Jim Cissell

Any insight who makes an extremely accurate 1947 501 jean?

Jim

Jim Cissell

alitarbegshe - you said it very well...

In this case - five-pocket jeans - heritage is indeed important.

I also agree that it's a bit sad that the LVC line is better than their mainstream. Everything is about cheap now, and it's gotten everyone chasing the bottom, as far as prices go. Maybe with all of this 'vintage' competition going on it will make the big three look hard at their offerings and consider bringing quality back to the masses.

I don't know, it's just jeans, but they are a huge part of our culture - Western culture actually - so why not do it right, at least with your core, heritage models.

BTW, the off-the-self Wranglers are still well made. I've noticed the commonly available Levi's 501s are kinda cheap looking now, and seem thin & flimsy as well. The Wranglers are still made from a robust denim and weather quite nicely in comparison. The only Levi's I'll buy now are the '47 501 model. It's just a shame they have to cost so much - certainly not a nod to your democracy statement!

Jim

Jim Cissell

Yes, progression is always good, but authenticity can be more important.

Levi's, Lee and Wrangler have certainly paid their dues, and yes they were the first.

For a not-so-unrelated-example, much of fine art, in retrospect, is 'easy to do'; but that person who executed a particular piece was the first one to attempt that radical or innovative idea and bring it to life. Before that, it simply wasn't done or even thought of.

In the case of authentic denim, it is almost the same situation. Yes, competition keeps everyone honest and innovative, but it's still a copy when folks knock-off a proven design.

I do wish these 'big three' makers would establish a division that indeed reissues their tried-and-true, iconic patterns (as the LVC line has fitfully attempted) and have a reliable, quality-minded and readily available supply of these pieces out there so that these knock-offs would truly become irrelevant.

Again, I'm all for innovation, but why wear a copy when the 'real' thing is there - or could be made available?

Jim

Jim Cissell

I was curious if anyone else felt like me - where the only jeans really worth wearing were the authentic, originals lile Levi's, Lee and Wrangler? It just seems like the others are simply copies, and for some reason, that bugs me.

I know many of these knock-offs are actually extremely well made, excellent pieces in themselves and often more 'authentic' then the master brands in many ways, but they're still 'fakes'...

Any thoughts?

Jim

Jim Cissell

I have to agree with you on their quality issues (excepting their boutique LVC line). Maybe over the years they just got too big for their britches. I've felt for some time now, especially given their enormous debt load (a $billion+?!) that they should've just regrouped, bitten the bullet and made themselves much, MUCH, smaller and just concentrate on their core jeans line. The stuff that made them famous.

They have too many styles in my opinion - trying to be everything to everyone; too many eggs in too many baskets, and they've gotten themselves in an un-winable financial situation, I fear. I realize they're a multi-billion company, and you can't just 'up and get small', but, on the other hand, why not? Why not get out of all the unsustainable, expanded market stuff, sell off what brands they can, pay their debts, and become a high-end, quality-minded organization that honors both their place in history, and solid reputation?

I hated it when they sold their Valencia Street factory building. That obviously could've been one of their landmark treasures. They could have revamped and retained this wonderfully located building for producing their 501 and entire LVC-line, only. That would make that line so much more special. I know it was in some disrepair, but scaling back to that core-based company I mentioned would have allowed more capital to pay for the proper restoration of that iconic facility.

I don't know - they're certainly caught-up in the big-business-race and can't turn back, but on the other hand, it seems so simple...

Jim

Jim Cissell

Does anyone think the current crop of Levi's 501 back pockets are simply too low? They just look sorta goofy and droopy now...

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else feel the same way?

Jim

Jim Cissell

Does It bother anyone else that the inseam on the current 501s has evolved back to a single-line of stiching, rather than the substantial lap-felled of the last generation?

I realize the stand-by classic, 1947 model was a single-line, but once the felled seam was later introduced, I rather liked its look and conveyed durability. In fact, jeans seem to 'need' that type of seam to carry on the look of total rugged construction.

Just wondering if anyone else misses that particular detail?

