mstax

2 hours ago, silencejoe said:

Ar, i see, looks like all cotton to me

Yep, that’s what I meant!  Interesting, I had a S506xx Valencia street and it was poly stitched, found that peculiar.

^ Thanks for the comparison! Too bad LVC put an R on that red tab. Out of curiosity: what’s the stitching on the LVC, poly or cotton?

On 3/8/2020 at 3:57 PM, Broark said:

That jacket is definitely impressive. I got mine yesterday and I'm very happy with it.
I'm surprised at how lightweight the denim is, feels like I could actually wear this through the spring.
This is exactly the type I I've been waiting for, will get some fit pictures soon.
Faux aging on the patch is a little much, think that's my only small complaint.

Damn I need this one. Looking to replace the orSlow I have which unfortunately had poly stitching that I didn’t like.

3 hours ago, Dry said:

Yes. They are pre 1971 selvedge unsanforized and shrink to fit. The pics were posted on 19th October 2021 on Page 748.

That’s a nice pair you’ve got! Cool that it’s your size. I’ve got a 605-0217 in that same font style, sadly too small for me. Great denim. So we have two fabric types here (both selvedge):

0117 Shrink to fit

0217 Pre-Shrunk

1 hour ago, Dry said:

I am giving the 502-0117 Big Es that I got 12 months ago, an airing today. They have softened up greatly with wear and the 50+ year old denim has a certain nice slubiness about it.

Nice! Do you have a full fit pic? 0117, is that selvedge?

54 minutes ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I heard this rumor quite often over the years 

4 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Those whispers can be found in the LVC thread on the ghost ship Denimbro.

Yeah but seems more than a rumour from what I read. Anyway LVC does not have much good things to offer if you compare them to the Japanese repro brands. Gone are the days of Cone Denim and the Sawtooth and Sunset shirts (those were great). They might blend it in with the main line, who knows. Time will tell.

Anyone else heard rumours about LVC shutting down after next season? Not sure if this is true.

31 minutes ago, Dr_Heech said:

 

Well your both right, he did wear them for a short while and then he sold them.

 

Knew it! 

For me the most cool about that jean (or pants?) is how wearable it still is and how f*cking cool you’ll look in it : )

12 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Great find and fit too. Did you remove the Wrangler patch from the back pocket or did it fall off in the wash?

I removed it. I wore it unwashed for a day and it was not comfortable with that patch. Thick piece of plastic. Figured it would damage the fabric as well if I would leave it on.

26 minutes ago, chicote said:

Those are awesome, and the fit is surprising to me, the jeans look a lot less tapered and dramatic on you than they do laying flat. Thanks for sharing @mstax and welcome to Sufu!

Thanks! Good to be here! Yeah I was pleasantly surprised too, the fit really works I think. Feels a little Ivy, but rugged. The backpocket shape with the big W’s I really like.

Hi everyone!

New here, it's so nice to see all the vintage denim in this thread. There are really some beautiful pieces I saw come by. My name is Michiel and I live in Netherlands. I've liked 50's-70's Americana since a loooong time and hence the love for denim and workwear. Some years ago I started to get more into the history and collecting the denim garments that basically laid out the foundation for what we love to wear still. Vintage denim has it's own character. To me it's really something different from the repro models. All the quirks and details of things not being perfect are in each garment and I love that. Apart from that, the fabrics are really truly amazing and when something is worn hard it's even better : )

I wanted to share a quite unique piece I found recently which I learned a lot from. I live in Europe and therefore it is not really easy to have access to the denim garments I love so much. But, during my years of collecting and research I found out that denim was already available in Europe quite early. In the early 60's a lot of people already knew about Levi's and Lee and both brand advertised in youth magazines. Youth was buying their 501's in the early 60's. Also, around that time the first production factories were set up here in Europe by denim brands.

In 1962 Blue Bell opened their first factory in Belgium to produce Wrangler garments for the European market. Mind you, this was still the time of left hand twill and Wrangler Blue Bell branded so to me this was really a surprise. You all will definitely know the Wrangler model 11MWZ (later renamed 13MWZ), this was also made in Belgium of left hand twill denim. 

