sweet orr

fyi

the rrl jeans on ebay are not the same as the current ones going into wholesale and in the rrl stores. the new fabrics are all developed specifically for rrl in japan. the current jeans are sewn in the u.s. and washed in the u.s. the fabrics are being produced at absolutly the best mills in japan. in terms of the fits, the current fits are the best, often the ones on ebay are from old stock 3-4 years old. any of teh ones labeled made in japan do not fit as well. in terms of measurements, on the waist measurement, obviously a low rise jean measures bigger than the tagged waist size, it sits on your hips.

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wondering if you all could help me out and determine what the deal is about these jeans? release/retail price/distribution/etc. i don't know a thing about what they are or the significance of the inside writing. figured if anyone would know, it would be you guys...

--- Original message by norcal on Aug 23, 2005 04:32 PM

look like protos / or fit sample -wash blank, made with substitiute trim. probaly came from a sample sale.

sweet-orr

126 pairs

sweet-orr

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What is the deal with fuzzy selvage?

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on Aug 9, 2005 09:23 PM

top picture is wide width fabric with a red stripe woven in to make it look like selvedge. is not selvedge fabric. most wided fabric cones something like this. real narrow width selvedge has a clean finished edge.

sweet-orr

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Is lighter color or darker color jeans make the legs look longer?

--- Original message by flyjames2002 on Aug 5, 2005 05:41 AM

batker usually make you look slimmer, the inseam length can make you look short if its too long. if you short, try a shorter inseam with less of a break, it makes you look taller.

sweet-orr

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Is there anything worthwhile, shopping-wise, in any of these cities, that I can't find in Tokyo?

Thanks!

--- Original message by zelmo on Aug 5, 2005 06:33 PM

i like shopping in osaka better than tokyo. all the stores are consolidated into 2 main neighborhoods, american village and euopean village. the 5 flagship evisu stores are all in osaka and are really cool.

sweet-orr

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so I was told

dry denim not washed but baked

so is semi-dry

what is baked denim? what is the process? and what doe sit do to the denim? does it still keep the denim hard? or semi-soft? help!!!

--- Original message by aitsuka on Aug 6, 2005 08:03 AM

usually refers to thr curing process for resin treatments. resins hold in 3d whiskers or knee creases etc.. resin is applied by spray or by bath and then baked at a high tempurature to cure. some companies now rinse jeans to desize them and bake them to dry them at the laundry. the hand feel stays crisp.

sweet-orr

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"Most of the reason i do this is to just remove the starch from the jean. If the starch from the rigid fabric stays in the jean while you wear it, the starch causes holes a lot faster than when its removed. Starch and sweat/oils create weird holes behind the knees, on the knees and in the crotch pretty quickly. "

Starch+Sweat = corrosive effect on cotton? That's an interesting anecdote and the only time I've heard of this phenomenon. I'd always thought that starch+sweat was a pretty harmless cocktail, after all, if it can cause holes in denim then surely it would also have a detrimental effect on your skin?

From my observations with starched jeans, the holes appear at stress points because the extra stiffness makes the jeans less flexible, exaggerating existing stress points - particularly the crotch where there's already a lot of stiffness from the multiple layers on the seams combined with lots of body movement. It's kind of like bending a twig. The twig will bend where it is flexible and snap at the point where it's stiff.

I've not seen many holes behind the knee, even on jeans that have been worn 1-5 years before washing. And in all those online denim galleries, I don't recall many (any?) holes behind the knee. I learn something every day. Thanks.

I totally agree with you that many times washed jeans outlast dry jeans (so much for selvedge being stronger huh?). eg. the pic of those 10 year old Marlboro jeans that were posted recently.

Maybe it's your type of sweat? I know that some people can cause high carbon tool steels to rust just by touching them and I've even heard that some people can cause guitar strings to rust simply from the sweat off their fingers.

