Charlie Delta

If people are handing out, I wouldn't mind an invite either. Pm me if you happen to have one lying around.

Pretty please with a cherry on top!

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Doesn't work, try imageshack, I'm curious to see them!

Haven't 501 RAW STFs been conituously available since the 1880s?

You're absolutely right about that but I think you know what I meant with the "jumping on the raw bandwagon" thing. I mean, Levi's was very busy with their "engineered" line when the vintage type denim started getting more popular again.

post# 200 for me, yay!

edit: wow, 26 pages in a day and a half, the future is still going strong!

they cracked down on Evis(u) in the 90's, they cracked down on SugarCane last year and made them take off their backpocket stitching, and it was only a matter of time before they got to the other brands.

But the Evis thing was long ago, why didn't they continue back then to show that they meant bussiness? I think alot of these younger companies saw that they weren't that hard on Evis afterall and decided to see how far they could stretch it themselves.

If I'm not mistaken SC only had to take off the stitching, but could leave on the tag.

Levi's hasn't been sending out clear signals.

Still, you shouldn't touch what isn't yours but Levi's hasn't been very clear about it.

I was quite a bit surprised when I read a couple of pages up a comment from the guy who actually works at Levi's saying that he brought quite a couple of pairs or "repro jeans" in for "sampling".........

I'm with synthi on this particular point, when people first started "reproducing" Levi's jeans, they originally did this because they couldn't find what they wanted in what Levi's was offering at that moment. So they decided that they would then make these jeans for themselves and a select group of people. They tried to get to close as the originals as they possibly could, this included all possible details. (Or so the legend goes....) This idea caught on and more and more people where getting interested in these "reproductions of jeans from way back when" and more people started wanting them so more people started making them. (Hell, even Levi's jumped on the "raw" bandwagon with LVC)

People started to try to get closer and closer to actual original Levi's jeans and as up till now Levi's didn't do anything about these companies using Levis like arcuates, tabs, leather labels or pocket flashers (Airfrog, it is indeed a bit funny that none of them ever have seemed to ask Levi's if it was ok to do these kind of homages), they pushed it further and further, and the jeans started resembling Levi's jeans more and more. Evis obviously pushed it too far with their red "Evis" tab, but to this day they're still using it in Japan.

There wouldn't have been a need for these companies to start making these jeans if Levi's hadn't lowered their standards so terribly. In fact these "repro makers" showed a love for the whole jeans making proces that the people at Levi's could probably learn alot from. (I do realise that this situation has nothing to do with love)

In my opinion Levi's should've taken action alot earlier (maybe they tried but couldn't get anything done in Japan, I don't know), than it also would've been alot clearer for these "repro" companies where that line they couldn't cross was exactly. I mean, next thing we know Levi's might make a problem out of redline selvedge because red was originaly the colour of the selvedge on the fabric destined for Levi's. I feel that in a way a pocket tab has become just as standard as the colour of the selvedge line, it's just a part of this type of jeans!

But I still think Levi's is already pretty quick with this considering that these jeans only started coming into the states quite recently. Maybe that was their reason to take action now, because it seems that these japanese companies are starting to explore ground outside Japan. I was quite surprised when I saw a small article about SugarCane in some European style magazine, that had pictures of the SugarCane's with the arcuates clearly visible. I could imagine Levi's legal team, not being amused by that kind of press.

Anyway, I'm rambling again, and should go to bed, nothing I'm saying hasn't been said before so I'll stop. One final thing, after reading through these 25 pages it was good to read the original post from Kiya again, to get the facts straight!

I have mixed feelings about this whole situation and as I said before hope that Levi's is only after their trademarks and not the destruction of the parties involved.

I asked SuperHal how he felt about this difficult situation, here's what he said:

Begåvningsreserven

Dizon or Ozawa?

SuperHal

ozawa is a member of the universe. forget all you know, or think you do.

Begåvningsreserven

and dizon?

SuperHal

dizon is like made up or something.

Nuff said!

^You won't believe what Begs just posted in the "did we kill japanese denim" thread:

^^Begs you are GOLD!!! +rep

edit: oop, sorry cmf beat me to quoting that image, and about the rep, I'll have to spread some around before I can give you some again, sorry!

