cultpop 0217

paul t

i dont feel so sheepish for thinking those 501s we discussed were real before.

im clearly not the only one who got fooled

this week its

dfa 1979 " woman, machine" current favorite band ( r.i.p.)

the mummies "death from unga bunga"

mando diao "hurricane bar"

eagles of death metal

white stripes "de stilj"

wicked "original cast recording"

dfa 1979 "romance bloody romance"

hepcat "out of nowhere"

the smiths "best of "

travis "the man who"

the briefs

batman begins score (hans zimmer, james newton howard)

detroit cobras "baby"

go team! s/t

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Feb 21, 2006 at 07:03 PM

Quote:

tshirt

jeans

socks

sneakers

--- Original message by lyingonyourdriveway on Feb 21, 2006 06:27 PM

thats weird.

im wearing the exact same outfit.

ooooooooohhhhhhhhh! (in a scary voice)

thats a goocher

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Feb 21, 2006 at 06:40 PM

those are weird!

i will continue to hate on nike.

most companies use cheap overseas labor but nike is in a class all its own. they literally have blood on their hands.

there are documented cases of workers who have gone missing or met with violence after trying to form labor unions in overseas factories. it was only after extreme pressure from consumer groups (and amnesty international!) that they have started to clean up their labor practices.

you can keep your limited ed. colorway bling/junk thank you.

and i will also hate any company that uses money and influence to infiltrate an industry (skateboarding) that they did not support when it was unprofitable. props to p-rod and crooked chet for getting paid but i would rather spend my money on vans (yes i know they make shoes in chinese factories). but unlike nike they have been down for skaters since 1752 (give or take a few years). and to add insult to injury nike now makes/owns my favorite shoe of all time, converse chuck taylors.

and the fact that they have always had some of the best advertising (print and tv) makes me hate them even more. money=power=abuse. insideous.

and please tell me how gap is revolutionary? if the blanding/homogenization of american fashion is revolutionary than count me out.

and btw i have nothing but love for levis.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Feb 21, 2006 at 07:25 PM

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Feb 21, 2006 at 07:32 PM

nike

nike

nike

nike

nike.

i actually like some of the shoes but i hate the company. i vote with what brands i buy and where i shop. i will never wear nikes until they start paying a a fair working wage. im no hippie but nike are greedy greedy whores. and stay the fuck away from skateboarding assholes.

Quote:

Quote:

Not sure if the second one's pictured above are the selvage ones or not....the only ones i have seen with the horsehide belt loops and that weird square dark spot on the back pockets have not been selvage.

The new Selvage light washed ones I saw didn't have the horsehide belt loops

--- Original message by Bill on Feb 19, 2006 09:26 PM

sybaritical / bill

The second pair I posted aren't new - they've been out for a season. The new ones are detailed below:

Selvage are really short - like I said

--- Original message by StrictlyRoca on Feb 20, 2006 12:27 PM

these look like those horribly overpriced ezra fitch jeans, except prps are even more expensive. whats the attraction?

Quote:

Hmm there clears up the air .. but thing is i went to japnese website and saw those 19cm jeans which seems not really that tight IMHO.... maybe they are .... now my aim is getting something like Hoboken cut.. which is so skinny.

--- Original message by Noddy on Feb 18, 2006 08:13 AM

why not just buy some julian red hobokens? they are great jeans and much cheaper than dior. everyone acts like no one wore skinny tapered jeans before hedi slimane. hes just aping a punk rock style that goes back to the mods. dont buy the hype.

Quote:

Im a 27-28 in most brands. What would I be in the Sliq?

--- Original message by greentalks43 on Feb 14, 2006 01:49 AM

i would guess about a 30 or 31. im a 30/31 in levis, 29 in diesel, 31 in julian red and most h 7 m jeans a 30 or 31 but my sliq are 33. they are sized very small.

go pick up some 501s or 517s at sears or the salvation army. break em in yourself. dont go wearing premium jeans to the skatepark, its a waste. you could also try some stretch jeans like krew although for a skate brand they dont really hold up too well. ive got some vintage levis that have a bit of stretch to them and they look good without restricting my movement.

go to ebay. type in vintage 501. go nuts.

you could also go the Levis Vintage Clothing route (LVC). they make authentically detailed reproductions of different styles and eras of levis from well worn 70's bootcuts to raw and rigid 50's style 501s. LVC isnt cheap though and if your inexperienced with denim youll likely be paying for details that you might not care about (selvedge on the outseam or a particular type of rivet).

your best bet is track down some newer vintage either online or do a little legwork and hit up your local salvation army or thrift store. they will have tons of levis and with a little luck you can find some great pairs.

keep in mind the fading on some of the pairs you showed is excellent and unless you get lucky at the salvo you will pay for wear like that whether its authentic or reproduction.

your best bet is to look on ebay for post redline 501s. you should be able to find some decent pairs without breaking the bank.

i have a pair of h&m sliq stretch that i love.