Now in the 50's jeans were basically straight, with a few variations here and there. In the 60's the shape of jeans started to diversify more to appeal to a wider audience and to shed image of workwear. One of the shapes was a more tailored, slim fit. Levi's did this with their famous 606 jeans and the 'spikes' which were available in different colours. The tailored, slim for was meant for for example school. 'Fit for school' was a slogan widely used. Because of this altered fit it was more accepted to wear a jean to school because it looked a lot more neat. 

Wrangler also jumped on this trend and came with the 12MWZ, also called Long 'n Leans, Super Leans or the Collegiate Cut. Introduced in the 60's. Apparently Blue Bell decided that these were going to be produced in Belgium as well. And this is what I found. Deadstock condition 12MWZ, produced in Belgium around '63-'65. All the classic Wrangler Blue Bell details in a lean and slim cut. Beautiful left hand twill denim (which was imported from the US I think). I found this in my size and I was doubting to wear it or not because I normally don't like jeans that slim but I think this is an amazing jean that I just had to wear. I gave it a short wash to get the storage dirt and starch out and now I am wearing it. Below some photo's. The whole album is here: https://imgur.com/a/uuawFJI

The Eclair zip was the sign this could be Belgium made:

Notice how the belt loops and backpockets shifted to the left after the one wash:

Interesting to see that the preference seems to be cotton thread or in case of footwear other natural fibers. I collect vintage denim and have some pieces from as early as the 50’s and what I noticed is that the switch came in the mid 60’s. I have two big E 501’s: one 50/50 cotton thread and poly and one completely poly. Poly was used in jeans first, later in jackets but jackets up to the early 70’s use cotton thread whereas the 501’s already had poly. Wrangler used cotton thread to a longer period it seems from the garments I have. Lee I’m not sure. If someone has a Lee 101J from the 60’s I’d love to know what type of thread is used. 

I think it should become more of a standard to mention what type of thread is used as I see we denimheads care about that and make a well considered choice for one or the other.

Thanks for all your feedback!

Also a cotton fan here. Totally agree with what you say. For me it’s also kind of an esthetic reason why I prefer it. The aging and breaking threads adds just the right amount of character to finish that worn in look. Plus up close poly threads have a shine that’s just really not nice when you have quality loomed denim, just doesn’t fit together, looks cheap. I.e. LVC uses poly thread in pretty much everything since even the Valencia days and that really put me off liking their stuff.

Now a well made ring spun poly core and cotton outer thread might be acceptable (not for me) but a 100% poly I’d never go for. Interestingly enough almost none of the brands explicitly communicate what they use for thread. Just some and I’m happy they do. 

I’d go so far that I prefer cotton thread for everything. I think in most cases it’s also the right choice because I don’t see any real advantage in using poly thread over cotton for a t-shirt for example. I mean, how durable and long lasting do those seams really need to be? One example is Merz B Schwanen who uses poly thread for the construction of their garments. I love their fabric and shirts but that thread is a real let down for me unfortunately, it just doesn’t suit the garment (at least for me).

Plus I think cotton thread is also environmentally a little bit better and it makes the garment as a whole better recyclable.

Just wondering, what do guys prefer on your jeans construction wise: cotton or poly thread?

3 hours ago, X_dsufu said:

New here. having several pairs of warehouse denim however recently (~2 years) found the sizing a bit different as before. Used to be a no brainer size 31 in any warehouse, but shockingly found S1001xx-25, S1000xx DSB should be 29 on me (after buying pairs...what a shame), with Inazuma fest models to be 30.

So pretty curious how denim heads here find your own size throughout the haze of those size charts, shrink rates, and the "bounced back waists".

Thanks in advance. Any input will be appreciated.

For me in general (not really WH related) if I’m unsure I just ask the shop the measure the size I want, maybe one extra up or down and send photos of how they measure so I can compare at home. Then with unsanforized denim take a shrinkage into account of 8-10% and you should have a fair indication if something will fit. 

Only thing is, different denim fabrics stretch differently so you could ask the shop also how the denim stretches. 

3 minutes ago, Topnotcher said:

Yes i have this model.

Threads are cotton.

W32 ,true to size.

