wooster

Used but in very good shape. From an earlier collection year, these are Valencia street made. Very hard-core vintage fit with a lot of anti-fit in the seat.

On Ebay right now with plenty of pics. Going for $18 with 3 days left to the auction. This is a re-listing from a month or so ago (buyer couldn't pay).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140501347124&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

As much as I hate J.Crew for carrying Warehouse....lot 700 on sale, $199.99 spot blown DO IT!

http://www.jcrew.com/mens_feature/ingoodcompany/Warehouse/PRDOVR~32364/32364.jsp

30% off on top of that (MUSTHAVE)...

Used but in very good shape. From an earlier collection year, these are Valencia street made. Very hard-core vintage fit with a lot of anti-fit in the seat.

On Ebay with plenty of pics. Going for only a penny right now. I have a couple of other items up there also that might be of interest.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140489228092&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

On Ebay. Currently a little under $80 with 3 days left. I measure actual pre-wash size at W32 x L35.5. $5 shipping for SuFu.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140488275220&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

I have a pair of brand new, unworn, raw KMW 1950's in pristine condition up on Ebay. Starting bid is $100: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140323122326

Note that I'm best contacted via Ebay. I tend to lurk Sufu and don't log in every day.

i have a pair of SBU's in grey denim i got at a big discount at filene's basement. They're decent jeans but extremely overpriced at retail. i think they go for high $200's or something stupid like that...so many better choices for that kind of money. this is one of those brands that "exclusive" men's clothing stores sell at a huge margin because distribution is intentionally kept small and exclusive. i wouldn't really call the cut trim: more like standard straight leg with a medium-high rise.

i think most people here have probably determined their "true" jeans size by trial and error, with "error" being the operative word. when you're going sight unseen, and choosing an unfamiliar maker, there is a good chance that even if you get the waist right the fit won't be what you want. and even if it is there when you first try it on, maybe a week or two down the road you'll be thinking i should have sized down (or up, or not bought these jeans, or whatever). i think this is particularly true of 'canes, as a lot of the fits are pretty hardcore repro.

on the positive side, if you do screw up on fit, a good secondary market exists here and on ebay, and i think you could definitely expect to recover 50-75% of what you spent. so as long as you can afford to make a $50 or $100 mistake i wouldn't stress about it too much and just go with your best guess.

for what it's worth, i have found that good old one-wash 501's (as in JC Penny's or Sears) are pretty much good indicators of "true" jeans size. maybe just a touch larger. i'd go with the 501 size that fit kinda tight in the waist (but you could still button and sit down in without pain).

my guess would be that shipton and heneage probably make the whyreds. They definitely make a lot of the shoes that Brooks Brothers sell.

i think shipton and heneage have their shoes made for them by alfred sargent. my understanding was that brooks brothers is mostly made by crockett and jones.

i hate thrift. it's a disease. live within your means, fine, but live beneath your means? what is the point of that? with so much sadness in this world, why throw the benevolence of the universe back in its face? celebrate it, don't feel guilty about it.

even if its a bit of an addictive behavior, clothing is probably about as mild an addiction as you could hope for. and really, it's self-correcting. so you build up some debt. so you come to the realization that the pleasure from having 90 pairs of japanese denim or whatever is no longer worth the cost. that is self-knowledge, and better than denying yourself something you think you want, and never knowing how much pleasure it might have given you.

familyman, if your wife's annual salary is 2x the value of your house, then unless you guys are living in nairobi, your wife is making a truckload of money. buy the porsche. buy a nice pair boots. living on a $100 a month allowance just sounds sad. trust the future (just a little bit) to take care of itself.

i think what you hit on might be an underlying concept of wabi (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi) in both denim and shoes. maybe that's a theme that attacts many of us on the denim front, and you were intuitive enough to make the connection. i think this is some pretty original stuff you guys are posting.

btw, liked your blog entry on the boots.

the difference in fit preferences on this board always surprises me, but is one of the things that makes it so interesting. i'm 6-2 and find the new fit (after shrinkage) about an inch too long for my taste. i also found that the grey tends to shrink less.

great thread, great boots. brilliant of Miz to put this in superdenim, it's a perfect fit.

ddml's black captoes look very classic; i think the commando sole is a great choice, especially for winter.

i love miz's boots. the color and styling is amazing. i'm especially surpised at how much i like the color because i would never have thought it would work so well. and i'll add my voice about now worrying too much about the fit. as long as they're long enough, and weren't noticeably painful when you first bought them, i'm sure you'll eventually get the width you're looking for on the one foot.

and rnr's indy's look great also, again kind of a surprise as i thought they might come off sort of old-fashioned. great pics with the jeans.

