Paul T

55s are baggier; 66 more of a drainpipe

Seriously, Levi's European website has about as good info as the booklets. It specifies the same weight denim, too.

THey absolutely will not stretch out all the way. Stretching is minimal compared to shrinkage. If you're a 32 waist you need a 34, or if you want tight, then 33 (which they have in some styles, inc the '47) then you can wash cold if you want to minimise shrinkage.

I guess people claimed they were 12 because the weight was traditionally 12.5. WhHy they have LVC in both 12 and 13oz, I don't know, it's only a nominal difference. And of course the weight goes up when they shrink.

Those books, unfortunately, are like gold dust. Have they closed Selvage now? That would be the only place in NY I would've thought they had any, unless there's a flag shop store there. The info they have is fairly basic this year, not much more than on the website.

THE LVC info book. They do a limited edition version each year. It might just get distributed in Europe.

Levi's specs: '47 repros are 13oz. The '44 repros are 12oz. Original Levi's Cone fabric was 12.5 oz.

just realised that post was confusing - by lighter, I mean the 1890 jeans are lighter in weight (not colour!) - 9oz as opposed to 13oz.

The 1890 is more antifit, baggier backside, wider legs - note also it's in a lighter denim which makes it hang very differently. If it wears like my 1901 pair, they do age beautifully - there seems to be a lot of indigo in them, they stay dark, and you tend to get a great, high contrast fade. You're more likely to appreciate it if you wear your jeans baggy and low; the two are very different shapes.

BTW, note that some of the new LVC seem to be sized quite small, the finished pairs in particular. The new 1937 36 inch waist, in the Indigo Heart finish, shrink down to more like 32! I suspect the rigid pairs will just shrink the normal 2 inches or so.

Generally, I get the feeling there's a big move away from baggy, low-slung jeans, towards more 1947-style cuts. But maybe I'm saying that because that's where I'm at...

"rigid unwashed denim gives a lot, ie you should try to buy them as tight as humanly possible... lol if you can get them done up they are good." <p>

If you buy your unwashed denim tight, then wash them, your voice will go up an octave and you will never have children. Because shrinkage from washing will be much greater than stretching from wear. <p>

Washed LVC carry the pre-shrink size on the leather patch, btw, so the size on these should also be 2 up from your actual waist measurement. Altho they might stretch a bit, it's fairly marginal.

Levi's threatened Evis in the UK re the Red Tab in the early 90s. Evis's importers had to remove the red tabs. Even now, when they come in as grey imports, retailers are often forced to remove them. But Evis/Evisu retained the red tab in Japan, as they still do, because it wasn't trademarked there.

"Remember, the original aim of Evisu was Levis reproduction." True. Levi's forced Evis to change the name, and to drop the Red Tab from overseas versions (Levi's hadn't trademarked the red tab at the right time in Japan, so other manufacturers can use red tabs there).

Evis also did full-on Lee and Wrangler replicas, too - whereas the Levi's-style jeans had a painted Leiv's arcuate, the Lee replicas had a painted Lazy S arcuate...

I saw one of these months ago but lost their details so I didn't post them n the recent thread. They're in the UK.

Go to billybag.com, look at Ladies , then Executive Goods, click thru & you will find all the iPod caeses.

There are some excellent Croc ones there, which I will be putting on my birthday hint list...

Sadly, this is a decision I have to make too, as my 1950s Heuer Automatic (not a chrono) - a great, simple classic that I've owned for around 15 years, has finally worn out. For looks, I would go for another Heuer (not a Tag Heuer), but want a simple, Oyster-looking one, with a decent movement that won't wear out. I like the Monaco (altho not the Tag Heuer reissue), but it's too big for my skinny arms. Any recommendations, Sk8r, anyone? What's the movement like on the original Carreras?

I will be flogging some of my deadstock Valencia-made LVC and selvage Lees on the 'Bay to fund this, btw, so it ain't OT!

Edited by Paul T on Sep 12, 2005 at 10:37 AM

The '47 does look slimmer, but that's only a part of the story, as the pre 'anti-fit' is actually more of a carrot shape, tapered with a higher waist, so they look kinda skinny around the calf, but are comparatively baggy around the thigh. And they're sized differently too. i hugely prefer the 47 cut and don't believe the pre Antifit has much to commend it, but you should try the cut for yourself.

Go 'shop', then 'denim" then 'premium' and you'll find their selvage.

Sorry, I only noted them briefly; the denim looked good, the dry finish was nice and dark, I think it was a typical straight leg cut, with a lower rise than the 1947 501. The uniqlo were plainer, with no back pocket stitiching, and were half the price (for £50 or so, I'd track down the Lee Europe selvage). HEre's the TopMan website, should help:

http://www.topman.co.uk/promostores/topman/index.html?make_live=yes&promo=

I've seen their selvage range - the ones I remember were full selvage, though. They looked pretty good, dry dark denim, kind of a vintage straight leg cut, but pretty generic. I only saw their dry ones (this was back in the summer when they were being launched), and can't remember seeing any washes. personally, if I buy cheap selvage, mine would be from uniqlo, i prefer the more utilitarian look.

Two Horse patch is levi's red. But the denim looks different from the production models I've seen which had a much greener, slubbier fabric. This looks like a more standard, lighter denim, although it's different from the standard type 1 denim, too.

I'm interested in this. I've seen a few people say the Indigo, presumably from Cone, is not up to par. Yet some of the LVC denim looks terrific, in particular the Indigo Immortal, and its plain version, the 1901 501s, which have a terrific, very dark cast; the pair I have are developing a really good, high contrast. I assume the 1901 jeans used Cone denim, so are they using different dying methods?

Orange were a budget range. Can't remember the details, and I should look this up, but a lot of details like the stitching were simpler, and no rivets. Personally I really like the orange tab 607 jeans. Even fairly recent ones seemed to have nicer denim than contemporary 501s.

I think if that piano was a sample he would HAVE to credit it, or he would get his ass sued, because it's such a prominent part of the track. Other samples are credited on the album, tho of course everything on Endtroducing etc wasn't. Loads of people who started off using shitloads of samples have ended up generating 'new' ones for legal reasons.

Most of the samples he uses are credited. But I did read somewhere that it was sampled from the Jacobs Ladder movie, no idea if it's true.

I don't think it's a sample, cos it continues all the way thru the song.. I think it's a Beck-ish trick where Thom's playing piano and they've added hiss and compression.. the begining is Eric Satie-ish and the middle 8 tips its hat to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata ( i think...)

The denim for Levi's is mostly made by Cone in North Carolina. Levi's factories only sewed the denim together into jeans, they didn't make the denim itself.

olah.com is good for learning about the fabric.

Levis.com has good historic information, altho it it takes a bit of wandering around to find it.