Paul T

Hmm, this is at least the second time they've done this!

The Malta-made 101 reissues have zippers... but aren't Sanforized. They are the ones which were sold with the 'Dry' tags.

Funnily enough, over time, the original Sanforzied ones used to shrink too, it just seems to take longer. Checking my old Sanforized and non-Sanforized 32-32 pairs, they all seem to end up at around the same size.

Uniqlo.

sorry, yes, my post was unclear. Only early Euro reissues are sanforized. All Edwin-made reissues, where the originals were sanforized, ARE sanforized.

Quick thoughts: Japanese reissues will have Japanese tags, Euro reissues have country of origin tags, too. Only the early Euro reissues are sanforized (alho they do shrink btw) and have the back pocket linings. Then there's all the normal clues, just how the denim looks and has aged; old lees, pre 60s, often have a greeny colour cast which reisses don't have. It's hard to replicate the look of old jeans which have never been washed in modern detergents.

I think yours look authentic, in that the reissues with the old-style tags had the -double- selvage. Do they have the pocket linings etc? All the same, I;m not certain, becuase the 1940s Lees I've seen actually had double selvage - the single selvage seems to come in early 50s, while the selvage is gone by 1958 (my estimate from looking at Lee ad archive shots). TO confuse matters, old Lees, from the ones I've seen (only maybe 20 pre-60s pairs in the flesh) do seem to vary in detail a lot - particularly the denim, maybe they vary more accroding to how they're washed.

I don't know about vintage prices, but I'm told they'll be in the same ballpark as Levi's equivalents of similar vintage...

"how do vintage lee riders compare in quality to levis LVC?"

Mmm, hard to compare a vintage with a new item. Old Lee, like old Levi's, jeans are very variable, the fits change over the years, but they're just as worthy of investigaion.

Lee Europe's reissues used to be terrific - really good value, and great sanforized denim. They've cheapened the range slightly (they were made in Eire, then Malta, and now Poland), the denim is still good but now it's non-sanforized, and some of the detailing isn't as nice, but they're still good value for money, significantly cheaper than LVC. Their standard cut is reasonably close to 47 Levi's... I would always dry clean mine for the first six months, and they fade absolutely beautifully.

I don't own any of the Edwin-made Lee reissues, but they're very, very well made with beautiful, left-hand twill, sanforized selvage denim which comes from Nisshinbo.

Cone did lose a lot of their old staff with the old looms - the new looms required fewer operators. I've been told that when Cone reintroduced selvage they had to entice staff out of retirement to operate them.

FWIW, as COne had a lot of looms at one time, I don't see why some of them couldn't have ended up in Japan. But the story started by Evis that they'd bought them is, I believe, total rubbish.

lee Cooper were always a different company, but I believe they were bought by VF corporation (who own Lee and Wrangler) a few years ago. Riders is the name that Lee called their 'Cowboy jeans' from the 1940s...

"this buckle is used to prevent law suits."

please explain!

I guess you don't mean lawsuits in case of distress if your pants fall down?

Sometimes you get more fluff when the denim isn't singed.

Let me add to that statement...

I had a faxed 'interview' with the man who first made the claim to have bought "old Levi's looms". He told me exactly that in a faxed statement. THen I faxed him and asked, "well, are you saying that you bought some of Cone's old looms, because of course Levi's never owned any'. His reply was vague, but essentially he said he had bought "american-style vintage looms'. Of course, even this was not true, as the jeans manufacturer in question bought its denim in from another company in Osaka. This, to me, indicated that the claim about buying old Cone looms was initially a nice piece of spin, to embellish what was essentially true, that Japan, rather than the US, had become the true home of high quality selvage denim.

