grooveholmes

To clear things up I probably would've sized one up from actual waist measurement but only because my pair seems to be an inch smaller than listed on the charts (started off as 31 when I ordered a 32)...No big deal though, the legs and everywhere else fit just fine so it's really a matter of preference. Up one is definitely not a problem though for any who were considering it!

Agreed. How the top block fits on an individual is always the x-factor.

The cut and denim is just amazing.... but construction is not perfected yet in my opinion....

You're totally right about that, dude. They make some good shit, but the construction. Let me tell you a story...

I bought a pair of black Simon Miller Harlems. The edges of the flap (with the button holes) started unraveling uncomfortably fast. You can see in pictures at the very top of the flap, the kind of weird fraying that was going on. This was symptomatic of the edges where I would button the jeans, but the constant agitation from buttoning/unbuttoning made it wear out more quickly.

I sent these to DenimTherapy, which, as you can see, completely shitted it up. Not even that, it didn't even fix the problem. Right above the "patch" they tried to apply, the edges are fraying again. But the problem all along lay in the construction.

I don't know what to say except I've never had this particular kind of fraying occur before on any of my jeans (PRPS, Rag & Bone, Nudie, Raleigh Denim, Marc Jacobs, KMW, Gilded Age, and yes, even Gap).

So I sent an email. I got dissed for 2 months. Then I sent another email. I got a response. Excited, I finally explained (with photos) what was going on. Most smaller clothing companies are really cool about offering repairs or sending replacements or even swatches of fabric. I initially thought the same of SM. I was wrong. The exchange went like this:

>>On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Matty wrote:

the repair doesn't look very good. i suggest contacting denim doctors here in LA. the could fix your jeans for sure. i would offer you a new pair but unfortunately we haven't produced a harlem in a long time.

>>On Jan 24, 2010, at 2:59 PM, you wrote:

Agreed: the repair job rots.

That's very generous of you to offer a new pair. Would you be able to substitute something comparable in exchange for these?

>>On Jan 24, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Matty wrote:

We don't make black denim right now and now that I think about it your jeans will be cooler once they have been repaired properly. Good luck.

Great jeans (for the most part), crap service. Here ends the lesson.

but if you want to order a batch with your own choice of selvage colour line the minimum is 350m...which is steeeep to bring in. May look at importing some of the purple/white stock in the future, it is amazing denim.

Damn. Damndamn.

Fit pics after a 45-minute cold soak. I nutted up and wore them as they dried. That was unpleasant. But I was concerned out of the box that they were already a little bit snug. However, Roy's advice was spot on. They were 34x32 and I would have to guess that they are around a 33.5x30 right now. I don't have a measuring tape (it was gaffled by my housemate), sorry. All's I can say is follow his advice and expect about 1-inch initial shrink in the waist and 2-2.5 in the inseam. They're stretching out nicely the more I wear them around. Roy's a great guy and I can't say enough about how cool it is to run into craftsmen/women who are passionate about what they create. The inner stitching details are sick. It also helps that they tend to have senses of humor.

For the record, no one knows exactly where/how the term "Tar Heel" originated. UNC sucks, anyway.

erk thanks for that post-- that is some great info and your pics are fantastic, dude. I went by earlier this week to have a little more hemming done and I couldn't resist the Warren cotton canvas pants. They occasionally have stock that they will mark down "just because". They're the only ones who sell their denim in the area, and I think it's great that people can swing by and see firsthand how their jeans were made before they buy them. I'll post pics this weekend.

I also couldn't resist asking him about your post and Victor told me about the "uber-denim-nerd" jeans he wanted to throw out for the sufu crowd. The unsanforized deadstock is amazing and these jeans will be incredible, no doubt. Sarah was totally chill as well and she told me of a few other projects and possible collaboration proposals (some interesting and others... laughable) that have come their way.

That fabric for the silver anniversary denim for the CoOp is SICK. It has a silver cast and will be absolutely beautiful in its final form. They've got so many great ideas and projects in the works it's friggin' hard to keep up. I told him I have to save up for the anniversary jeans and then he rolled out the denim they developed especially with Cone (with a yellowish cast) and I was sweating those, too. It reminded me of the PRPS Rambler (Zimbabwe) fabric-- perhaps not as soft, but they will break in ridiculously well.

erk, let me know when you're swinging by RD again-- I'm planning to swing by in about 2 weeks, after Victor gets back into town.

The double-knees, slooping back pockets, and the stitch details on those Stevensons are TIGHT. Great purchase.

Freeman's Sporting Club Ducks. Was told it was from Cone, and the Roy Denim duck pics look identical to my eye. White balance, what white balance?!

These look great.

There was an episode of "Dirty Jobs" that showed a similar process, except the skins were turned into parchment and drumheads. It's so refreshing to see small companies like Tender work with local craftspeople toward making a quality product. Thanks for the posts, Bill!

Yeah the denim looks nice, I like the patch too. Wish the stitching and back pockets were a little more standard though.

Yea, it might be one of those weird things that grows on you. I wasn't sure about them when I first saw them, but I really dig them now. I actually think they look better with the contrast stitch (as on other models), but hey, I love the one I'm with.

I was able to visit last week and there is something cool comin around the corner for sufu. I'll have more details next week, I'm not sure how much victor wants me to talk about yet.

what a tease.

Pics of the "Elliot" jeans. 3 months, no soaks or washes. The black seed cotton feels fantastic and I love the plain copper buttons and subtle details.

