Paul T

Haven't seen the listing but Roy did try some Nihon Menpu denim in the early days. Lots of different people use Nihon Menpu denim, including Edwin, SDA and Denime, as well as Mr Freedom and Sugar Cane.

@Dry, nice jeans. I don't now which factory 16 was - when I was doing some work with Levi's I asked about the button codes and the archives people don't necessarily know either.

What I do know is that the single digit button codes actually changed over the years, so one factory will have had several different codes.

Of the three digit codes, 555 is Valencia St 554 is Texas and 643 is Tenn.

43 minutes ago, i_denim said:

How many pairs can one work on at one time, if trying to get good fades?

1

6 hours ago, LQW said:

So the 555 code on LVCs denoting they came from the Valencia St. factory... is that a LVC only thing? Meaning were I to find a pair of vintage looking Levi's with the 555 on the button I would be sure that they are not real vintage?

I am pretty sure original items were stamped with 555 in the 70s or 80s - but don't think there were many 501s, as Valencia Street was a smaller factory, and the 501 was a high-demand item. I don't recall seeing original 501 with a 555 stamp; so I think if you saw 501 with the stamp they're unlikely to be vintage. That said, the should look immediately different anyway. The buttons in particular and the stitching do look different on real vintage.

10 minutes ago, i_denim said:

Please help with sizing between Raw and One wash. Buy true to size raw or buy true to size in one wash. Don't plan to wash.

I need waist 96 cm. Should I buy a pair of Raw in 96cm as I don't plan to wash it for 6 months and it will get better fades than one wash? Else, I can buy one wash in 96cm as it won't shrink further. I want to try Raw/Unsanforized but it isn't available in a bigger size than that.

https://www.okayamadenim.com/products/pure-blue-japan-pbe-019-relaxed-tapered

It's not really a great idea to wear from raw. It won't really get you better fades and it's impractical.

Have you tried raw denim before, @i_denim It's good you're researching it carefully, but don't make the mistake that there's an 'ultimate' pair of jeans and an ultimate way of washing/caring. That's really marketing speak. Going for the most expensive, funkiest jeans from an online store as one of your first pair is almost certainly a mistake. Better to go to a store near you and make sure they're sized correctly.

On 2/20/2018 at 2:56 PM, Broark said:

Nice comparison shots.
After going through all 165 pages of this thread recently (I have no life) Photobucket really fucked things up. 

yes, they are bastards. They tried extortion and that didn't work so they threw away everyone's contributions.

I've worked out a way I don't have to sell my Roys by the way. Which I'm happy about for obvious reasons.

Erk, like you I am sure, I have a box of 20 beautiful jeans, I have to be philosophical about the ones that got away. And my own imcompetence.

Sopranos gifs always appreciated though

3 hours ago, i_denim said:

What I was really trying to say was maybe the real thing is still alive? 

I may pickup a pair of LVC just so I can compare to other denim I have.

Getting the basic STF  501 used to be a great option, $30 from Canal Jeans.

My last pair of STF were great. Faded really well. I gave them away to a charity shop. Or thought I did. After I'd been to Levi's and saw how much 50s examples fetched, I went to my denim stash to look for my lovely pair, which were still lovely and dark but had a split in the knee. THey were missing. The STF were still there.

I guess someone got a good charity shop find!
 

They have had Cone raw 501 in the standard range on and off under various names. You'll find plenty of examples in this thread.

they do look great @Max Power. I've always loved my 1108, but if I could change one thing it would be to have a lower-contrast fade. I think you've found the solution, which is to wash them more often. Once the sun comes out I think I'll stick mine in the washer.

18 minutes ago, i_denim said:

Let me ask this now before I acquire further denim wisdom.

If Levi's 501 from the past is THE pair of jeans that everybody wants and everybody is reproducing, then what exactly is wrong with the Levi's 501 currently being produced by Levi's?

Newbie here, don't kill me for asking this.

It's a modern cut for one thing. The 501 has always varied in shape over the years.

Secondly, the mass-market model is made more cheaply, sewn overseas with indifferent fabric. That's what happens with a race to the bottom. NAFTA maybe had a lot to do with it, then there was the influence of Gap, a key all-American clothing brand.... with no US factories. levi's shuttered a lot of their plants to compete with them.

I wore my Edwin Lee 101B for our trip to Copenhagen last weekend. Great jeans that feel even higher-rise than the 20s, which I can combine with my TCB Navy Jumper. Really enjoyed the change.

