paulduke04

Paul T, I did the same as ^^, as your inbox was full. hopefully i make the cut...

God it's fucking 3:06am and I can't sleep until I know for certain I get the password... I have to wake up in 4 hrs!!!

I felt stupid reading the Roy thread and thinking "what the hell, all these people know something I don't, fuck!".. now I know. total enlightenment. brilliant work guys.

Nice fits robbie and Festival.

random question... do the new batch of ROYs at SE run bigger than the jeans made when Roy was originally selling them? i thought i remembered the waist of my ROYs measured tag size and shrank from there, but the measurements for the ROYs at SE seem to shrink to tag size. with the original ROYs i recommended TTS or even size up.

Yeah I thought so too. I remember the OG's were TTS dry with 1in expected shrinkage and return to TTS after stretch. But the sizing on SE website has it shrink to TTS.

Password?! I actually tried a bunch (thinking it might be related to URCC) but obviously i got nothing. Anyways very excited about this.

Great job, PaulT. Appreciate all the pics and inside info.

I wasn't too keen on M&C after seeing their jeans at Barney's here in NYC. But my perception has totally changed after seeing this thread. That waistcoat and chinos are simply sublime.

Here's to Levi's not F-ing it up wih XX. *knock*on*wood*

Ralph Lauren Rugby F/W 2009

Navy 3 button blazer with a white crest

Size: S

Retail: $225

Selling for: $65 + shipping

Method: Paypal

Fabric: 100% Cotton (soft, almost fleece/terrycloth like)

Fit: Small or 38R (but because it's not a structured/tailored type of blazer, it can fit Small to Medium, even Large if you want that shrunken sportscoat look)

Worn 3 times - literally no defects/wears.

I'm selling this because it's only a little long on me, otherwise it fits me perfect on the shoulders and chest. I'm 5'7"-5'8" (172cm) and 145lbs (65kg) with 37" jacket size. I think it'll look great on someone with 36L to 38R build. Even up to 40R.

I'll have pictures up tomorrow with measurements. I searched ebay for it and someone is selling it new for $135. Mine's basically the same without tags.

BiG measurements on the numbernine pants pls?

WHOA is right. When i first read "a month" and saw the thumbnails, I agreed with bocaburgler that it "doesn't look right." However the pics look natural and as aleopold pointed out braille meant 1 month more than before, which explains everything. Still, whatever "digging" work braille_teeth does in them, it looks like some serious shit. nice work. +rep. slow fading denim is only a relative term, eh?

"little wear about a few hours but that's about it"? Seriously? How'd you get the fade/popped thread on the backpockets where the hidden rivets are, especially on the left pocket? How many hours are in "a few hours"? Keep it real buddy - be upfront about the actual wears.

well, i looked up those terminology on your denim glossary website - great site btw. but I guess none of u guys will confirm whether Mr Slaper's fabric is also KV 87211 or black seed.... clever clever

oh man, i thought the e-beef was deliciously funny. Anyways, the denim pics were gloriously droolworthy. and yes, denim bedding (someone mentioned it) would be awesome if it were black seed chambray fabric. One stupid question: these recent pics by Paul T and roy6, are they pics of fabric that's in Mr Slaper's possession? I couldn't understand some of the terminology by PaulT, let alone the insinuation that Mr Slaper's fabric (which may or may not be black seed denim) is "related" to PaulT's fabric. I simply got very confused.

The denim Roy uses doesn't shrink, as he said, "it reduces in size."

Touche, haha. I didn't realize that Roy's funny reaction to saying "shrink" in that SE video was because of Levi's monopoly on the Cone STF fabric until now.

@jaspar, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. There is or there isn't a risk to his expansion and price hike? I feel that the market will play itself out and appropriate pricing will take place eventually. What I am concerned about is ROY staying in business during that time. If sales are slow, how can such a small operation survive?

