Orientalq

52 minutes ago, Hergert said:

I felt it's not E's problem making clothing with low stock and high price. This is just most fashion brand do. That do making people think those brand and jacket more cool. Imagine E start his brand with a j1a with enough stock all the time and 400 usd price tag. He kinda have to have to make those jacket unreachable for most people in order to keep it as one of the top brand. 

But LV, Rolex spends millions on advertising. Is there any transparency of where ACR R&D is going?

48 minutes ago, brainerd666 said:

And yet somehow this so called problem has led to 25 years of successful r/d, product releases, and collaboration with industry heavyweights smh

Success does not mean optimization is not worth pursuing. Toyota is always searching for ways to make their process more efficient. They do this by encouraging transparency and honesty within the company. I'm not saying Acronym isn't improving but there is a (unpopular) sentiment here that prices have gone up while the products have stayed the same, more or less. I believe its precisely because of Errolson's post-hype hubris that pricing will sour Acronym's future.

34 minutes ago, mikon_nikon said:

You came in hot, you gotta expect some heat back? 

I came in with heat in the form of discussion. In return you're telling me my points are recycled when all of the points you mentioned: economics, consumer behavior, pricing exploration, supply exploration have all been points I have discussed and used to back arguments. I implore you to search for anybody suggesting a stock increase AND price decrease in this topic. You won't. It's new and relevant. Whether scaling is really possible or not is something worth discussing rather than your put down post. 

Many of the old points I brought forward were because others like Brainerd wanted context so I did some searching in the past. 

Old points being old do not make it any less relevant. Yes, you might have price-complaint fatigue, but don't you think other people might have price-inflation fatigue too? It's not all about you. There are newcomers here who haven't followed the brand that closely that are culture shocked by the pricing. If you get tired of reading, stop and move to the next post. I don't know how else to put it. 

1 minute ago, markdjr said:

If you want to start a discussion, start your own thread

Last I read I was the only one talking specifically about ACR pricing model AND giving possible solutions. If you think this thread is all roses go to the first page of the thread and you'll find complaints about exclusivity and pricing. This is a systemic problem and it won't go away because you're tired of hearing about it. Sorry you don't get your monopoly on this thread.

4 hours ago, iamundying said:

Looking back now.. E made the price hike at the best possible timing in SS18. If customers had an issue with it, we wouldn't have seen the P10's, P24's, S8-DS (think it cost €600 for a tank top), etc sell out so quickly. E was savvy, or cunning if you prefer, in setting the prices closer to resell prices and tested the market and came away a winner.

It's hard to make a judgment as to the success of something based on selling out. You can only tell if something is failing (J1L, sunglasses, for example). This is because ACR and other retailers do not show exact stock. It's very possible the P10s, P24s were made at low stock, low enough to sell out to enthusiasts who aren't price sensitive but not enough to meet the real demand.

We need more information to make a judgment as to whether price hikes were "a winner" or not. Especially with E's display on Twitter regarding price hikes, its probable that he is saving face/not trying to look greedy with his contradictory claims of " euro wages" when he has moved some production to China.

Stock transparency would be very well appreciated if E would be willing to lose some face in favor of feedback. That said ACR's formula has been a well-kept secret (for better or worse) so it's a tough prospect. 

3 hours ago, moneytalks said:

Bruh if u put all that “knowledge” to good use and get a job as an, idk, economist, u might be able to afford acrnm

As I said in my conversation with @jasonlao I have enough for whatever the right price is. I'm not broke, I'm just more price sensitive. It's like that for any hobby. Someone people think spending 2k on a jacket is acceptable, some people don't. I happen to think J1A at 2k is pushing it when it has sold for less before. 

8 hours ago, mikon_nikon said:

What’s your end goal? If you’ve such a strong critique of how they operate, then just write them an email. Or send the man himself a DM. 

As you lurk here you’ll know you’re not the first to have a point of view on the ACRONYM business model, yet you’ve just haphazardly presented the same lazy critique with an assured confidence that yours is the superior take on things.

Read the room a bit more next time. 

I have told E and he always replies with "you're not in the industry" which means nothing to me. It's clear he has a been on the hype craze especially with his love affair with hypebeast. Hence why I talked to people who are in the industry close to ACR who agree that price hikes are more marketing than logistics.  

I'm not the first but I won't be the last either. So what, because someone has complained about the business model months, or even years, back means that you can't talk about the same topic again? "Stop giving your lazy critique of capitalism, Marx did it before! Read the room!" Also with the news of an infamously skilled replica manufacturer taking on ACR you don't think it's fair to put that into context of pricing? 

In response to "lazy critique" I really don't see how my rhetoric or its contents are lazy or half-assed. Please elaborate. I also haven't projected any "sense of superiority" over any of the members on this forum. I haven't claimed to have had the "superior take" in any of this. In fact I have made it clear that my viewpoint is more rare especially in an enthusiast space. Dissent is fair game. I'll take as many neg reps as it takes to keep the ongoing topic of price, especially if there is a contextual reason to do so.