We spotted this on the way to lunch... plus a skinny looking dude, something of a contrast to the portly character I kept seeing in the over-large mirrors of the house we were staying in.



 

6 hours ago, i_denim said:

Thanks. So the order of best possible jeans would be Vintage>LVC>TCB>Japanese Repros? At least, for the people who prefer vintage denim.

I guess, the actual Levi's Vintage jeans would be very very hard to find and very expensive. Logically, LVC would be in a position to create the best/most authentic repros. But I guess Japanese brands have raced ahead as LVC isn't able to deliver true vintage repros?

A lot depends on which era of Levi's you fancy wearing; different brands have different takes on different eras, some of which are better than others.

I came to repro jeans from originals; I used to easily find late 60s, and in some case 50s jeans, for not much money. But I actually prefer repros, because you can size them correctly and I like wearing them in from new. Nearly all decent repro jeans (LVC, Warehouse, TCB, Ooe) are capable of looking great, in some ways better than the originals.

AS mentioned before, Japanese jeans often have better buttons and thread, and some of them have better attention to detail for the stitching etc (although that's a generalisation - for instance, TCB, who I love, get a nicer, scrunchier stitching on the back yoke, but actually get the construction wrong). Levi's have tended to have more generic details (a nylon rather than rayon red tag) because they figure the heritage of the denim and made in USA, plus of course Levi's arcuates, is a vital factor. But way more important than that is how they actually fit! All of them have taken one or two original jeans, extrapolated from those details, and in most cases adjusted the fit. And - to me - it's the fit that's the crucial aspect, as long as the overall details are at a certain level. So it's worth looking at what kind (or era) of fit you fancy, before focusing on brands.

Not a dumb question at all.

One of the best Japanese Levi's repros is TCB - check out this page for a comparison of their 55 vs the Levi's one:

 Short answer: LVC fabric by Cone is truer to the original, plus the construction is more accurate. Often you find Japanese repros have better hardware and that's the case here - TCB has, for instance, much nicer thread, and the little red tag scrunches up much more like the original, and it has nicer puckering on the seams.

People often talk about the difference in the denim - and Japanese denim is mostly different from Cone, as most brands dial in far more imperfections (and many are designed to show wear more quickly). Not all do  - SDA for instance have fabric that's not over-slubby and wears more slowly, exactly like Cone. The Japanese, slubbier approach is a kind of idealised take on the fabric, which is valid in itself as it looks good. If you compare to the originals, the Levi's denim made by Cone is more accurate. But Cone's mill in Greensboro has just closed down, sadly. 

From memory, LVC's next run of repros will have Cone denim - then who knows what the next batch will look like? It's likely they'll use fabric by Kaihara, which is good, but some of the made-in-the-USA magic will undoubtedly be gone.

On 2/17/2018 at 11:19 AM, poonsc said:

hi all, considering to order my first LVC on site and looking for some size advice on 55 501 NEW RINSE version.
should i get the normal size as japanese jeans or needa size up on top for comfort fit? 
i normally wear a 33 in warehouse, 34 in tcb 50s and 20s, thank you!

my LVC were true to size, and I bought my actual waist size. The TCB are tagged with their post-shrink size, which allows for circa one inch of shrink. if tjey were raw Levi's and you fancied a slightly trimmer fit I would recommend 34 tag size. But unfortunately that doesn't help with the New Rinse pairs, as we don't really know how they're sized or cut.

I generally practise what Roy preaches.

I think with raw denim, from its start, one was generally instructed to soak the jeans not wash them - partly because washing was simply more trouble. I have done what Roy suggests perhaps 60% of the time, because it feels significantly different: much crisper, and that's a feel I really like for new jeans. It's also thought that, with more starch and resins present, the jeans don't absorb as much dirt. You are likely to get more broken threads in the honeycombs though.

I know Roy really likes the look of new denim (as do I) and isn't in a hurry for it to wear in. So his suggestion is pretty consistent with that. I personally haven't experienced any real drawbacks; wear lines definitely don't move, and the extra shrinkage tends to be minimal for a 30 or 40 degree wash. I washed my TCB 20s in the machine for max shrinkage at the start, but I think on the reboot, I'll take the ROy approach, as i prefer the feel - also, your damn turn-ups stay in place with more starch and sizeing in the jeans!

OVerall, I don't think either approach gives a significantly different result down the line; it's more about how you want your jeans to feel in the first few months.

You can also click "other media" at the bottom of the post, them simply paste in the URL, and the system adds the tags for you.