@bocaburgler, I actually made the same argument here on this thread prior to ROYxSE. And I agree with you that perhaps having a small number of employs would make the most business sense. But that seems clearly not Mr Slaper's intention, nor is it favored by people on this thread. As such, ROY seems to be take up a very small niche and that seems to be his business model. It's only him and Ande Whall I believe.

hypothetically what happens if some company involving 10 individuals were to make the same quality pair of denim in every way as ROY does himself, but the price of the jeans were to cost half as much because they were less labor intensive while no sacrifice in product was detected.

are the jeans themselves really worth the value we attach to 250 dollars, or are we more so paying for the idea of expert craftsmanship than for the product itself?

I think the jeans are wonderful, and would totally buy them, but as a consumer it's quit silly to buy a similar product for cheaper even though they aren't "hand made"

Did you mean to say "silly to [NOT] buy a similar product for cheaper"? I disagree. In today's more conscientious society, there is a growing consumer demographic that care not only about what they buy but from whom, how, and where. Rnrswitch and many others on this thread seem to reflect that movement - willing to support the production (and not only the product) at a certain level of acceptable cost. Also, we as consumers do not singularly dictate the worth/value of a good. We only play the part of demand and thus we'll see if the real value is indeed 275. Don't forget, if ROY catches fire, the increased demand can drive up prices higher.

Now, if only people who got the 1st gen ROY's post some evo pics... haven't seen any significant wears yet and it's already been 4-5 months.

Question for Paul T, doesn't unsanforized automatically equate to STF?

I think it's a great idea to market ROY in Japan (can't get more American than a pair of ROY's, no?) or even Europe. Not only would it open ROY to a bigger international market, but it could elevate brand recognition and value here in the US - by first cultivating a following in Japan or Europe. Current trend of perceived Japanese denim superiority, in products coming from Japan as well as Japanese taste and savviness in denim, can boost local confidence in ROY. It's almost equivalent to: "These are popular in Japan so it must be good stuff.." Perhaps finding one influential retailer in Japan that'll carry ROY might work.

On the issue of fabric: I think ROY should stick with Cone mills. They make great products. Perhaps change the cotton: black seed (pima)? organic? unbleached?

@Chambo, Hyundai is very close to catching up to Toyota and Honda here in the states. That is Lexus-like (not the car but the business/brand), considering where they were 10 years ago.

Vin, I disagree with the notion that this thread is dead. I too care for fits, progress, and evos. But I also care for the business of ROY. While there was a tad too much "hate" going on for the past 10 days or so, perhaps that's the natural progression of a thread. *shrug*

Very valid point by Potsnu. To me, the raw denim market has grown considerably during the last 5-10years, and consequently, consumers have quality options across the entire price range, from Gap/Uniqlo to 45RPM. So while some of us were extremely fortunate to enjoy ROY at the N&F/Nudie price point, ROY didn't belong there and has moved on to find its natural price point.

My growing concern now is how can ROY establish himself in the market. I hope Mr Slaper has a business model/plan or has talked it over with people with greater knowledge about the business (not just Kiya - too much bias). The denim market is saturated with great products. How can ROY sway consumers away from more established denim brands. I'm not arguing ROY's construction - it is among the best. But when someone is shopping for $300 jeans, I feel it's similar to buying an expensive saloon - most people will buy a BMW or Merc because their value/quality is already well established. Would people buy from a new car maker, even if every car magazine raved about its quality and performance? Lexus in the past and perhaps Hyundai now is trying to accomplish exactly that. For these car companies, price was used to lure the customers until their brand value caught up to the industry leaders.

Will word of mouth, sufu, and SE distribution be enough for ROY's success?

This thread is horrible. Whenever I check it I can't find anything about Roy related news, just page after page of nonsense. It oscillates between self ordained, hideously annoying original fan boys and pathetically uniformed rants about fashion economics.

This thread is really the opposite of what makes Roy's brand so cool, don't tarnish a good thing boys.