This thread is a Beast!

Long long read, I think everything has been said already and some of the things said really make sense.

Even if I think it's a damn shame that this happens there is no reason for Levis not to do this, it is their right to protect what is theirs (or what they claimed to be theirs years and years ago, for as far as I know it still isn't clear if Levi Strauss & Co was the first to use a backpocket arcuate) and they have the law on their side. However, what makes it feel wrong for me is the timing.

If, like Neil says this has serious consequences for some of these smaller japanese denim companies, because it would mean that they can basicly throw away a complete seasons production, that might very well be a deathblow for some of these companies.

In that case it is a lot more than Levis just making a fuss about their trademarks, it is simply them killing off competition! "Other people are making better jeans, let's go get 'm for it!" Ofcourse it doesn't help if those "other people" are basing their whole brand identity on these Levis trademarks. I believe it would have been a different case if any of these brands would have made a one-off piece that would have been so heavily inspired by Levis. Then it would have been more like a homage. But it's not, these brands are in fact making these jeans to be sold.

I think all of us on here can easily detect the irony in a leather patch with two pigs pulling apart a pair of jeans on it, but alot of people can't. And in the same way the average joe, won't see the difference between Levis or any of the "repro" brands, they'll just be pair of Levis jeans he hasn't seen before. Or say some thing like: "since when did levis change their backpocket design?" as someone posted before.

Now the average joe probably won't buy $200+ jeans, put still Levis doesn't want any possible confusion about their products and trademarks.

For us to argue wether the arcuates actually look too much alike isn't the point, if it looks too much alike for most people then that's it!

I think that at this moment it is most important for the parties involved to make it through this in one piece, and I'm sure that after that they'll surprise us again with well made and nicely detailed quality products.

A good example of that these brands don't need the arcuates etc. is Warehouse their Duckdigger line, they manage to make products that in a way look like repro's but are for as far as I know completely designed by them, there's no reason that the other companies wouldn't be able to do this. If they are still able to after this.

We know that this is not about the cuts or the fabrics used but only about some details so in the end the jeans will be the same, just with different details and they won't have this "Reproduction of Vintage Levis" feeling to them, but they'll be "Mighty fine Overalls!" all the same!

jin some sad and unfortunate news...

the denim world was turned upside down two days ago and i haven't been able to sleep since. i'm serious.

there's something going down that's going to severely change everything in Japanese Denim.

and not in a good way, let's just hope all parties involved recover as quickly as possible, in the meantime, thanks for the support.

Please tell us what's up, we're a denim board afterall!

Not at this moment no, sorry.

i think my girlfriend broke up with me

I would try to find out whether its for real or not asap to save yourself from a lot of possible pain.

Hang in there!

^ that was pretty good, even if I only observed, try the SuFu Google search function, it works pretty wel.

And here's you:

we at sufu are happy to provide a critisism high content posting board

enjoy your stay

This politeness is a high contrast to the thread mentioned above, it's one of the futures collective qualities I think.

Man, I was finally getting the hang of it!

Everyone needs to get off Kruger's dick.

^ Vagina!!!

No, Duck.

Dick.

Now come on Servo, we both know better! Be serious here for a minute!

If he's talking about lower legs getting muddy, they're probably ankle stacks.

^ also you'll need money, whereas for thrifting you won't! (well not much)

^ Vagina!!!

Great!

10 fucking characters

oh, and start thrifting!

Wait, it'll change, and it's not only the slogan, it's the whole way it looks, but selfrigde 's one is badly executed. Supreme is guilty of this aswell as we all know.

^ What, you missed his point?

As in selfridges shouldn't be ripping off Barbara Kruger!

Unless it is her work, it that case forget what I said.

ps. sorry for the massive pic

Just look around here for a while and the're plenty of treasures to be found, show some initiative! Why don't you try to tell me about a brand I haven't heard about before?

small questions here please

....but you did in the end????

Anyway, you'll get to know these people about alot better than you ever thought you would, there's nothing they haven't talked about yet peeing in the shower is only one example.