wooster

i think they're legit. margaret howell is a uk designer, and she did do a collaboration with edwin. but they probably aren't selvedge, and they're also probably washed.

that model, yeah. just re-measured. from the crotch seam to the top of the waistband in front i get a bit under 11.5, in back i get 15 (for comparison, my rescues--loose fitting, size 32--measure a little over 11 in front and about 14 in back). if i measure from the bottom of the waistband to the crotch seam i do get 10, so maybe that's what going on. i don't know what's traditional in terms of measuring front rise, maybe you don't include the waistband.

email the ironworks uk guy. he was very helpful answering questions when i bought these.

the rise is relatively classic: mine measure out at aroun 11.5 in the front, the same or at most a 1/2" shorter than the repro cuts i have. the rear fits great, neither baggy nor tight. straight legs, but a bit on the wide side (similar to the APC rescue). actually these are the best fitting jeans i have, can't make up my mind if it's the cut, or a combination of the cut and the heavy denim.

sfiction, when i got my 21oz selvedge (not all that long ago) the recommendation was to expect a good inch of shrinkage in the waist for some reason, but nothing significant anywhere else. being a 34 actual jeans waist i ordered a 36, and after a soak it did, in fact, measure out to around a 34. but i now see this isn't noted on the web site anymore, and i think ironheart has done some work to eliminate that shrinkage (they seem to make specific mention of it on the japanese web site). so given the change i'm not sure people here who own ironhearts are going to have experience that is relevant for you.

so i'd say measure the back waistband of jeans that fit you well, double it, and go with the sizing chart on the website. personally, i would not size down aggressively. this is a very thick denim, and while they'll stretch over time, it will take a very long time.

on that customer service question, i ordered from iron heart a while back, and it was great service. email question were answered fast, he shipped like 10 minutes after i placed my order, and the guy even emailed me later in the week to see if i'd gotten the jeans and was happy. so no worries there.

maybe what's going on is that hist. pres. is moving into a distributor role. before, they were the end seller, so they just charged a standard markup and were happy. but now they're trying to sell to third parties who will act as the primary retailer. so h.p. now needs to make their wholesale markup and then the end seller has to make it's retail markup. because hist. pres. can't be underselling anyone on their own web site, they now have to price at the new much higher suggested retail.

this is what happened with nudie. street $ for RRDS was at or a little above $200, then a U.S. distributor took control and all of sudden it's $275.

i don't know, but i find the way different jeans go about stretching to be really inconsistent. I guess this make sense: the denim is different, and is going to have different properties. everyone knows about APC and its crazy stretching, but i've got some italian denim that hardly stretched at all, some 21 oz denim that isn't doing much stretching, and some sized-down edwins where the waist stops at 34, and will not go further. My observation with the '47 canes is that after a hardwash they can come in about 1/2" under-size, but you get that back fast, like in a couple of hours. Then the next inch comes gradually, and, I thought, kind of slowly over the next 10 days. I'm kind of thinking that there isn't going to be too much more stretching. So, what i'm saying by offering this is that if you do size-down, looks like it might take 10 days to get 'em where you want 'em, and then maybe after that stretching might be real slow and relatively minor.

anyhow, takes all the fun out of it to just say all denim stretches. what are we supposed to talk about then?

madgrad: so, yes, in my experience the 29 waist will stretch to a 30 in ten days. but TB is actually testing this out right now, so i'd wait for his confirmation. but you know, even sized down, these things will have a really, really different kind of fit then what you've got now and what it seems like you had before (sevens, etc.). are you looking for a repro, or something more modern?

hey, TB, if you get a chance post the waist measurement of your new one-wash's and how it stretches over time. as far as i know, you're the first person posting who has gotten the one-wash, and one of the few people actively working on a sized-down pair of the '47s. I think others would find the info valuable.

for what it's worth, my true-to-size '47s, which were bought no-wash but have been hardwashed 2x and low-dried once (to get max. shrinkage) have stretched in the waist from 34" to 35" after maybe only 10 or so wears.

dividing the issue into being skinny or working out is ignorant. tall, skinny is always tall and skinny. unless madgrad starts shooting steroids into his butt (which doesn't look to be his thing) maybe he could put on 15 pounds. so, yeah, there he is at 6-3 and 165 lbs. real musclehead. please.

if you're comfortable with how you look, there you are. great. madgrad looks fine in the after posts, but he didn't look bad in the before posts either. having made the original "weights" suggestion, i was just thinking maybe, just possibly, a guy who posts a pic of himself on sf saying make me over might have some image issues that go beyond what he's wearing. clearly that wasn't the case, and he got some good advice. but turning the thread into an advertisement for male anorexia or whatever kind of sucks.

those look great. and they fit you really well.