--- Original message by ringring on Aug 3, 2005 03:13 AM

its from the starch. its not "toxic", the starch just dries out the cotton fibres, and sweat /oil (non ph balanced chemicals) weakens them. the water cleans the starch out and allows the cotton fibres to stay strong for a longer time. the reason starch is applied to the weaving yarns is to make them stiff and easy to weave with.

its applied after its woven again so that the fabric remains stiffer so that its easier to cut in production. if youve ever touched indigo yarns before they are woven at a mill, you will see that they are extremely stiff.

if i had a camera here i could show you at least 5 pairs of jeans ive worn in with "starch" holes behind the knees, at the crotch next to pairs ive washed first. this has nothing to do with selvedge or non selvedge denim.

obviously the starch doesnt create the holes, it just makes your jeans fall apart faster. i'm not claiming that "magical" starch particles on my jeans make holes all by themselves, the starch just weakens the fibres.

sweet-orr

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I should have asked this one before: this is purely hypothetical - if the tag is missing, what distinguishes a 557 from a 70505? After all, both 557 and 70505 could be single-stitched. I'd expect better whiskering on a 557 though - being a double x and all. On later jackets the front pleats don't join together at the waistband like earlier ones - thats the only guideline i know, but it doesn't seem to work all the time?

--- Original message by jdavis on Aug 2, 2005 07:49 PM

look at where the label in the neck used to be. the 557 would have a patch the size of the one found on the wasist of 501 jeans. 70505 has a smaller more rectanglar one. you can usually see where the label used to be. this is the easiest way to tell. the pleat thing also varies on the size.

sweet-orr

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hi guys, could you give me a hand with this one?

a guy i know is holding a jacket for me that was suppossed to be an early 60s 557, but in the end is wasn't. i still like the looks of the jacket, but what about pricing? how much less are 70505s priced at? i figure they'd be lower on account of them not being XX, later generation and cardstock patch. still a nice big e red tab though.

can you guys help me? i'd really appreciate it thanks!

--- Original message by jdavis on Aug 2, 2005 05:19 PM

you can tell the 557 by the size of the patch. if you are getting a regular big e jaket, there are 2 versions. the earlier version is finished at the w.b. opening on the button placket with a single needle stitch. the later ones are double needle finished like a pair of later (non v stitch) big e jeans.

regular big e jackets on ebay go for no more than 150.00 dollars right now depending on the conition and size. you can find them cheaper, they arnt too desirable right now. i wouldnt pay that much. most dealers who are sellng them for high prices have had them for a long time and are trying to re-coop money they have invested in them. 5-10 years ago they went for alot more money.

sweet-orr

APC

LEVIS

FULL COUNT

EARNEST SEWN-HARLAN FIT (PEGGED)

sweet-orr

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These look like a 606 super slim to me. Interesting that there is no articulate design. And also, a Scovill Gripper Zipper when by this period they should have a regular Scovill zipper.

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on Aug 2, 2005 04:16 PM

606 IS ONE OF THEM, ALTHOUGH THESE MAY BE DIFFERANT. IVE SEEN THESE JEANS BEFORE AND THE DENIM IS REALLY NICE, ALOT NICER THAN ALL THE ORANGE TAB STUFF. I ALSO THINK CANADA HAD DIFFERANT ZIPPER HEADS THAN U.S.

sweet-orr

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I've been looking at a lot of Japanese brands lately, especially ones that look like they have really high quality denim -- Samurai, Eternal, etc. (just browsing Rakuten and such) and although the denim is gorgeous many of the cuts have an awfully high rise. I realize that a lot of this is probably because most Japanese denim bands are absolute faithful to oldschool Levis, but don't many people find high rises irritating?

I certainly do not wear my jeans or my pants around my ass, but I wear them around my hips, so lower than they are intended to go, I guess. I'm pleased with the rise on my Nudie Regular Ralfs (which is... 10" I think? either way it's a 4-button fly including the top button) but I wouldn't mind even one button lower.

I just ordered a pair of European Edwin ED-47 (the rainbow selvage ones), which looks great and looks reasonably low-rise.

What do you guys think? Anyone else hate high rises like me?

Edited by minya on Jul 31, 2005 at 12:49 AM

--- Original message by minya on Jul 31, 2005 12:35 AM

MOST OF THEM ARNT "HIGH RISE" THEY ARE REGULAR RISE AND PROPORTIONED TO FIT A MANS BODY. I THINK MOST SHORTER RISE JEANS (ACCEPT APC) MAKE YOUR CROTCH LOOK SQUATY AND FEMININE.... BUT BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, ITS JUST MY OPINION.