some random thoughts:

i think alden cordovans have amazingly high resale value on ebay, and are listed relatively infrequently. it's a cult shoe. i bet that quoted auction gets into big dollars in the last day. i think hoping to get a bargain that way might not be too realistic.

cordovan has great heritage and some swear by it, but plain old calf leather isn't a bad option for those who don't want to commit yet to cordovan (some even prefer it). there are a number of great english shoe makers doing classic boots. www.pediwear.co.uk and www.plal.com are great sources (especially the latter for price).

for ddml's look, allen-edmonds (a maker comparable to alden) used to do a very similar calf leather captoe boot (with commando sole) called the "Andover". these come up on ebay now and then, and generally sell at very reasonable prices (sub-$100).

for what it's worth, i ordered a bunch of american apparel T's a couple of months ago and they were all a couple of inches longer in length. very noticeable difference. called them up and they confirmed that they had changed the fit, but only for length. i don't find shrinkage to be a problem any more (though i suspect some will think they are too long). in the new fit there is no 2001 on the collar tag.

No, though that's an interesting tidbitr wooster posted. I just generally prefer leather/calfskin. I've just never seen a pair of new cordovan shoes that I would've preferred over a similar calfskin model. I've also never paid $500 for shoes... not that I won't.

Also, I think horsehide ≠ cordovan, though cordovan is from a horse. I can't say definitively, but I think cordovan is more membraneous than standard horsehide. I've seen some awesome horsehide leather jackets, but that leather was not the same as you see in shell cordovan shoes.

yes, you're right, they're different. here's another factoid, this time from the ben silver website:

"Genuine shell cordovan is rare. Most leathers come from cows, but cordovan comes from horses (which are not, by the way, raised for this purpose). The “shellâ€, and let me put this as delicately as possible, is the subcutaneous layer that covers the equine posterior. Each horse provides two shells, which is just enough for a pair of shoes. A single shell isn’t long enough to form a seamless belt, so genuine shell cordovan belts will always be pieced. The most non-porous leather known, shell cordovan is distinguished by its lustrous waxy finish, superior durability, and suppleness that readily conforms to the shape of the wearer’s foot.

Cordovan is a corruption of Cordoba, the city in southern Spain where the technique of tanning this leather originated. Even today high volume production and fancy technology are powerless in its manufacture. Old school handwork is what gets the job done. The shells are put through a natural, vegetable tanning process, then hand-stained, glazed, and finished over a six-month period that demands the measured pace of craftsmanship and patience.

It’s those things that account for the expensiveness of true shell cordovan leather. Added to which there’s only one tannery which still produces cordovan leather, Horween Leathers in Chicago. Coincidentally, Horween’s other claim to fame is providing the leather for NFL footballs and professional baseball gloves. Genuine shell cordovan is a leather with character. It’s known for taking on a rich patina that improves with wear and polishing. And tough as, well, a horse’s butt. "

on the subject of "cruelty" and cordovan (horsehide), it might actually be a more humane choice of leather. this is from the aeroleather website (i assume the US source is horween, same as alden uses):

"Horsehide has many unique properties, it is immensely strong and durable even in the extreme conditions and, unlike other hides, horsehide is naturally waterproof.

The Front Quarter Chrome Tanned Horsehide used in the construction of Aero leather jackets was favoured by manufacturers during pre-war years after the introduction, in the 1950's, of a law prohibiting horses being slaughtered for leather, hides became a scarce commodity and therefore expensive, resulting in tanneries phasing out horsehide production in favour of the more readily available hides such as steer.

US Government restrictions dictate that the slaughter of equine for hides was not permitted and as such the sourcing of hides must be from animals that have died from natural causes. This makes horsehide very scarce and as a consequence rare, which makes for an expensive raw material.

After expensive research, Aero managed to source the only tannery based in the States still capable of producing this unique hide to the original specifications, although today quality hides suitable for this type of tanning are still very scarce and so availability is very limited due to the fact that all our chrome tanned leather is sourced from "natural death" horses with no slaughter involved."

Could a tailor remedy the baggy butt issue? Because mine have stretched a little more than I would have liked too.

i think it would be a major operation: if possible, it'd be expensive. better just to get a different fitting jean. i think the baggy butt is a characteristic of the SC '47s. my other repros are antifit, and get looser with wear, but only with the SC does the rear seem to expand infinitely.