<...I own several AA t-shirts in medium and small. The small is long enough to cover my belt normally...>

even with the mics and cure? that's interesting: i'm shorter than you, wear an AA large, and the T's hit at my beltline with higher-waisted jeans. but i have kind of a long torso.

out of curiousity, are you at UofMD? i went to h.s. in suburban MD (rockville), know some people who went to UMd. college park is kind of a style desert--you definitely are on the bleeding edge here. what kind of reaction are you getting to the cures/mic?

http://oneoffclothing.com/ has good prices

but madgrad is at best an AA medium, maybe even a small, and he's 6-3. AA shrinks a lot: the only thing that aint going to be exposing his belly button are the long-cut thermals. but then again, an exposed midriff might work just fine with the look that's being concocted for him here...

hey, TB, from what you say about your nudies, it sounds like a actual 33 jeans waist fits a bit loose on you. i took a look at your greycasts (nice): given how hard you wear them, yes, i really think a 32 one-wash is what you're looking for. i think they had them in stock at history preservation.

i'm pretty sure that the one-wash canes are the no-wash canes after a factory warm soak and a hot air dry. so you won't have to soak them or hardwash them or anything. it's all been done for you, and probably with less indigo loss then if you did it yourself.

i think the 32 one-wash measures out at a 31.5 waist to start (going by hinoya), and might feel kind of tight, but from my experience of hardwash x low dry, it will quickly (like in an hour) loosen up in the body and go to tag size at the waist. since you're probably only looking for another 1/2" in the waist for a perfect fit, i think you'll probably have it after the first day of wearing them. worst comes to worst, you could always give them a quick soak and wear them wet or pull on the waist to get it where you want it to be.

Bilzerian is high-concept designer (yohji, rick owen, etc). interesting, but super expensive. great selection of shoes. you have to get buzzed in the door, and the shop is small. the staff is friendly, but it's not really a great browsing place unless you have a few $K to drop.

i think Stel's on upper newbury is closest to an ny boutique concept, in that what they stock reflects their personal taste. it's a highly edited, very cohesive collection: you could get one of everything they had and you'd have a great wardrobe. but i think it's targeted more mid-20's early 30's in age. but they are really helpful people, and i think if you were to stop by and tell them what you were after, they'd be the best people to help you find it in boston.

Louis sort of does men's streetwear on their 3rd floor. They pick a couple of newish brands, really promote them for a few years, then move on. right now i think they are doing travota and nice collective.

i wonder about barney's. i'm afraid they'll tone things down for boston, and not be all that interesting. hopefully not.

not that you look bad, but 6'3" and 150lbs is really thin. are you happy with that? a decent weights routine and a high-protein diet would add another 15lbs (minimum) after a year. it would make it a lot easier to find stuff that fits well, and i think do more for your look than clothing will.

on this sizing thing, i'll strongly second rnrswitch's opinion. true to size (which i did on 47 canes) gives you what is probably an authentic fit, but it'll seem baggy in the rear if you're used to a more modern fit (like nudies or APC standards). rnrswitch posted pics in the denim pic thread--minus the wear, that's also how they fit me. and you have to hardwash them before wearing, else the rear will seem huge.

can't see what you're going to find out from trying them on totally raw, except that they'll be too big. i really don't get this measure your waist with a tape thing. my suggestion would be to take a pair of your nudies that is fitting well, and measure the back waist. if you get 17" then the 34 canes will fit ('cause that's what my size 34 canes measure). if you come up with less than 17, then you should definitely get the 33's.

John, that's frustrating. sorry to hear it. you probably don't want to screw with them if you plan to sell based on other characteristics of the jeans, but you might be able to pull an extra inch out of the waist by pulling on it after soaking (or wearing while damp). but i'm sure i'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

i've no experience with the sugar millet denim, but i'll repeat that the give is definitely there for the '47s. while they were hang drying after the first hard wash the waist measured around 33.5 (true to the measurements given on various japanese sites) and i lightly tugged on the waist and got a 1/2 inch with little pressure. i could have gotten another inch without torturing the denim if i'd wanted.

i actually ended up hardwashing these again and used the dryer under the low heat setting (i know i'm really messing with these). initially i thought, hey, another big round of shrinking, as they were almost a tight fit when i put them on. but, no, after a couple of hours they stretched back to pretty much were they were after the first hard wash (they did survive the dryer pretty well; didn't go all shapeless and mushy as some denim will). so i still think sizing down on the '47s is a safe bet.