Nice pix! I really like Dawson now that they're introducing more nautical items, feels truer to their place of origin somehow.

2 hours ago, Nei.Nor said:

Here’s my USN shawl neck or deck jumper.

The denim is really nice and crisp at first, then it softens up and becomes even better. Amazing fabric. The little details like the kasuri lined pockets and the fact that it’s all made by hand on old Union machines makes this quite special.

I’m also eyeing up their wabash jacket and the new tapered fit. If anyone has pics of those, I’d love to see them.

 

https://s18.postimg.org/9sqjtuw89/A36292_E2-2_A6_B-4_B37-_A130-7705654928_B8.jpg[/IMG]

https://s18.postimg.org/xwhbi99l5/0_E4_D1_BA1-5_DE1-4_C38-_BFD4-_F15197255405.jpg[/IMG]

https://s18.postimg.org/xwhbi9hax/0_AC41217-0716-48_F5-_B56_E-74937_F07_D20_A.jpg[/IMG]

https://s18.postimg.org/7besmpmnd/B9_F998_A3-50_FB-4_E39-8_F60-161_B87972905.jpg[/IMG]

The Mickey Spillane pic is exactly the look of 50s Levi's that it seems hard to replicate. Obviously some of it is his build but that generous top block, without baggy thighs, is a timeless look. Perfect length, too.

Type 1 will be Cone unless it's Japanese LVC. Type 3 only is Kaihara, as is the 505 etc.

I have a question about the thread. This has become a bigger issue for me regarding LVC vs Japanese manufacturers vs Roy 

I've had LVC, Roy and a number of Japanese brands. LVC by far has the worst looking stitching of all of them. It looks really basic and blah. I don't have a problem with Roy and I believe he has stated that he uses polycore. Is what I'm seeing just a variant in crappy poly core and good poly core? Is LVC just springing for garbage polycore thread? 

That's such a good question and I don't really know the answer. I did ask a designer some time back and he told me they'd been forced to go with polycore, rather like Roy, for reliability - it takes longer to stitch all cotton. And, actually, some of it fades in nicely. But some doesn't. Stitching on that deadstock pair simply looks nicer and I can't work out why - although the roughness is a part of it. 

Going forward, if LVC are moving to mostly Kaihara denim, I wonder if they'll do something about these kinds of issues, for instance rayon tags.  If the denim is bought in, and they're made under contract, they will need some USP. Otherwise they might as well get them sewn in Japan again. Or they could hire Roy Slaper?

It's a fascinating topic. After doing some work for Levi's I had a pair of Lot One made for me. We tried on three different rises, what they called high, medium and low. I wanted a 60s carrot-shaped vibe, so wanted a high rise. yet looking in the mirror, the medium looked better, so I went for that. Long story short, I really don't like the feel. Higher rise would have been better What rise works seems to vary so much with what else you're wearing, whether they're a bit more worn and softer, therefore riding lower.

I think Roy is probably the one person that seems to get that higher rise perfect. Haven't measured it but my current pair feel higher than TCB50s, and distinctly higher than SDA103, Full Count, etc etc etc, and look much better for it.

But yes, that original high rise is so distinctive. When you watch Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, you see those jeans are distinctly longer in the top block, it's a really distinctive look and I don't think many repros quite capture that. Sadly there aren't any stills that quite capture the look.

the stitching colour is so much nice on those than the present ones.!

Oh, I forgot to mention that my story on natural indigo being farmed again in the US, inspired by the 1880s, is out now in Wallpaper, with pix by SuFu dude Farhad Samari.

Hmmm. Had to make some tough decisions in the T household. Hence for sale in the usual place... 10% off for SuFu-ers!

These early Capital E and LVC are fascinating, I wish they were better documented. This pair has so many differences from later ones. Maybe it's only me that really cares but they are the last flowering of a century of history.

1 hour ago, volvo240thebest said:

I had to google mensch to understand what it means! it could be either brav'uomo or gentiluomo.

I was especially thinking of the Yiddish sense which means ""someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character. The key to being 'a real mensch' is nothing less than character, rectitude, dignity, a sense of what is right, responsible, decorous."^[2] The term is used as a high compliment, implying the rarity and value of that individual's qualities.

Volvo, thanks for going yet another extra mile for us.

What's Italian for mensch?

0200 probably means February 2000. The model name was the 125, as in a 125 year old jean, repro of the 1875 version. I had a similar pair in raw.

...sent with a little Victorian lead cat that I didn't have time to photograph....