They are definately slim not tight with a tapered 7 1/4 inch leg opening. the fit is similar to the new standard or jrcalifornia depending on how you wear them.

the denim has held up so far and looks great. similar texture to nudies stretch denim. they appear to be pretty durable definatly better than h&ms past denim.

they are a very deep blue color. so blue that they turned my hands blue for weeks and stained my checkerboard slips. I gave them a rinse with little to no color loss and have been starching them regularly. be warned. they will bleed alot and stain anything light that they come in contact with. definately give them a nice long rinse and a tumble on high.

They have started to get some good wear and the honeycombs are looking especially nice. I have been wearing them 3-5 times a week at work and they have held up nicely and are very confortable. nice details like purple pocket linings and subtle back pocket stitch make them a steal for $40.

oh and the sizing is a bit off maybe running a size or 2 smaller than marked. the quality is ok but you get what you pay for i guess. cheap swedish style.

does anyone know where or how i can get a pair of levis 606 deadstock or lvc raw. i've found tons on sites like rakutan but i can't read japanese (yet.) thanks!

those jeans are beautiful. that has to be one of the best lap fades ive ever seen.

Quote:

that's more a case of 'don't skate with tight jeans'. i think only matt hensley was able to pull it off successfully.

Edited by giantreptile on Feb 8, 2006 at 02:18 PM

--- Original message by giantreptile on Feb 8, 2006 02:18 PM

i skate in tight jeans but either a. they have some stretch or b. they are 501s( like hensley). never had a crotch tear in levis!

genetic denim?

looks like its a few chromosomes short.

thats definately a selvedge seam. those jeans are amazing looking imho. how bout some more pics?

Quote:

Just wondering what people think of the other new Cheap Monday style?

not sure myself?

http://se.zoovillage.com/store/productdetail.asp?CategoryID=0|0&BrandID=265&DisplayItemID=18279&Position=22&ListType=1

--- Original message by atariswede on Feb 1, 2006 10:30 AM

horrifying!

these remind me of late 80's early 90's cavariccis. its a horrible look that i just can't beleieve is coming back around. tapered pants are only acceptable if they are slim the whole way down. these are like hammerpants or zubazz.

horrendous.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Feb 1, 2006 at 01:43 PM

i will always have a soft spot for (mostly) vintage levis. the arcuate on the back pocket is my favorite thing ever and (most) of the denim lasts forever. but finding a pair that fits good isnt always easy or cheap. and most of the new cuts and washes suck. if lvc would make deadstock versions of every piece id be happy but i wont spend $200+ on non-vintage jeans that are already halfway there. would you take sandpaper to a pristine pair of 1940's 501's or just wear them?

julian red. i ve been wearing my nikki sixx since i got them a month ago and i love them. they fit awesome, very snug and slim but very comfortable in the crotch. the button fly and white patch look badass and the color of the denim might be my favorite ever. pictures definately don't do these justice. im currently saving my pennies for another pair. either raw californias or a pair of unwashed hobokens. im also dying to try some of the other swedish brands like stray boys, nudie, and acne.

i also have a soft spot for diesel rabox. the fit suits my body perfectly. i have some with darker subtle washes that i wore for years (art80m was my fave) and i never had a problem with quality. unfortuantely most diesel washes are too gimicky for my taste and rabox is no more. and i would never (and have never) pay full retail for diesel.

style wise im also a big fan of 5ep, apc, earnest sewn (wobbly orange and gulf blue stitching rules!) and some of the japanese brands like samurai and imperial. i have little to no experience with these but like what ive seen. i have always preferred raw and slim denim so there is alot out there i like right now.

in general i like darker heavier denim, slim to tight fitting with a button fly, and some pocket embellishment (ala levis or nudie). my favorite part of wearing denim is how it yields to your shape over time and i prefer to put my own wear and tear into them.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 31, 2006 at 05:08 PM

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 31, 2006 at 05:14 PM

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 31, 2006 at 05:16 PM

those look awesome. please post more pics!

Quote:

depends on how tight your jeans are.. if they're slim on your waist/hips area you can definitely put a good amount of stress on the zip if you're doing something active. I've had several zippers break on jeans. Granted, they were cheap $30 Levis or something like that, but still, nothing's more annoying than a broken zipper you have to keep pulling up every 10 minutes.

--- Original message by gomi no sensei on Jan 30, 2006 03:34 PM

thank you. i agree completely. zippers break and fall down and get old and in general suck. gomi is right about how snug your jeans are. loose or baggy jeans dont put much stress on the hips/crotch.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 31, 2006 at 07:45 AM

Quote:

yes, I have seen the archives, both jeans and paperwork. Levi's actually keep a detailed list of every jean that was ever produced in the US (and remember, that is where it is claimed these jeans were made). PM me if you want details.

