FeloniousMonk

I think the denim evolution is slowing down now, it's hitting that long haul of months 3 to 8 where so little seems to happen until they suddenly have visible creases and lightening. Still, really comfy as everyone says, and the texture on these is beautiful as that vertical falling starts to show up.

 

Was in San Luis Obispo for a wedding recently, so we made a trip out of it and stayed a few days in LA afterward before flying back home. I'm jealous of guthriegking, as California always makes me want to stay longer. Just a few shots from the trip...

 

 

The views down Pismo Beach from our hotel were amazing, spent a nice morning or two down on the beach enjoying the sun and surf before everyone woke up. The shot of the bluffs in the other direction shows that, whatever color striations I can see up close, these jeans still look really dark.

 

 

 

 

Also loved the vineyards around there, went to a few for tastings the day before the wedding. Cheated on the contest a little, wearing my Stevenson 714s in this shot...

 

 

 

Back in LA, we got to enjoy the sights around downtown, did some hiking in the Hollywood hills (up to the Wisdom Tree, then over the Cahuenga and Hollywood peaks to the Griffith Observatory), and had some fantastic meals

 

 

As a minimum you also have to factor in additional transport/logistics/handling costs to get those jeans from Japan to the US plus currency exchange costs. There may be additional local taxes too.

 

True, though I actually would be surprised if the logistics/handling is much worse for jeans coming to NYC than it is for jeans going to far reaches of Japan. I have not read up on logistics networks in the clothing industry, but for a few other industries where I have some familiarity (food, raw materials), the overseas shipping is often the least expensive part of the journey. It's those small-scale trucking routes taking smaller deliveries to and from the major urban logistics centers that adds the most per-unit cost. And those journeys would be pretty similar cost if undertaken in Hokkaido or in the New York Tri-State area.

 

We also don't have VAT (it's kind of a major hassle in the US, all our sales taxes are in addition to the quoted prices if you are in a brick-and-mortar), so that doesn't affect the quoted retail price.

 

Currency risk, yeah, that's a stickler. But that's also mostly a matter of finding someone with a bit more expertise on financial markets who won't screw you, because it is a relatively cheap and easy risk to hedge if you have fairly predictable payment dates and amounts (which should be the case if you are ordering a pretty stable quantity of product at set seasonal deadlines)... But I do bet you're right that this is a risk that almost no local shops hedge out, and they probably tend to overprice it.

 

So yeah. I guess I'm just curious about some of these details of the business. Mostly because I'm a curious sort of person and the details tell a lot about areas of government policy, global trade, power and profit balances up and down the high-end garment supply chain, evolution of business and contract norms in the industry, etc.

Soooo shifting topics somewhat, but talking about those cost frictions for brick-and-mortar stores.

 

Kiya, or any of the other US denim makers/sellers on this forum:

Have you looked into how the Trans-Pacific Partnership would change your costs if it's passed and goes into effect? It looks like textile tariffs between the US and Japan would change, possibly by a lot, which should certainly make Japanese-milled fabric cheaper for any US jeans makers. But I don't know if there's a change in the tariffs for finished garments somewhere in the agreement or how much impact it would really have.

 

Just curious, and the thread suggested that this could be a respectable part of the cost difference between Japanese retail and US retail for the same jeans. I.e. it's not just $5 of tariffs in the price of jeans that are $300 in the US and $220 in Japan...

almost every collab self edge does is geared towards skinny people who wear their pants too tight. 

 

That's why the straight-tapered fad (shift?) has been so great. Finally there are fashionably tapered jeans out there that don't become jeggings in smaller sizes.

 

But eventually the fashion will change, and maybe everyone will be wearing sensible 60s cuts again. Or JNCOs. Who knows.

How are those SR7 jeans looking these days, if you don't mind my asking? Got a pair of the SR11 which started to show some beautiful break-in, but after a couple months I realized the mustang cut is just too slim to work. Definitely regret not getting a larger cut, and would love to see what I'm missing out on.

I'm going to see if the SExTSG collab interests me or if the denim is just too weird for my tastes.

 

If you're worried about the denim potentially being too weird, I suspect it will be. Had a chance to see the sample pair in NYC, and it's probably the most over-engineered fabric I've ever seen. Massive loom chatter, and slub so crazy it looks like they picked random thread widths out of a box. I dig it, and will almost certainly pick up a pair if the new fit works for me, but it's going to be a bit polarizing.

 

My next few years are already spoken for on my shelves. The Ooe contest jeans are going to be a long project, and I'm alternating them with a pair of Stevenson 714 that keep growing on me. Then there's the 22oz Oni jeans for the winter, the Full Count 1101s awaiting attention, the Roy Big Bro 2s that deserve a dedicated owner... If I don't have a kid who ends up with a 31 waist, they're going to be awfully disappointed with their inheritance.