THE J STITCH LENGTH / AMOUNT OF BUTTONS SHOULD BE PROPORTIONATE WITH THE OVERALL MEASUREMENT OF THE FRONT RISE (FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WAISTBAND TO THE CROTCHPOINT.) THE GENERAL RULES IS THAT YOU SHOULD NEVER SEE THE BOTTOM OF THE J-STITCH(THE STITCHING BELOW THE J STITCH) WHEN YOU HAVE JEAN ON FROM THE FRONT. THE PROPER J STITCH LENGTH IS KEY IN A GOOD FIT. ALOT OF JEANS HAVE SIMILAR OVERALL RISE MEASUREMENTS, YET THE PROPORTION TO THE J-STITCH IS BAD. SHORT J STITCH DOES NOT MEAN LOW RISE. LEVIS 1947 501 IS ABOUT 1O INCHES IN THE FRONT RISE AND 14 INCHES IN THE BACK WITH A 7 3/4" LONG J STITCH. IVE SEEN PDC AND OTHER BRANDS WITH 9 INCH FRONT RISES AND LIKE A 5 INCH J STITCH WHICH LOOKS AWFUL. ALOT OF TIMES THE BACK RISE MEASUREMENT AFFECTS THE FIT ALOT MORE.

NO MATTER HOW SHORT OR LONG A FRONT RISE IS, A GOOD FITTING JEAN SHOULD "WRAP" IN THE FRONT AND SADDLE IN THE BACK. A GOOD FITTING JEAN WILL SADDLE. YOU CAN GENERALLY TELL WHEN A JEAN Y SADDLE WELL BY FOLDING THE JEAN IN HALF AND LOOKING AT THE REAR RISE SHAPE. A GOOD FITTING JEAN, NO MATTER WHAT RISE LENGTH, WILL HAVE AN ALMOST PERFECTLY STRAIGHT SHAPE WITH LITTLE OR NO CURVE. ALOT OF JEANS (LIKE PAPER ETC) IS ARE PROPORTIONED WELL.. I THINK MAKES GUYS LOOK TOO FEMININE. APC FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN THOUGH IS SIMILAR IN OVERALL RISE LENGTH, LOOKS MORE MASCULINE BECAUSE THE J STITCH IS LONGER.

ANYONE ELSE AGREE- DISAGREE?

sweet-orr

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I've been screwed by too many random tailors in New York. Can anyone recommend a good one? At this point, I don't even care where on Manhattan the tailor is located (I live on 23rd St), I'm just looking for somebody who won't screw up simple things like taking in a shirt, taking in pants, etc.

I've heard Ramon's is good -- anybody have experience with them? thanks.

--- Original message by peteyross on Jul 29, 2005 09:07 AM

IVE HAD GREAT LUCK WITH RAMONS. IVE HAD 2 SUITS ALTERED THER THAT CAME OUT GREAT AND WAS TOTALLY AFFORADABLE. AS FAR AS DENIM, THERE ARE NO GOOD TAILORS TO BRING DENIM TO. 45RPM WILL CHAINSTITCH HEM AN OUTSDIE JEAN FOR YOU FOR 10 DOLLARS IF YOU ARE A CUSSTOMER THERE.

sweet-orr

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Mmm.. yes i agree with ringring. Rain, the occasional spill, etc won't adversely affect the condition of dry rigid denim. I have even dumped an entire cup of green tea in my lap with no ill effects (on the jeans, anyway...). Wearing dry denim for a long time creates a slightly shiny surface as abrasion and the oil from your hands, etc, work into the denim. This surface tends to resist stains and splashes. The real enemies of indigo are soap, hot water, and commercial laundry machines.

Personally I don't recommend the 'wear them in the bathtub and let them dry on you' approach to breaking in jeans, although many (including the Levi Strauss company iteslf) advocate it. Wet denim is quite easy to stretch if you put a reasonable amount of force into it. Depending on how physical you get with your wet jeans on, you may semi-permanently 'bag out' the knees and the seat to a greater extent than you would like. Just hang them up.

-- takashi

--- Original message by takashi on Aug 2, 2005 04:42 AM

I ONLY USE THE SHRINK WHILE YOU WEAR METHOD IF I AM TRYING TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF SHRINKAGE THAT I WANT. I DO THIS WHEN IM SHRINKING A JEAN THAT ALREADY FITS PRETTY GOOD RIGID, AND I DONT WANT IT TO BECOME TOO SMALL AFTER THE FIRST WASH. MOST OF THE REASON I DO THIS IS TO JUST REMOVE THE STARCH FROM THE JEAN. IF THE STARCH FROM THE RIGID FABRIC STAYS IN THE JEAN WHILE YOU WEAR IT, THE STARCH CAUSES HOLES ALOT FASTER THAN WHEN ITS REMOVED. STARCH AND SWEAT/OILS CREATE WIERD HOLES BEHIND THE KNEES, ON THE KNEES AND IN THE CROTCH PRETTY QUICKLY.