I seriously don't get the "shut up" attitude some have here. If someone has a viewpoint I disagree with, I would start a discussion, not shut him up.

8 minutes ago, markdjr said:

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, might as well start your own clothing line and show him how its done.

I'm going to get so much hate for this here, but this is enfin leve manifest. Especially with enfin going as far as replacing ACR for some retailers.

But I haven't purchased enfin because I don't support copycats (or reps) either... I buy ACG because I want to support E going mainstream.

I want to see a middleground where ACR reverts the price gouging over the years but stays at a high price (hence why I said J1A at 1500-1600 USD not 1200 or lower which is also profitable). I just don't buy the low stock theory of hype and luxury. 

46 minutes ago, appolez said:

That’s not how Veblen goods operate under “simple economics”, but go off chief.

Veblen goods like Rolls Royces shouldn't go out of stock (at the speed the J1A does). It's clear he's doing this to build/show hype much like how Yeezy's go out of stock. The difference is that his stock is so low that it barely services the demand. Why aren't Rolls Royce Phantoms priced at 3 million? Higher prices mean more demand, right? It's because of stock. They need to sell at a fair price, and yes, if that price allows for the Veblen good to sell more at a higher price, great. But there is no indication that the J1A wouldn't sell out at 1600 with double the stock. It's the same reason the J1A isn't sold for 3k instead of 2k. 

42 minutes ago, markdjr said:

 The fact that you think ACR was fairly priced at one point and now is not shows how out of touch you are. 

Not really, others have pointed out how inexpensive ACR has been compared to now. The price hikes have been noticeable. Example: J48-SS @ 627 euros in 2015 vs @ 1512 euros today. 

Increased production is not the goal, which means E is intentionally suffocating supply to gouge enthusiasts for the sake of hype, (or if he is talking about sustainability, but we all know the amount of waste Acr produces is meaningless compared to fast fashion, and such a stock increase would not bring them anywhere close to said phenomenon. Why not instead take proceeds from more stock and really put where his mouth is by investing in new sustainability projects?) Also, more stock = more employees = more profit = better wages. 

11 minutes ago, markdjr said:

This is some of the dumbest shit I've seen in the 649 pages of this thread.  No fucking kidding there are people like you who would buy ACR if it were cheaper.  There is no need to prove worth to you or anyone, this is simple economics.  There is a price for these goods and people choose to buy them or not.  You are a person who is choosing not to buy them and are making that declaration on a fan page comprised of people who have chosen to buy.  ACR is a luxury brand, always has been, that is the reality of the situation.  It doesn't matter how many pockets this shit has or how good the tailoring is, it is still just a jacket, or pant or whatever.  Go buy a used gore tex jacket off of ebay and save your money, no big deal, stay warm, stay dry and shut the fuck up.  

If you knew simple economics you would know setting stock to extreme lows at a high price is NOT the way to meet price equilibrium. I can guarantee you J1A at sub-1600 with double the stock would still sell out (and thus more profit). 

I am on this fan page because I like the design (aka I'm a fan) and some ACR used to be priced fairly pre-hype. "Go buy something else and shut the fuck up" is gatekeeping at its finest despite the fact that I have also bought ACR. I would rather speak out and have a chance of any hint of this getting into E's ears than not. 

Liking Acronym and being price-sensitive are not mutually exclusive.

24 minutes ago, jasonlao said:

He doesn't need to prove shit to you 

with that thick skull of yours. 

"need" is used here in a conditional sense, not a "HE MUST DO THIS OR ELSE" kind of way, sorry if it came out wrong. Calling me stubborn despite having explained my case AND responding to yours with a sound argument is not working here. 

I agree with the design, materials, etc. It's timeless, no doubt. Compared to Arcteryx (or even tilak)? Harder to prove especially with the huge gap despite the materials and basic functionality. " gimmick"(not just my words) aspects like Ezip and Gpockets have rare use cases and are not 100% provable to be worth said price gap. 

It's especially because ACR experience is so varied that I have doubts over its value. I own a CP4, it's cool and as gimmicky as other pieces and the quality is fine. Of course, the J1A and CP4 are different animals but having seen and felt a J1A first hand it doesn't really "beat", so to speak, other pieces like Arcteryx or ACG by that big of a margin. That plus the "investor bias" that happens due to the jackets being so expensive being taken into consideration makes the case even harder to prove. 

I don't need to buy Riot Division when ACG exists/existed. I'm just making my voice heard that there are people like me (whether you believe me or not is up to you) that are willing to buy ACR at the right price or value.