 

At this point, the best way to slow myself down is planning to only pick up something special if I travel. Boncoura 66 looks like a wonderful pair of jeans, which will wait for a London trip. And when/if I get out to Tokyo again, it would be nice to finally see Evisu No 1 in person. And probably the new Strike Golds, if only because they're the jean I've wanted to get since I first got into denim but none of their cuts have ever fit me.

Stevenson overall company has at least 10 cuts in their denim, as well as a full clothing line

 

Probably the clothing and denim line that I would nominate for "most under-discussed", too, given the sheer quality and variety of their line-up as well as their availability through some US and UK stores. I only get see what Self Edge carries in person, but every piece is really well made with similarly unique fabrics to what Flat Head does.

 

And Ben, yeah, I'm a pretty skinny build. Roughly a 38-39 suit jacket (40 in the Flat Head flannel) with waist size 30-31, so it's a bigger drop than most brands tailor for. Flat Head's western fit has the most taper I've found in off-the-rack shirt sizing.

Feloniousmonk, they actually have 4 fits for every almost every shirt fabric, seems like a lot to me! Western and work shirt, and wide body versions for both. There are many options.

 

True, Flat Head has more fits than most. I didn't even know they had wide versions of the western and workshirt! My earlier comment was mostly about why people may talk more about jeans or jackets than about shirts on this forum - it's easier to have a broad experience of jeans across brands than it is to have a broad experience of shirts, since most brands only have one fit of shirts and it can be pretty idiosyncratic in proportions.

 

That said, I still have no end of love for my Flat Head winter flannel, and will probably end up picking up a denim shirt from them as well. That western fit is just so much better than what I've found anywhere else.

True, jeans get the attention. Though shirts tend to be a bit more difficult to fit and therefore are stuck with a smaller slice of the population. Every company we talk about produces at least 2-4 different fits, each of which will suit different figure types and work better at different sizes/proportions. But they'll only produce one shirt fit... Maybe two.

 

This is what gets me with some of the beautiful flannels and other shirts made by a lot of these companies - they fit me like tents around the mid-section if anything fits the shoulders (with the sole exception of Flat Head's western cut, actually). I get most of my shirts tailored, but don't want to do that to beautifully cut and chainstitched shirts from a nice smaller Japanese brand.

 

So I can find jeans that fit from nearly everyone, but shirts that fit from nearly no one. It's way easier to talk about the jeans.

 

(Boots though, that's the next thing y'all are getting me to spend on.)

If your going to London try and pop and see these guys not the easiest shop to get too but best selection of their stuff I've seen and slightly cheaper than Drakes. http://www.alphashadows.com/boncoura

I found the Z denim hasn't shrunk as much as my 66 after a soak but both stretched out ok. Went for 30" in the 66 and 31" in Z. I'm a 31 waist.

 

Thanks! If it helps, I wear a 30 in the Full Count 1101 fit, and would be a 32 in Flat Head 3009. Most jeans, I wear a size 31. You seem to be similar, and you say the 30 fit fine?

 

Never been to Peckham, so Alpha Shadows definitely triggered a "where the..." first reaction, but it looks like the train should get me down there without much hassle. Looks worth exploring, cheers!

goodrain: True, but from NYC it all looks 1/2 off...

 

guthrieg: Good luck with the job hunt, hope you find an area you really like!

been getting ready to move from Minneapolis to LA with my girlfriend.

 

Congrats! Where are you moving in LA?

 

Never expected to like it there, but I've had a couple friends move out for jobs, etc. and every time I visit it's just... nice. Sure there's driving, but there's so much to be said for six more months of sun each year, and weather that perfectly fluctuates between "brisk" and "warm". DoLA is looking better and better.

Wow, that's a lot of shrink in the waist. Did it really lose about 3 inches of total circumference? I'm hopefully getting to London for work in a couple months and thinking about picking up a pair at Drakes while out there. I would probably be between a 30 and a 32, but that amount of shrink suggests I should stick with a larger size.

 

Please let us know how it stretches with wear. I've been excited about this brand for a while, it would be great to see them in person.

Yeah, it's especially nice that the cross-hatching and texture on this denim just seems to have started popping out after a bit over a month of wear. At first the massive contrast between the weft fibers and the very dark warp overwhelmed the slight irregularities, and made it seem like a very uniform denim, a bit boring perhaps. Now that the fabric is starting to lighten up just a little and the warp fibers are getting a little worn and fuzzy, there seems to be more depth. Should get really good with another couple months and more washes.

Needless to say, this did not result in much wear on my jeans aside from travel out and back. But I gave my pair their third wash this weekend and some blues are definitely starting to show up. That leg twist on the right side is gonna get reallllllll good.

 

There seems to be astonishingly fast wear at the outside back pocket rivet, which looks cool but may just mean I'm sitting super lopsided...