I DONT TOTALLY AGREE WITH NO WASHING AT ALL TO GET THE HIGHEST AMOUNT OF CONTRAST. IVE BROKEN IN ALOT OF RIGID JEANS WITHOUT RINSING THEM FIRST AND DRYCLEANING ONLY, AND FOUND THEM TO FALL APART FASTER. ALSO, YOU GET A VERY LIMITED RANGE OF COLOR IN YOUR CONTRAST THIS WAY, AND YOUR JEANS ALWAYS LOOK YELLOWISH /GREEN CASTED.YOU DONT GET TO SEE HOW NICE THE INDIGO COLOR OF THE FABRIC IS.

I FOUND THAT THE BEST METHOD IS TO REMOVE THE STARCH /SHRINK THE JEAN FIRST, WEAR THE JEAN FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN STAND IT WITHOUT WASHING IT, AND TO WASH IT PERIODICALLY AFTER THAT (ONCE EVERY 3 MONTHS OR SO) INSIDE OUT ON A GENTLE CYCLE WITH MILD DETERGENT. THE JEAN WILL GET MORE COLOR SHIFTING, BRIGHTER WHITES AND HIGHER CONTRAST BEHIND THE KNEES, ON THE WHISKERS ETC.. YOU ALSO GET MORE "DRAW" ON THE HEMS, SEAMS AND TRACKS ON THE SIDE.

IVE ALSO FOUND THAT THE FABRIC ON THE PAIRS THAT I WASH PERIODICALLY REAMINS STRONGER AND I GET LESS HOLES.

sweet-orr

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I've never seen this sort of jean. Anyone have any info?

http://cgi.ebay.com/60s-BIG-E-LEVIS-DENIM-JEANS-GRIPPER-ZIPPER-BLACK-BIG-E_W0QQitemZ8323532518QQcategoryZ52385QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

--- Original message by Shorty Long on Aug 2, 2005 12:23 PM

I THINK ITS A TAB THAT WAS USED IN THE 60S / 70S IN CANADA ONLY TO INIDICATE A "CHEAPER" LINE OF JEANS THAT LEVIS MADE- LIKE ORANGE TAB IN THE U.S.

ALOT OF TIMES YOU SEE IT ON A SUPER SLIM TAPERED JEAN, ALTHOUGH I DONT KNOW THE MODEL NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

sweet-orr

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There are a lot of discussions about Savile Row and bespoke, but how exactly do you judge the quality of a tailor's work?

Let's start with simple DRESS SHIRTS and leave SUITS out of it first.

I'm also interested because I live in Southeast Asia. I figure there must be good local tailors who don't charge first world London rates, and are more realistic for third world standards of living!

--- Original message by josepidal on Jul 28, 2005 09:14 PM

on suits

besides the obvious body fabric quality/ place of origin,

try on some of his jackets. check the "reach" to see if you can move your arms properly as well as the general sleave shape. sleaves should have some contour, not hang straight down. look at the lapel shapes he has. a bad lapel will ruin the whole suit. bad lapels have the notch pointing down or are too wide, this is very guido-ish. make sure the lapel notches are pointing up and proportioned well.

the first thing to look for in a quality make is the interfacing and shoulder pad materials being used on the inside of the suit jacket. a good suit will have the interior facings and shoulder pads hand /custom made to suit the actual body fabric out of fine materials. this affects how the suit drapes and fits on the shoulder slope. cheap suits have pre-fab interfacing and feel, well, cheap. bad shoulder padding makes your shoulders look big and un natural. a well made suit should have a natural shoulder slope .also check to make sure he is using quality linings for the jacket. stay away from cheap acitate.

on suit jackets, you want to have working buttonholes on the sleeves. this shows fine tailoring, and is a nice visible detail to show off. make sure he uses high quality buttons, like horn. stay away from plastic buttons.

on pants make sure he half lines the inside and uses a metal zipper. vislon zippers are really cheasy.

my expierience with hong kong tailors has been pretty good. i would bring a jacket or suit that you like and have it knocked off, thats the easiest way to articulate what you want, especially if there is a language barier. or better, buy and expensive suit there, have it copied, and return it when you're done a few days later.

on shirts-

i would look at the stitch quality. good shirts have a lot of stitches per inch, above 15 to 16 depending on the fabric. look at the interfacing and collar stand material. this is important.

hope this helps,

sweet-orr

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anyone know who now makes LVC jeans for levi, and where in the US is it done?