I think this thread IS part of what makes Roy's brand so cool. If I didn't give a damn, I wouldn't write about a silly price hike. People write and nit pick because they want to preserve what they each identified so clearly with ROY, the brand and the man. Also, I was always under the impression that sufu is in essence a massive denim fanboy orgy.

ps - "pathetically uninformed rants about fashion economics" is a low blow. Some of us, tho I am clearly not, are well-informed, thank you.

with no disrespect to SE (in fact, respect for picking up an awesome line!), this makes me a bit sad for roy. the snowball was just gathering momentum for him, and a price increase to $200/pair would have tempered the onslaught and put more money in his pocket (if my calculations are anywhere near accurate, this would have doubled his margin). of course, being on the shelves at SE is gonna expand his brand awareness, but the innumerable fresh pairs that showed up on sufu doorsteps would have certainly led to a groundswell of interest on its own.

I concur with Mr Ho. And now, I have this one nagging thought/question. It applies to the notion (which Mr. Kiya brought up) that Mr Slaper will work on newer cuts, shirts, etc, all the while enjoying himself more. How can Mr Slaper continue to manufacture everything himself, while meeting the demands of retail and increased product line? Sure, I understand that he can make multiple standard sizes (32x36, 33x36, etc or whatever,) but can that significantly increase efficiency as opposed to making one 30x38 pair and then moving on to making a 35x34 pair. I personally feel that I would have been happier if he had hired one or two people and still operated out of his Oakland shop. (no offense to SE, I'm not here to bash your business)

Perhaps, Mr Slaper underestimated the viral marketing power SUFU community and the power of internet retail. As well as the fragility of brand loyalty, as evidenced by many who feel ROY no longer stands out from other well-made jeans.

ok, i think i'm preaching to the wrong choir so i'll stop with my ideas.

let's just hope Roy stays around for a very long time, producing the best quality jeans - it's about time the nation that invented the damn thing produced the best.

i have a question to kiya: have you approached Roy or Roy approached you about distributing his jeans?

I too see why Roy's product is so great (btw i missed out on the deadline so i'm desperately waiting for the reopening). But my point was to make his hobby/passion/business more enjoyable, and thus more sustainable. Anyone that's in manufacturing, from small artisan craftman to giant corporation, knows that outsourcing and assembly line will improve not only the "bottom line" but also the product itself.

Hear me out - esp if Roy is reading this. I want to be clear that "outsourcing" is not some terrible new idea that happened recently. just as vertical and horizontal integration (this is econ/business gibberish but bear with me) has been around before Carnegie coined the term. First, Roy is not harvesting his own cotton, nor weaving or dying them. And thank God for that. He leaves that up to Cone Mills. By only concentrating on the denim jean construction, Roy has left other jean manufacturing aspects to 3rd parties - namely Cone. He trusts their quality standards, whether they be labeled black seed or white oak or whatever. Consequently, Roy can do his artist/craftsman thing without worrying about the denim itself. Another example: take a swordsmith from Japan. I have no evidence but I doubt that he mined his own iron. I'm sure he bought the iron from someone he trusted. The whole idea rests on trusting the other party to fullfil the expectations. Similarly i think Roy can train someone and in time, can trust that person to cut patterns and stamp rivets to Roy's standards. And Roy can concentrate more on the jean construction and design itself - while not having to work like a dog. so technically it's more like assembly line than outsourcing but the idea is the same.

anyways, that's just my late night 2 cents.

this is my first sufu post and i'm excited that Roy has come out of his hiding. despite his firm belief that he can make all the garments himself, i don't think he can look to expand his business without some help. perhaps hire a couple of apprentices - people with some experience/skills that share his passion for denim - that can learn from him and incorporate some sort of assembly line manufacturing process.

i am not hatin on his passion to handle all the manufacturing process. i actually appreciate that about him. but realistically, for longevity sake, geting some help will make his life easier and he won't burn out. keep the number fixed - 10 jeans per day or whatever - to maintain quality control.

let's do some simple math: if he charges $150 per jean and it costs him $120 to make (materials, rent, utilities, salary, etc) - he can turn a net profit of $60k per year on just a 10 jeans/day rate for 200 days out of 365.

also if he gets some help, he can take time out to make other things - ducks! shirts, jackets. and those things can help make his work more challenging and rewarding. perhaps even different cuts of jeans. i just don't think, with his skills, he should spend 2 hrs out of 8 hr workday, cutting patterns and stamping rivets when he can hire people to do that.