 

And has anyone else noticed that the weird horizontal bars are fading a little faster than the rest of the fabric? I seem to notice it in a couple people's pictures. Here it's pretty visible on my thigh. The normal whiskering pattern is up high in this shot, but then you can see straight lines of exaggerated horizontal fading around the middle. Hopefully that will calm down with more wear and washing, but I'm surprised how long those bars have remained noticeable.

Sorry that this post is much delayed, but work and yadda yadda yadda. Time for an update, and this is a pretty long one. Will try to make them a bit shorter, sweeter, and more frequent in the future.

 

 

This has been a pretty monumentally crappy spring in New York, and even the nicest days for strolling through the park were pretty overcast and a bit gloomy. But cherry blossoms make everything better, so that's helpful.

 

Got a chance to take a fit pic while out there. This is almost a month old now, so there's been subsequent progress on the fading.

 

Also there was the America's Cup World Series race just off Manhattan this year. This seemed as good an excuse as any to enjoy the grey skies and sneak cava into coffee to-go cups when the cops weren't patrolling the coastline sidewalks. Not sure if those teams are really getting their full $10M value out of the boats, but damn can they move when the wind gets up to speed. Also, they appear pop entirely out of the water due to a submerged third keel, which will really screw with your head the first couple times to see it.

 

 

But as spring was taking way too long to get here, and we were in pretty dire need of a vacation, the girlfriend and I headed off to Tulum in the Yucatan for a long weekend. Just got back Wednesday and I already miss it.

 

Our bungalow was just a few steps from the beach (and she woke up at sunrise way too many days)

 

 

We tried to spend as much time there as possible

 

 

But excellent meals pulled us away. This was a local restaurant on a private beach - there was one quiet hotel at the top of the inlet, then large private homes all along the beach heading down, and finally this restaurant occupying the last several hundred meters of beach, with tables and hammocks arrayed under palm trees at the edge of the sand. Amazing setting, and the best place to kick back with a couple beers, fresh chips and guacamole, and a heaping plate of ceviche.

 

 

The area also had ruins, just on the outskirts of town and running along the ocean, as Tulum was a port city for the Mayans way back when. And numerous sinkholes in the local limestone rock reach down to the (rather high) watertable, so you can bike to spots in the jungle where a staircase will take you 20-30 feet down to go swimming or diving through the natural caves below.

The extra-deep pocket bags is also a fantastic touch. Hope that catches on, it would definitely be a new design fad I could get behind.

Hell, in New York we do that for our morning donut. Then lunch is another hour and a half wait at the Bhutanese pizza truck.

 

Work attendance is spotty at best.

Oh, and they're just straight-up excellent jeans, too. Wearing them as an occasional break from my Ooe contest jeans (brothers in denim, Broark), and it's kind of hard not to just put them on each day. The denim has a fantastic cross-hatching after the first couple washes, a really nice and unique hue due the subtle greencast, and it just gets so soft after the first couple weeks of wear. Can definitely recommend.

What's wild is based on the thigh and waist id actually be a size 31 (seems odd) I do a 34 in the FH 3009 and a 34 in the 3sixteen ST. Anyone have help?

 

That doesn't sound crazy to me. I would wear a 32 in the 3009 (tried them on, but don't own a pair) and my Stevenson 714s fit quite well in size 30. The waist is just a touch looser than I'm used to, but it's not as if they sag at all. I'm just used to a slightly higher rise and very fitted waist. If my thighs and butt were a bit smaller, I could probably size down to a 29.

 

At the smaller waist sizes, they're actually quite a fitted pair of jeans. About the skinniest cut I can really wear. Will try to get a fit pic or two later on.

Really lovely shade of indigo. And is that a beige/ecru weft? Ah, I can't wait for these suckers to arrive.

Kind of don't know where to head next in terms of my next pair.. Currently have the PBJ contest pair and they are starting to rip everywhere. I am a skinny build. My past pairs: PBJ 011s, FH310, FH3001, Skulls S010, Samurai S0505XXII. I prefer slim tapered

 

Stevenson Overall Company always seemed underappreciated to me, and the 727 La Jolla fit should meet your slim tapered needs as long as the waist works (they have a somewhat larger waist than most). Great denim that's got more texture than the more subtle repro types, but not the obvious loom chatter and major slub of some of the louder brands out there. Lots of excellent little design details, too, and some of the best construction I've seen outside of the brands where only one or two people make every pair.

 

If you do want louder, I also think Strike Gold is pretty awesome, and always wished I could fit into their slim fits.

Ooe's denim does seem to shrink more than most, especially on the initial wash. I sized up 2 compared to most jeans (33 instead of 31), and got a perfect fit on my pair. The total shrink in the waist after a hot wash and dry was around 2.25".

 

Others will be able to give you a better impression of how it stretches. My pair has not stretched out much (maybe it's at 31.5-32" in the waist), but I also sized the jeans so the maximum shrink would be a close fit rather than very tight around my waist.