--- Original message by Shorty Long on Jul 28, 2005 06:53 PM

SOME OF IT WAS AT TAILOR TOGS IN (NORTH CAROLINA?) BUT I HEARD THEY ARE CLOSING. I THINK SKY BLUE IN SF MAY DO SOME AS WELL.

sweet-orr

ALL YOU NEED WITH THESE SHOES IS AN ETRO SHIRT,GUESS JEANS,ARMANI COLGNE AND SOME GEL AND YOU WILL BE A FULL FLEDGED METRO SEXUAL.

sweet-orr

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Kind of answered part of my question with a few Google searches. It seems they're made by Akademiks, which I found kind of surprising.

http://www.amerexgroup.com/pressreleases-1-20-04.asp

Wonder if it's US denim though?

--- Original message by Yakboy Equals Nurturer on May 18, 2004 05:42 PM

akademics owns prps but it is designed by a japanese guy who lives in nyc. him and his wife used to work for 45rpm. all the product is made 100% in japan from japanese fabrics.

sweet-orr

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Believe it or not I don't wear Levi's... Gasp! I know, I know...

Anyway, I'm looking to purchase some vintage repro stuff and I wanted to know: Are Levi's 1947 501XX the slimmest fitting of the repro stuff?

I like slimmer fit strait leg jeans so could anyone help me out here?

Also, is a 30 waist true, or so, to size?

Thanks for the help guys..

--- Original message by TragicBliss on Jul 28, 2005 04:41 PM

i love the rigid 1947 jeans,definatly the best lvc jean fit.

try to get get the "555"-first season or the "r"-last season models. ive noticed that the "554" fits a little weird in the ass. i am on the skinny side, and i love the way these fit. not too tight, but fitted in the thighs. knee and leg opening is bigger that the apc new standard, also the rises are higher than apc. i buy the size 30, and am an actual size 30. if youre going to shrink to fit them, buy a 31 and shrink them while wearing them, they will shrink perfect. if youre not going to wash them, by your actual size, they fit true to size when rigid.

sweet-orr

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I think all Levis had a felled inseam from the end of the redline period in 1983 till the recent re-design.

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on Jul 27, 2005 10:31 AM

ive never seen a felled inseam on a 501. maybe im wrong, but i dont think ive ever seen one.

--- Original message by sweet orr on Jul 27, 2005 08:19 PM

i stand corrected. i just looked at one on ebay.

sweet-orr

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I think all Levis had a felled inseam from the end of the redline period in 1983 till the recent re-design.

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on Jul 27, 2005 10:31 AM

ive never seen a felled inseam on a 501. maybe im wrong, but i dont think ive ever seen one.

sweet-orr

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i recently purchased a pair of red tab 501s (not shrink to fits) from filenes...i noticed that the inside leg stitching is only a single thread as opposed to the much sturdier double stitches that my older (u.s. made) pairs i've bought in the past have. what's going on here? they seem very low quality in general. are these irregulars or do all the imports come like this now? i'm not a jean expert by any means but i am a loyal levis customer...any info would be appreciated.

--- Original message by ironskulls on Jul 26, 2005 04:38 PM

the inseam on 501 jeans has had a single needle safety topstitch since the 1890s. only 505 jeans and many othe models now have felled inseams. they started doing them in the (1960s? on 517 and othe cuts) the double needle felled inseams (like on 505s or apc jeans) is a cheaper and faster way to do an inseam. the single needle safety stitch on an inseam requies 2 sewing operations, one to serge, the second to the topstitch and uses more thread. double needle felled seams are done on a felling machine in one operation. both are strong,but the single needle is "more premium". the 501 never comes with double needle on the inseam.

sweet-orr

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Sweet Orr:

I work for a 60K case winery in Carneros Napa Valley. We make pinot noir and chardonnay. Come visit some time, you are in the bay area right? I am also making my own cab /merlot based wine on a label I hope to start in the next two years.

--- Original message by Serge d Nimes on Jul 25, 2005 09:23 PM

hey serge-

i'm not in the bay area, but if i get out there sometime ill shoot you an email.

sweet-orr