Jim

Jim Cissell

Something I keep forgetting to mention about the 13MWZs is the fact the riveted back pockets located up near the yoke, are very reminescent of the old Levi's 201 model, which has a very similar configuration. That was what actually got me interested in the Wrnaglers.

Shortly after the reissue 201s were first offered, I tried to get a pair because I liked that look - the rear pockets riveted, and close to that yoke. But apparently, by the time I was aware of these jeans it was near impossible to obtain a pair. One day it occured to me the 13MWZs were very similar to that design (and best of all, not as baggy!) and that began my love affair with the Wranglers.

Like I stated earlier, their ready availability, low cost, quality construction and classic fit only make them a huge plus.

I tell ya, they are the unsung hereos of the new denim world...

Jim

Jim Cissell

Yup - I find myself prefering the 13MWZ more and more over the 501s - I hate to admit that, as I'm a headcore Levi's 501 fan, but these newer Levi's don't seem to be made as well as they used to, and the lighterweight denim bugs me. Don't get me wrong - my all-time favs are the 1947 models, but I'm getting tired of having to jump through hoops to get a pair anymore, pay out the rear for them if I find them, and worry about if they're sized properly or not...!

The Wranglers just seem to fit better, and I like the heavyweight denim. And like I've said before, I can't get enough of the rear pocket rivets... and they're easily sourced!!

Jim

Jim Cissell

I know what you mean by the tags (although I keep mine because of the authenticity issues) but ya' gotta love those pocket rivets!

Jim

Jim Cissell

damnian - I hear you! I've seen that look (not as much as you) and it does give Wrangler a bad name. At the same time I realize that those particular jeans are very much a part of that sub-culture, and that's just the way it is. I'd image they'd say the same thing about the hiphop styling. Think how goofy 501s used to look way-way-back-when (say, the 20s?) on authentic, hardcore, blue-collar workers. 'Probably pretty silly, really. The styling of how to wear jeans really evolved back in the late 50s and were refined ever since on thru the late 60s.

Wranglers are like any other clothing - its really all in how you wear them. My take is to size them and wear them as if they're 501s or something - then they look good. When the 13MWZs are worn tight with cowboy boots they do come off kinda creep... but I still say worn 'right', they look pretty good...

Jim

Jim Cissell

I'm a big fan of the 13MWZs!

They've always struck me as the unknown bargain, and they are just so cool. The back-pocket rivets are the best feature - very retro.

They are heavy weight and wear very well, and yes, the wear patterns aren't as distinctive as found on some other brands, but they still have their own exceptional character.

And as you stated, the rise isn't really that high either - just a false perception, I'd say...

Jim

Jim Cissell

I seem to consistently remain in just one real phase - the classic one.

For me, I only wear the truly authentic jeans - either Levi's 501, or Wrangler 13MWZ. These are the real deal (especially the 501s) and everthing strikes me as being a mere knock-off. Color me weird, but I like AUTHENTIC.

I prefer the 1947 501 reissues, as the cut is excellent, but any modern 501 will do in a pinch. I also love the Wrangler as it offers the very cool, rear-pocket rivets. Retro, to say the least.

Another nifty plus on both of these particular jeans is the fact they were introduced at the same time - 1947. Granted, Levi's goes way back, but Wrangler hasn't done half-bad, itself.

As to the other classic standby - Lee - I find I don't like wearing them. The fit is funky, and I don't like the shape of those rear pockets.

Anyway, that's my take on the jeans-scene... cool thread, BTW.

Jim

Jim Cissell

Do you think I should just give up on buying the (dry) 1947 501s this year? I've contacted all of the Levi's Stores a number of times, checked their site more than I'd admit, and called their 800-line so often they know my name now, and it sounds like the size I'm looking for (pre-washed 32W x 36L) just ain't gonna happen...

The guy that sounds like he knows the most about them (at the Levi's Store in SanFran) said they have yet to receive that inseam length in that waist size; and that was also the case as last year's '47 deadstock selection.

Needless to say I'm disappointed in the LVC line lately - it seems they've just about given-up on it, or something.