No, I went for the dry 'non-wash' variety, but they do feel looser after this first week. My Baggy Bjorns in a 34in waist on the other hand are hanging off me (but that's another thread)!

that's interesting. dry, SC 47's in a 34 usually measure a bit over 34 dry (mine did, and i think the consensus experience with SC is that they measure out very consistently). be aware that you'll loose about 1/2 inch in the waist from what they were originally after your first wash. not that it matters, they'll stretch. in fact, it might be a good thing that yours came in a bit on the tight side--if i were to buy 'em again i'd definately have sized down to a 33. enjoy them.

CAFC--freshly washed and dried (i assume you bought one-wash) the 34 will measure a little less than 33.5, and will seem almost slim-fit. it will very quickly stretch to a true 34 and get baggy in the rear. like in an hour or two (in a week you'll probably want to post that they've stretched way too much).

great to see a critical discussion of the brand. much credit to partytaco for the willingness to take some heat and generate some interesting conversation. some thoughts:

-what's really irritating about evisu is the reliance on the incredibly overt branding (gulls). branding on that level is two-sided: it lets you charge a big premium to those who want to be associated with the brand, but your product then becomes more and more associated with those who will pay the premium. i don't really see this with samurai. none of the details are identifiable from more than two or three feet away, and the back pocket stitching is understated and not even consistent between samurai lines. they really don't seem interested in branding as far as i can tell.

-this whole slubby denim thing (along with natural indigo dying, maybe) seems to be something of a (high-end) trend in the japanese jeans industry these days. personal preferences vary, and it's obviously legitimate to dislike slubby, but i think it a bit harsh to call it cheesy of samurai to lean in this direction, since every other maker seems to be doing it too. and their focus on heavier denims is sort of what they are all about.

-i wonder if some of the details that we in the west would call flashy (maybe over-the-top flashy) isn't a cultural misunderstanding on our part. one of the great things about japanese culture is how they add details to things--often beautiful details--that can only be appreciated by the owner. I think the pocket linings are one of these details in japanese denim. in the west we look at that and assume there's some sort of hidden mercantile agenda going on, but maybe it's just the continuation of a long tradition of craftsmanship.

it would help if you indicate your preference on fit and quality as well as your body type. for example, when you try on the current levis 501, what don't you like about those? you might get some better alternatives than either apc or canes.

briefly, APC (new standard) is a slimmer cut then current 501 with a lower rise. the idea is to wear them raw and very tight (initially): the denim is so stretchy it will conform to your body. you'll want to wash rarely, else you have to start all over again with the stretching out process. rather than read 6 hours of conflicting advice on sizing in the APC thread, just call the NY APC store and ask them for help. you can return if the fit isn't right. i think quality is basically average, but they have selvage on the outseam, which is a nice detail. when they were sub-$100 they were a good deal, now they are way overpriced.

'47 canes are a japanese homage to the 1947 levi 501 fit. compared to current 501's you get better (and heavier) denim, better construction, selvage outseam, somewhat higher rise, and a much baggier fit in the rear (after a day of wear...they start out rather fitted). if you like a baggy fit, you'll like these bought true-to-size, but they are more about construction details and the japanese fixation with WWII-era americana. in japan they're a good value, but unless you import them directly, they are now over-priced in the u.s.

again, i think if you post preferences for fit you might get better suggestions then either of the above.

i didn't mean to imply that pbj was overpricing the AI-001's. they're natural indigo, the denim looks unique, and i bet the production run was very small. maybe they're actually a value compared to other jeans with those characteristics (like the high-end 45 rpms). however, that's some esoteric stuff, and i think hard to really appreciate to the tune of an extra $300 or so even for the more knowlegeable people on sf.

didn't the original nod to pbj come from ring-ring w/regard to better or equivalent denim quality (plus a bit more of a modern fit) to 45rpm for reasonable money? he was talking about the X-003's, if i remember correctly.

the crazy hype was regarding the $500+ A-001's. that came out of nowhere...

totally agree with paul T on this. lurked here for a long time before joining: less than a year ago ring-ring and a couple others were explaining what selvage denim was to today's "experts". too tedious to see the complaining about lack of searching and the moaning about the forum going downhill. just ignore it if it bores you. the level of chaos is part of what makes this forum interesting.

don't know about the evisu, but i've recently used bid service. They are very legit. excellent service. not cheap, though. i think many people have used them here, and i've never heard anything bad.

the 32 rescue's are too big for me. eventually i'll ebay 'em. really, i'd measure the back waist of a pair of jeans that fit. that's almost always where the waist measurement comes from in those sizing charts. usually when people try to put a tape measure around themselves they end up a size or so too big. if you're a 30 or 29 in the NS then i bet you're more like an actual 32 jeans waist.

i'm pretty sure these were 1-wash when i got them. so you can try them on and, worst comes to worst, do an exchange. postage back and forth to the UK probably wouldn't be too painful.