4 minutes ago, Topnotcher said:

Yes i have this model.

Threads are cotton.

W32 ,true to size.

Nice! Think I will get this one, fabric looks nice even on photos. Added bonus is the inseam length which is not ridiculously long like TCB’s : ) 

25 minutes ago, Topnotcher said:

Tcb 50ies is a slightly straighter cut with a little more leg opening than the WH  1001xx hd.The denim is 13,5 vs 14,5 oz ,but the Tcb is a fantastic fader.I hope the WH will this too.I love the denim of the WH ,perfect for me in thickness and not to soft. Otherwise i am not a fan of the lighter banner denim.

I had a TCB 50s before in a 38, waist was perfect but the legs were too wide. I was thinking to take a 36 now but the waist measurement kind of worries me as being too tight for my liking. Maybe the cut is just not for me that’s why I was looking at the WH 1001xx in heavy ounce. I can have the 38 waist but with a little less wide legs. You have the 1001xx in the 14,5 oz? Cotton thread sewing right?

13 minutes ago, Talan said:

In no way do I want to confuse you, but you have to consider that the waist size stretches back when you wear it. 

Yeah, I know. It’s just that I like my jeans to fit a little more loose so a 38 would be right in this case. I always think it only stretches where it has to.

16 minutes ago, MJF9 said:

^ why a sympathy vote?

This is based on absolutely nothing really, haha. But those guys seem very nice and open. Also because they communicate quite freely on social media and have frequent question and answer sessions. Ofcourse that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that the people behind WH are nice or not, I totally realize that : )

50 minutes ago, Talan said:

In my experience, the WH 1001 continue to shrink even after many washings. Immediately after the first soak and the first wash it may seem that the fit is still too big, but after a year or two it may suddenly seem rather tight. Between WH and TCB I would pick former.

Thanks! This steers me more to size 38. I’m also leaning more to WH than TCB. TCB has my sympathy vote but when looking at the actual denim and cuts, WH has more appeal I think.

On 10/2/2022 at 6:34 PM, NilsLW said:

I’m eyeing a pair of almost raw Levi’s 501-0115 from the early 80’s in my size online. Is there a difference between the 501-0115 compared to the ”regular” 501?

As far as I know 0115 is a fabric type code. The more famous code 0217 stands for Pre-Shrunk for example. I don’t know what 0115 means but it could be any of this I think: pre-washed/rinsed, non-selvedge, left hand twill (yes I had a 501 that was left hand twill, not sure if it had this code), etc.

On a sizing note: I would need about an 18 inch waist after washing. Now the sizing advice and measurements plus expected shrinkage differ from different retailers. How much shrinkage can I expect from WH 1001xx models? Will they shrink more with multiple washes? I’m in doubt between a 38 and 36 size unwashed.

And does anyone have experience with their heavy ounce denim and how it compares to their standard 3 states denim?

5 hours ago, dawei94 said:

What's so bad about poly or polycotton thread that it's worth not buying jeans over?

Well, there are three reasons for me. One is that it would not be period accurate to use poly thread in anything repro before the 60’s. Two is that it’s more environmentally friendly and makes the garment better recyclable in the end. And third, I prefer the aging and breaking of cotton thread and needing to repair it sometimes. Just adds more character to a jean.

8 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

^ Does it really matter?

Honestly, yes to me it does. I care about what I wear and I want to make an effort to choose natural fibers over synthetic ones. I was buying products based on the contents of the label and thought I was good by doing so. Turns out I wasn’t. A garment can have for example 100% cotton on the label but it can be sewn together with a poly thread (and that happens most of the time, even companies that market themselves using only natural fibers). I choose the BR chambray upon the fact that is has all cotton thread construction. It’s not only environmentally better but also it ages better over time. So when I noticed there is an interfacing fabric in between the collar and cuffs I started to doubt if it’s a poly or polycotton interfacing to add the stiffness. Now I’m not an expert so I have no idea what that is, but I’m buying the product so I should be able to know what that is because to me it’s important and I’m investing the money. I’ve just been let down by too many brands in the past. I guess I can always email BR with that question.

I had an interesting journey nitpicking over garments the last years : )