I don't want to order overseas due to the silly shipping fees, and it just seems frustrating I can't get such an iconic garment in MY OWN COUNTRY!

Anyway, rats!! Does anyone know of any good news about these jeans?

Jim

Jim Cissell

Wrangler 13MWZ jeans!

They have THE most impressive selection of sizes available. Well made, good priced jeans, too.

Jim

Jim Cissell

sneakeraddict - I've always found the 13MWZ to fit (in the legs) pretty much like the 501s. Overall, the 13MWZs do appear slimmer, but when I wear them, they fit almost exactly like the 501s, except the rise is a tad higher than the Levi's, and I don't seem bothered by wanting to hike my jeans up every now and then.

Wrangler does produce a slim-fit 13MWZ, and that could have been the case here, or maybe you got an oddball or something...

JIm

Jim Cissell

It's good to hear someone else appreciating the classic Wrangler jeans. These really are some cool pants, and their history and design is often overlooked.

Don't you love the fact the 13MWZ model has retained the back-pocket rivets?!

Jim

Jim Cissell

I noticed the worn-in LVC-1947 'stf' jeans too. I thought they were mislabeled so I called the 800 number and they confirmed their 'deadstock' (as they call it on their current site) is indeed a pre-worn finish. I then called three Levi's stores - the San Fran one, the Chicago, and the new DC location, and they have the true deadstocks (not prewashed) but the lengths in my waist size (34 before washing) don't offer the 36'' inseam - only 34''. They also didn't seem hopeful it will be offered, either...

This was the same situation I had with the LVC 1947 model last year - no 36'' length.

Does anyone have the REAL scoop on both availability and longer sizes?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Cissell

You know how it seems Levi's slightly alters their 501 fit every 10 years or so? Well I was wondering when they eventually tweaked their 1947 model?

Thanks for any insight,

Jim

Jim Cissell

Yes - I called the San Fran store as well but they stated the 36'' inseam doesn't seem to be in the cards again this year - at least in the true deadstock offering. They haven't had the longer length delivered so far at all, this season, and I remember the same thing was going on all last year, too - 34'' was the longest.

Oh well, maybe that will change as the season rolls along...

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Cissell

Man, what's with the LVC line again? I see they offer a couple versions of the 1947 model, but even though one is listed as 'deadstock', it is anything but!

I called the Levi's toll-free line to get more specifics, and it appears the deadstock is a pre-distressed jean, but still considered shrink-to-fit. Are they mixed-up on their description, or did they abrade the dry jeans without a post-washing?

The other negative was the inseam lengths are limited again! I wasn't able to get a 36'' length (which I'll need due to the shrink-to-fit situation). The lady said 34'' was the longest they made this year. I even contacted the Levi's store in San Fran and they basixcally said the same thing about the lengths. Gads!

Anyway, I was hoping someone had some more info concerning the 1947s. I really want the true 'deadstock' as I hate the pre-worn-in finishes they seem to lean on any more...

Jim

Jim Cissell

Yes - that shrinkage issue is exactly one of the concerns I was worried about. I'm interested in loading-up on a few pairs of the LVC 47s, but am very wary since learning about last season's smaller fit problems, and now this one's lack of correct inseam shrinkage.

Hopefully someone (Paul T?!) will offer the inside scoop on this latest production run...

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Cissell

I'm surprised no one has pointed out how Steve Jobs has helped in making blue jeans even more acceptable in business wear. As one of the most successful business men in the world - and a man who only wears jeans, rather than a suit - he certainly has made people take notice in his thumbing-of-the-nose at the traditional corporate uniform!

I guess what I'm saying is I think it's very cool that this icon of business is a jeans-wearin' foo'!!! Good for him, and I love it.

Jim

Jim Cissell

I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to purchase (and shrink!) the latest LVC 1947 jeans? I remember from Paul T earlier, that last season's 1947 model was not correctly sized as labeled, and was actually smaller than it should've been, after washing.

I wanted to order a few pairs of this season's, but I also wanted to verify the fitting beforehand, of course...

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Cissell

Any word yet when the new stock of dry LVC-1947s will hit?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Cissell