I'm a 33.5 waist and a 29/30 inseam and I went with a 34/32. Cold soaked them for an hour and they fit perfect with enough room to roll if I want. These are a fantastic pair of jeans for an even more remarkable price. Definitely my favorite pair next to my Ramblers.

True, the decisions made by the company executives and/or financiers is largely based on information provided by the accountants (both management and financial).

Exactly. I think we're all on the same page here. The accountants and lawyers interpret data for the executives/financiers. It's a necessary handcuff. Speaking of, they're also surfing for porn on the clock. E.g.

accountants and lawyers rule the world. and more recently, the porn industry.

sorry, schild-- been busy with other things. I know about 2 weeks ago they were in the middle of preparing to go to NYC to present their next line or something along those lines. i haven't been by, though i'll probably swing by there in the next few weeks. i was going to buy another pair, but i caved in and bought a pair of rogue territory workpants recently.

i'd shoot them an email-- it may take a few days, but they'll surely answer your questions.

this thread has devolved. dumb.

I hardly think any of the participants or donors are chomping at the bit or licking their chops or [insert other anecdote here] at the opportunity to move mass amounts of their product through the DD site. If anything, it's more collaborative than competitive. It's exposure, sure, and that can be a form of marketing, but I'm not convinced that it's completely driven by marketing or the "need to sell" as you imply. A lot of these manufacturers of smaller batches of denim aren't making huge profits; many of them are in it more for the love of the craft itself. It's a niche market. Yes, they have to make money to keep their businesses afloat, but don't accuse them of being disingenuous and judge that any form of marketing is somehow the opposite of altruism. You're missing the point of the DD site. There's something for (most) everybody. I'm a consumer; I like to buy things; I have money to buy things; the site and others like it (like this forum) will help me decide what jeans I want to buy next. If I decide to buy a pair of Japanese or Cone Mill jeans or whatever based on the site, no big deal. If I only like to look at pictures and fades, no big. I don't feel any pressure to buy, nor do I think any of the contributors want people to feel the pressure to buy anything. If it was a pay site, then I'd be more skeptical and feel they are trying to manipulate others. From what I gather, there is a certain amount of artisnal pride that goes into making a garment of quality, and I think some of these other, more obscure (or newer) brands are excited about their product and would love the opportunity to reach a wider (though small, niche) audience. Most of the denim nerds out there will be smart enough to know what they do or do not want to buy. The newer folks will be initially turned off by the price tags but may like what they see in a lower-priced pair or may do some more research through other sites. Again, there is something for everybody-- quit acting like this shit is some kind of secret cult.

I think it's an interesting idea and I'm hoping it will continue to evolve as the weeks/months progress. I've also enjoyed some of the blog write-ups by some of the participants. It seems that the updating will occur fairly infrequently given that some of the folks are pretty busy with their own projects/businesses, but I guess if you have enough participants, the postings will overlap. The Debate does seem similar to the Edwin/Tinker Tailor project right now, but I do like the variety of brands. It's bookmarked in my browser and I'll check in every once in awhile to see how things are progressing. I dislike Flickr too-- I hope they move to hosting the photos on-site.

i have a pair of the gotham size 33 - they measure at 36. if you can't try them on, i'd order 2 sizes down.

they had a sale and i bought them at $75. had to get a tailor to get the fit right, but they are very well made jeans, with really great details (hardware and construction) but somewhat overpriced.

Posted this on SF but I figure a small company like RD deserves some good word-of-mouth PR. I finally copped a pair from Barneys. The denim feels like butter. I e-mailed Victor (via their website) and he was very enthusiastic and invited me down to the shop. I had to work until 5pm pretty much this entire week, and fortunately he was willing and able to accommodate (very cool of him). Anyway, it was very refreshing to meet someone who is very passionate about what they do, and is committed to making a quality garment. He showed me the different rolls of denim and told me about a special fabric they're working on exclusively with Cone Mill. Out of necessity (because newer machines are $$$), but also his own admitted nerdiness, they make everything by hand and old machines. It was interesting to see how some of the older machines weave tighter button holes or create more interesting patterns. I know some people hate the back pockets, but he showed me how the stitching is evidence to the fact that they're handcrafted and sowed on by an individual behind the machine. (Still, you either like or hate the look, which is cool.) Apparently, they've "grown" from just 2 people to about a 10-person outfit. He also showed me a old, old Union Special that was in almost pristine condition, which was very cool. I can definitely vouch for the quality, though I'm sure the opinions about the aesthetics will continue. After the tour, Victor finally got around to hemming the jeans which took all of 2 minutes. He used a red thread for the hem which I think is a nice detail. He even offered to fix up my Simon Miller jeans (the button flap is effed up- manufacturer defect) if I brought them in. All in all, it was a great visit, and Victor was very generous in giving his time and energy-- just a cool guy who feels very lucky and thankful to be doing what he loves. Sarah was there too, and she was just as nice. It was definitely educational for me, as I'd never witnessed the jeans-making process before. I'm sure if any of you are in the area and have some time, they'd love to have you swing by. Drop them an email sometime.

I know you posted this awhile ago... still interested? I've got a pair of PRPS Raw Slim Quartz I purchased at Barneys.

Have you sold this yet? I'm interested if you still have it. New to the forum, sorry if I'm too late!

$50shipped within the United States is the lowest I will go

Im going to the post office tomorrow,. sooo.....