@brainerd666 losing it

27 minutes ago, jasonlao said:

Why would he lower the costs of J1A when it sells out at its current price point anyway?

The same reason any company lowers prices. It sells out because (hint hint) the stock is super low (someone who knows umites personally told me this). E isn't lowering either because 1) he's saving face from when he tried justifying price hikes using half-lies or 2) he's trying to generate hype the same way Supreme does (I hate this so much).  Raise stock => less cost => lower prices => more stock sold and thus more total profit. Unless you're telling me ACR is dying so badly he needs to hike prices to gouge enthusiasts to save the brand. I doubt this given that he drives a McLaren.

As I said earlier, I have enough for whatever jacket he's making. He just needs to prove to me it's worth the price tag (either by quality, materials, design, or all of the above). I bought the CP4 because it was a unique design that did not have a competitive alternative. I'll be happy to do the same for a shell. That or if he lowered prices, which you said is unlikely. 

I like ACR for its design, gimmicks, and details. Not so much for exclusivity and branding (worst parts about fashion today IMO). 

BTW @AvantSol my friend has a J1A 2.2, which is why I'm familiar with the quality. It's def a grail jacket but not worth the 2k price tag IMO. 

2 minutes ago, AvantSol said:

I see. It seems to me you want some justification for paying for less for a rep that is 'equal' in quality to actual Acronym pieces. If acronym is currently out of your reach financially maybe you shouldn't be overly vocal on things you don't know about, eh? Such as construction, pricing, quality, iterative changes etc especially if you haven't tried it on hand to understand these things. And pricing complaints have been a thing since the very beginning of acr and that isn't gonna change going forward. No point trying to justify paying for what at the end of the day is fashion which is just a luxury. 

Yeah pretty much. Maybe it's the Asian financial discipline in me that's holding me back from pulling the trigger. I have money set aside for a shell so it's not exactly out of reach but at the same time, I don't want to incentivize E's price hikes by buying an overpriced good. I won't buy a rep for obvious reasons but if its success convinces E to change then I might be more open to buying retail. Such a shame all the proof of concept in ACR is being locked away behind a price floor. If he still sold a J1A for 1400 (which he 100% still makes money on) I would have one in my hand right now. 

@brainerd666 hard to tell what you're trying to say now that you have resorted to tiktok and pintrest as a means of communication 

3 minutes ago, AvantSol said:

Wait  @Orientalq do you not own any Acronym?

I own the meme cape. Looking to buy a shell in the future. I like ACR design so I mostly lurk here for news/updates. Pricing has been a pretty big obstacle tho.

edit: also if it counts I own ACG (Errol era) shells and pants (because Nike can run a business)

Just now, brainerd666 said:

Downvote this @Orientalq

K

Just now, brainerd666 said:

brainerd666 really bringing the brains and the bants!!

1 minute ago, brainerd666 said:

Denounce but you bring them up like it’s some rationale for being broke

Did E cockblock you at the soda fountain or some shit?

No, I like E, don't like his pricing. That's it. I have savings but I'm not dumping it all for a 1.5k shell (yet). I bring up reps because it proves (not completely but it's a point) there's a misguided perception as to the pricing of ACR. Are reps voldemort? Even E accepts that they exist and are the problem with the fashion industry. But to say my point is moot because "reps are bad" is a little too far.  

Just now, brainerd666 said:

The only answers you have is where to send money for your shitty reps

pretty dishonest response considering I have denounced reps for the third time now. Or did you "forget" again? 

Dw I forgot about it too, only looked it up since you asked. Did you get your answer?

On 5/12/2020 at 11:13 AM, dreamboatjustsoul said:

It is quite a common trend that brands put 1-3k retail to expecting sale on 50% off. $1-2k for a jacket is stratospheric retail price for a designer brands. But E doesn't do sale (blatantly)

Greed is endemic in fashion, which is sad.

On 5/13/2020 at 9:36 AM, Rough Sleeper said:

I never questioned financial transparency of a company in the first place, I simply stated that I don't like his pricing strategy and that Errolson contradicts himself with his statements regarding price increase. I don't have a degree in finance, I just wanted to speculate on the future of the brand and vent my frustration.

I just checked 13 online shops that carry ACR from acrnm to coevo and (pretty much) everyone still has all sizes of J1L-GT which is ridiculous if you think that most shops buy pretty small amount of items. It may be COVID or may be what I said in previous post, we will see in the future, but I don't think that Errolson will back out of his decision.

