscreen customs like Evisu does (these can be found at Denimio and other Asian websites only). Momotaro has pink inseam stitch, Japan Blue is blue. Japan Blue loses the back pocket rivets and pricier details to keep price down under $200; the price-point target for the brand. Momotaro usually stays under $300. Momotaro is more trend-resistant (which I love), and Japan Blue a little more trend-driven. Both had different philosophical approaches to jeans-making.

Momotaro offers a range of fits in the US in order of tightness/rise: Tight Tapered, Tight Straight, Slim Straight, High Tapered, Natural Tapered, etc. Japan Blue offers Slim Tapered, High Tapered, Slim Straight and others.

It's confusing, since there isn't an exact overlap between fit names, but the similarities are close. It's even more confusing when retailers mis-name the cuts. Tight Tapered (Momotaro) and Slim Tapered (Japan Blue) are very close, but the taper is more apparent on the Momotaro. So check measurement charts closely.

Also note that Momotaro uses a partially sanforized denim which will see more shrinkage than Japan Blue's fully sanforized denims, but both brands have been offering limited edition fully-loomstate unsanforized denim occasionally.

I would give Japan Blue a B+ grade for overall quality, and you definitely get what you pay for with Momotaro. I've owned many of both and remain totally loyal to Momotaro.

Jay at Blue Owl Workshop has been carrying Japan Blue since the beginning, and knows both brands extremely well. Gordon at BiG has been with Momotaro (only) since it's launch around 2007-08. For Japan Blue, I would suggest shopping from Blue Owl's selection since Jay has a good eye and only brings in cuts that sell in the US. Standard and Strange, Blue Owl and BiG all know Momotaro well. 

3 hours ago, babydials said:

Anyone know where I can find these in NYC?  I need to try on before buying but can't find a store here that sells them.  Neither the Selfedge or Blue in Green sites are showing them.

Momotaro? Any specific model?

Blue in Green Soho stocks them, and just got a shipment of the copper label tight-tapered 0306-C, but I don't think you'll be able to find any of the copper label in other cuts there. However the tight-straight and tight tapered are the same cut from the knee up.

I like this thread.

Nixon/Momo

16 minutes ago, Bobbo said:

Do you consider Italy as the cold part of the world? 

You can ski in the Italian alps. Milan has weather like NYC.

On 11/29/2017 at 7:08 PM, oomslokop said:

big wins for how thin their hems are, and how small the visible seam allowance (?)/bit between the chainstitch and the weft. love it. blue owl's hems are so thick they almost defeat the purpose of getting them chainstitched.

Good eye. In my experience, Blue Owl's hems have always been wide, yet still well proportioned. And Blue in Green's have always been the narrowest (and props to Godspeed for tight work too). In the photo, BiG's hem was on a pair of Oni 20oz, and Godspeed's was on a pair of 16.5oz Tanuki, so denim weight isn't the deciding factor on hem width.

So that said, I'm not sure if Blue Owl and S&S uses a wider hem to promote better roping on the hem, or if it's due to equipment and /or skill level. My guess is for better roping.