Geowu, I would love to see definitive accounts of whether Cone sold looms to Japan. But given the number of Toyoda looms in circulation in Japan (and even Europe and the US), I can't see why the Japanese would want to buy them. I'm sure there will be some US looms there, but I don't believe they were the ones used for volume production. People I know who went to Kurabo in the late '80s tell me they didn't see any evidence of American, as opposed to Japanese, looms...

here's the real deal. THe Gommini is Tod;s definitive moccasin. They look better in the flesh - softer, more casual. Personally I prefer suede, but it's totally impractical, apart from a quick jaunt in the coupé, a cross-channel dash in the yacht, or reclining in club class...

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod17260118&parentId=cat7420734&masterId=cat5100733&index=3&cmCat=

Tod's are great. I have a lovely tan pair, and they have some stunning Ferrari ones that are sadly beyond my means. HOWEVER, loads of people seem to be doing TOd's copies now, and Banana Republic have an acceptable moccasin in very soft tan suede for $60 that is pretty well made, I have a pair for loafing around the house, and will buy another when I'm back in the US...

haha! This is like on of those 'thru the keyhole' questions! They're a 1930s repro. I would think, but I can't see a selvage line, which would be blue on the 201, and doesn't normally fade. HEnce i would guess it's more likely to be a 501 with faded red line... but I didn't look too hard cos it made my eyes hurt... if you can see rivets on the back pockets then the jeans are a circa 1933 reissue, otherwise they're a 1937 reissue.

I was given one of those nice booklets with the full range but I, er, lost it. There is one nicely-aged one-pocket pair, in the style of the Indigo Immortal, I think they're a 1886 repro, which is also available in rigid. I haven't seen a sample, though.

I'm pretty certain there is a 1947 in the new range. There's a GI theme to many of the items. The range looked pretty good - but not as many must-haves as I remember, for instance, in the 2003 range. There's a nice-looking 1890s one-pocket 501, in rigid and aged finishes.

There IS a Levi's Premium 501 with selvage, isn't there? I'm in the UK, where they're not distributed, but I saw a selvage pair in the Miami store in May. Levi's premium is the one with the cowboys on the (leather) patch, right? I thought they looked pretty good, altho at around that price I'd rather go for the LVC.

Cinch is at 5 Newburgh St, off Carnaby St, tel 020 7287 4941. Actually, I was in last week and they didn't have much in stock (waiting for new range) so Selfridges might be worth a try. Shame, Cinch used to have great sales...

THey look absoluelty genuine. All the shop tags are correct, as is the leather-look 2-horse patch, and the'oilcloth' guarantee label. I've not seen any fakes that have all these features. They look to be pretty much retail price, though, so you could always buiy a pair from Cinch and get to try them on first...

Teddy Boy, are you CERTAIN they're Sanforized? I was picking up a pair for someone here, and I guess we both want to be certain re sizing...

This is better than anything LS&Co have in their archives. Wouldn't surprise me if they bid. Interesting that it's the 213, budget version. I'm sure it's genuine, but at the same time I would like to see better pix for my $5000!

The 501 was recently redesigned, lower rise, slightly different back pocket positioning, straighter leg, and a different arcuate shape (the new ones have a steeper arcuate). Sounds to me like one of your pairs is pre-redesign, the other post re-design.

This is really interesting and you can define it a lot of ways. But there is a plausible explanation that comes from some ad research I looked at once that covered groups of people who were called, I think, 'inner directed' and 'outer directed.' Inner-focused means people who do/buy things because THEY like them. And outer-focused means people who do things because other people like them. The second group are into display; the first group aren't. I think if you're into, say, jeans in a big way that's ultimately got to be for yourself, because there aren't that many people out there who 'get' it.

there's some interesting talk about authenticity; I guess I'm in search of simplicity. Just a simple pair of jeans that feel right. And rightness means fabric that has a certain texture, a certain cut....

The only problem in life is that simplicity seems to cost a lot more. You try and buy, say, a bag made of plain, decent hide. It always costs loads more than fancy ones. But good for people who make these things, who are doing something different, doing it well. Try buying a simple, basic camera - it costs 10 times more than autofocus plastic things. Likewise phones, hi fi, shoes, you name it...

Thanks. A contact for their press or PR would be much appreciated...