The selvage on the coin pocket alone is a clear indication that these are fakes made in Thailand. Search here and you'll find plenty of other similar examples. When Levi's produced reissues with non-standard or incorrect features, these instantly became notorious - for instance, the inaccuracy of the first Capital E reissues - so to argue that much more radically different 501 jeans like this could be produced, and there would be no record of it, is simply untenable.

The only selvage Levi's reissues that predated the LVC were the Capital E reissues of 1991 produced in valencia, and a run of Japanese reissues using fabric from Kurabo from around 1987. Do look through some of the information on this site, about Thai fakes, and about Levi's reissues.

--- Original message by Paul T on Jan 30, 2006 02:11 AM

paul t.

thank you for the lively debate and for the knowledge you have dropped. if you recognize the markings of a fake then i am in no position to argue. i have seen a few fakes in my day and these blow them away and my clearly less trained eye could not discern the tell tale signs you picked out. i would like to thank you for indulging my banter and look forward to further discussion in the um (super) future.

p.s. anyone know where i can get my hands on some thai 501 knock-offs?

Quote:

"but i dont have access to the levis archive like you clearly do..."

Oh. So you haven't realised the guy HAS had access to the Levi's archive?

--- Original message by Busted Seam on Jan 29, 2006 10:46 PM

i dont know if he has seen the archives or not BUT just because he has seen these mystical and all knowing archives before does not make these jeans fake. (no disrespect. i would cut off a limb to see inside the vaults

the archive can't possibly have everything ever in it and to my eye (and some others) the details look legit and the fact that they are of a higher quality than most 501s seems to indicate that, although they are anomalous, they may in fact be genuine.

im not trying to be confrontational i just think that you cant eliminate these just because you havent seen anything like them before. i know paul t has seen and owned lots of vintage levis and repros but that doesnt account for the wide variety of finishes and variations in the past 20 years, especially before people were paying attention to things like single stitch and selvedge.

im trying to be objective.

the hardware looks genuine. the denim looks authentic. if they are fake that inside care tag was carefully removed from a post redline pair of 501s and they put in an incredible amount of work on details most would not notice until fairly recently (fake or not id say these jeans have been around a while).

i know that some early reproduction selvedge levis (pre lvc) were available in some european markets like the u.k. and france way before they were available in the u.s. i remember trying to get a hold of a pair. i had read about them in overseas rockabilly magazines like the late and great french Continental Restyling. $300 but the denim wasn't as good as some of the japanese brands popping up like evis they said. they also mentioned spotting some really great japanese fakes.

but these dont look like they are trying to be 40's or 50's repros.

like i said i dont know if they are real or fake for certain but i dont see any evidence that they're fake and some evidence that they are real so until i have more to go on that's my humble opinion.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 30, 2006 at 12:50 AM

Quote:

Sorry Cultpop, but the history of selvage model 501s, original and repro, is very well-documented. Levi's have good archives which contain nothing resembling this. Completely untypcial features like selvage on the coin pocket to me are indisputable evidence that this is fake. One could look at further details (the inside of the rivets for example) which are particularly hard to fake, but that's un-necessary here. The two-horsse badge and extra selvage detailing are dead giveaways.

--- Original message by Paul T on Jan 28, 2006 07:15 AM

sorry paul t, very well aware of the history of 501's thank you but i dont have access to the levis archive like you clearly do.

first thing i would like to say is please dont assume because i just started posting here i dont know what im talking about. ive been a levis freak much longer than superfuture (or internet access for that matter) has been around and there are much better sources of info than online message boards.

levis made 501's for nearly 15 years after the redlines went bye in the early 80's before making any real "repros". for most of that time very few people outside of the rockabilly scene knew or cared about details like selvedge.

in fact for many years you could walk into the flagship store here in chicago and custom design a pair of jeans with your choice of model, cut, rivet color etc... and DENIM. who knows what combos came out of this situation. dont assume youv'e seen every variation of a jean that has been immensely popular for decades and has been sold and manufactured all over the world.

i think its entirely more plausible and possible that levis made a strange selvedge 501 ( that you personally just haven't come across) during the past 2 decades than-what?-- someone (with access to genuine hardware) decided to knock off 501s and make them of a much much higher quality than real levis were at the time?

having said that and after seeing the inside tags i would have to say that these do still look authentic. or should i say i see no evidence they are not. the inside tag is identical (aside from the specific numbers) to many pairs i have and if they are fake they did a great job judging by THE INSIDE OF THE RIVETS that bear the levis & strauss stamp. the back two horse leather patch is also identical to those ive seen (although ive not seen them on 501's).

i cant really be sure without holding them in my mitts but i dont think they look like fakes. just my opinion not trying to start a fight.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 29, 2006 at 10:02 PM

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 30, 2006 at 12:32 AM

button fly tend to be more durable, less likely to come open and most importantly offer a better fit. the fly can stretch, bend, and move more easily than a rigid zipper which can not bend from side to side like buttons.

there is also the element of tradition as kapay mentioned.

and they look better and create cooler fade marks!