i think history preservation's push on not sizing down is prob. based on their primary customer who is a WWII buff, an older guy, maybe carrying a few extra pounds (and a little in denial about their true waist size), and used to a very relaxed fitting jean, and who is going to throw these in the dryer after each wash. after a run through the dryer, going one size down would feel super tight (especially if your understating your true waist to begin with).

edge- i bought unwashed. i wanted to buy washed to check out the fit but they didn't have it in my size, so i just decided to take the risk and shrink them myself.

tried them on raw, they were huge. can't see anyone wearing them that way unless they sized down so much that they would no way fit after a wash.

soaked them in the washing machine overnight (12 hrs) in cold, inside out, hang dry, maybe lost an inch in the waist, and the legs went to a measured 34". tried wearing them a day like that, but they still felt way too big in the body, with a really poor fit in the rear.

figured i'd never wear them that way so i gave them a regular wash (again inside out) in what i guess would be warm water (hot on my machine, but felt warm to the touch). i stopped the cycle mid way and let them soak for a couple of hours until the water cooled down, so i would call it a hard wash. dried them hanging over a radiator. it was painful to watch the blue water drain out, but they seem to be just as deep a blue after as before (though i obviously can't do a side-by-side).

lost maybe another 1/2" in the waist and in the legs. so unstretched the inseam (by a tape measure) is 33-1/2, and i am sure will stretch out a 1/2" with normal wear by the end of the day. if you pulled on the legs while wet i bet you could easily get the inseam to 34-1/2. for me, 33-1/2 puts the hem on the ground with no shoes, and somewhat bunched up with vans on. i'd turn it up a bit to wear it.

the body and the rear shrank a lot on the hard wash. it definitely is not tight, but the fit is much improved, which is sort of surprising (but good) given how little additional shrinkage happened in the waist and inseam.

i got the 34" waist, going with the "buy canes to true waist size" school of thought (normally get a 33 or 32 in jeans), and because the history preservation people seemed so nervous about sizing down. but if i was going to do it again i really would size down to a 33, i'd say there's about zero risk of their being too tight after a bit of wear, and the ones i got are probably going to feel pretty loose after a week. also, if buying unwashed, sizing down would probably improve the fit after a cold soak (letting one avoid an immediate hard wash).

hope this is of some use.

on the '47 inseam question, my canes on a 12 hour cold soak went to a 34" (kind of crinkled up, so probably it's actually longer) inseam. and if i wanted to stretch the legs a bit, i bet i could get another inch no problem. i'm also 6-2, and that's enough for 1" cuffs for me. my legs are a bit on the short side maybe, but i'd be surprised if you found the canes too short (unless big cuffs are a must for you).

you could also order 1-wash instead, and just try them on and see. return them if they don't work. --you'd be out about $20 at worst.

i work in manufacturing (though not clothing). doing u.s. made high volume is impossible today if you want to be price competitive. it is just incredibly cheaper to source stuff overseas, and, ironically, almost always the quality is what you specify. want to spend an extra penny, you get high quality, want to spend a penny less and you can specify mediocre quality. unhappy with the quality? source somewhere else on the next buy.

aa talks about vertical integration keeping their cost of goods down, but i don't see how that could really do all that much. so yes, basically if they pay their workers more, they're going to have to charge more for the product. that said, i suspect they make a very, very healthy margin on their retail sales. probably their wholesale costs more accurately reflect the profit margin they have to make to remain in business. i suspect the extra money they are pulling down by being successful in retail is what is fueling their expansion.

personally i own a lot of aa, i love the cotton they use, and the fit is ok for me. i could care less about the price: $5 vs. $15 is just not a big deal. but quality control does truly suck. some of what i have gotten is just truly unbelievable by today's standards: got a henley with the hem stitched randomly, a long sleeved tshirt where one sleeve rotated completely sideways or something when it shrank, sizing is inconsistent between batches, etc., etc. basically i'll only buy the simple stuff now.

i think they could easily do much better quality control within the confines of their pricing structure, but i think quality control (again, i'm talking about high volume) is more about company attitude than cost of goods. either the management has to care (and generally be hard-assed about it) or workers have to care (which often translates on some level, unfortunately, into a fear of loosing one's job). getting a "living-wage" is not going to translate into doing a better job than what management expects; it's still relatively little money to live on in LA and much less than what you can see the kids in mgmt are making.

basically, i just don't see how you're going to get high quality standards out of your employees when the president goes around giving interviews about how he likes to masturbate frequently. but i'm sure it's a fun place to work. i hope it works out for them.