On 5/13/2020 at 1:07 AM, Rough Sleeper said:

So what do you want to say? As a brand admirer I can't have opinion on the brand or Errolson and post it here? I understand that this is not the best place to have that kind of discussion because most people here are hardcore acronym fans and will buy canned tuna for 250EUR if it will have ACRONYM logo on it. But lets be real, my first acr purchase was J27GT and I paid 655 pounds, now it's 1736EUR, what changed since? Production in China costs more? It is made from next-level-nasa-approved fabric? The pattern is now 100 times more complex? Hyperinflation? Nothing changed apart Errolson's appetite and hype surrounding the brand (they even stopped producing dope seasonal videos). And to make things worse, they don't come up with anything good nowadays, take SS20 for example: J82-WS, J1L-GT J84-S, P35-DS all are laughable, nobody would eat up this shit if it wasn't Acronym. Yeah, P10-DS are amazing, but they were designed by Schneider, not Errolson. C1-AM? That shit was released 13 years ago. 

Whatever guys, I see you have more fun bragging about reviewing expensive cars, digging someones old tweets, talking about quality roast material (lmao) and downvoting me for having different opinions. Nothing to discuss here.

And I'll quote one of my own here that has some positive rep and sums my idea up

On 5/13/2020 at 10:55 AM, Orientalq said:

LOL you missed the point of the post. I'm arguing that just because you don't work at a company doesn't mean you can't criticize its pricing practices. What does that have to do with the net worth of Errolson and Bezos? You think that because Amazon is publically traded that we know jack shit about what their corporate strategies are?

"Well guys we don't know how ACR works so let's just keep buying overpriced Jackets cuz it's cool, nothing to see here~" serves no one any good. No one is claiming to know for certain how much cash Errolson is pocketing from each jacket sold. Speculation is how you make a decision as to whether the consumer is being fleeced. Sorry we don't have parents who have bottomless wallets. 

 Calm down with your character attacks. Being a pro "roaster" for "swag" points doesn't mean anything for an argument. If anything it says more about your own insecurities, "brainerd666".

(oh hey, It was a response to you, Brainerd!)

On 9/18/2020 at 11:32 AM, eidolarr said:

Some laptops listed here: https://acrnm.com/products/RMT01_NA

Might be the least price-inflated item on the store right now :^)

On 9/14/2020 at 4:22 PM, IzunaK said:

I'm new to buying ACR gear, but jesus christ that is one hell of a price bump.

On 9/10/2020 at 7:30 AM, Inkinsurgent said:

 

reading this thread's first post and seeing "prices keep going up" in 2007 got a chuckle out of me.

On 9/14/2020 at 4:20 PM, bboysparrow said:

For reference...here's what I paid for my J48-SS five years ago.

On 5/12/2020 at 9:23 AM, Rough Sleeper said:

I don't think this is fair comparison. Errolson just got greedy after seeing resale prices. Now hype is slowly dying and items are starting to sit on shelves. He can sell J1A, J36, J28, P10 forever, but people really 100% like what brand is doing now? Shit's got too lazy and too expensive at the same time. There will be always hardcore fans who will support the brand no matter what, just like with Visvim and I don't think Errolson will starve any time soon, but on the other hand it was worth it? Maybe he should've stopped at some point and put more effort into the brand instead of lying to customers about European salaries, moving production to China, new features etc? Acronym magic is gone for me, and maybe i'm not the only one:

On 10/26/2020 at 7:07 AM, hentaiyarou69 said:

> Made In China

Did they move production to China now? Or is it just the J68? (and possibly the P31, explaining the price)

On 9/22/2020 at 8:20 AM, Cornuto said:

Honestly, I kinda hate nylon. Certainly not at ACRNM price points.

36 minutes ago, brainerd666 said:

Who’s ‘we’ @Orientalq

One of them got banned recently, and don't pretend we haven't talked about price hikes on this forum lol

although talking about price = insta neg rep and dogpiling so the 'we' group seems smaller

2 hours ago, beepy said:

Problem was your post read as a pitch, not a warning. A “Hey, look out - this guy who makes near exact replicas is planning to make a j1a out of actual goretex next year.” in the fakronym thread would probably have been well received.

My main point was being that if someone could produce a decent J1A for under 360 (which was the supposed SALE price, meaning it would cost even less to make), the pricing of ACR would be hard to justify. Many of the people on this board who were and are brand enthusiasts have certainly voiced their concerns over Acronymflation. There was a consensus for SOME that because ACR had 'extremely delicate weave patterns' or whatever, the pricing was justified when in reality the cost of production from a replica maker (who also needs to spend considerable R&D vs. ACR having over 10 years of making the same thing with little tweaks) can do it for over a fraction of the price. At that point, you really have to scrutinize the pricing model. This applies especially for rereleases with literally 0 changes but a huge price hike.  It's as if Toyota remade the same car and charged +40% of its original asking price. You would have to ask the question WHY, even if you were a diehard Toyota fan. IMO it's as important of a topic as ever to discuss until ACR does make changes to their post-hype and post-nike pricing.

Don't get mad at people talking about prices, get mad at E. He's the one pricing the goods. We'll stop the moment he releases a gtx jacket actually worth 1.5k or priced fairly.