slt

Thanks for advise erk,resa,garden&slt...will post pic after complete.

Slt@ not sure the time period ..when good year welt is invented,,but for sure this boot is so yesterday. by look at it character #1 pegging entire sole with wooden pegs which is no longer done today #2 ..is 3 initial round eyelet than follow by speed hooks.Most old boot start with 3 eyelet.just my opinion.

The first machine was patented in 1869, invented by Daniel Mills, and followed by later improvements by Goodyear, Mills and Hadley.

http://goodyear-welt...ACHINES_FOR.pdf

http://www.google.co...ts/US170547.pdf

http://www.google.co...ts/US127423.pdf

Pegged soles are actually not an entirely lost art, although I suppose it's only seen on bespoke shoes now a days.

Even here in little Denmark you can have a bespoke shoe made with pegged soles, albeit by a maker that was originally trained in Bosnia it seems.

http://www.thelondon...php?f=4&t=10446

Your boots do look rather old for sure. Any idea of the brand?

Before

Found that ..this boot is made before good year welt is invented..which is pegging the entire sole with wooden pegs(nail).

Which means from before 1869

Anyway, I also think they would look better with a stained sole.

nm. Just saw the question had already been answered

Nice Greens. 888?

Yes, it's 888

Edward Green Gresham, antique pine

Rider boots, whiskey shell

Rider boots, mahogany shell

Thanks for the help, here goes, hope it works.

Those Harlech look terrific.

If only they had come with a Dainite sole; I would have been all over those a long time ago.

Don't know if these have been shown before...

C&J Norfolk, dark brown wax calf, 332 last

Somewhat less sturdy and more 'elegant' than the Coniston

not entirely sure why my posts keep getting deleted from this thread...

Me neither

They ain't Aldens and the picture isn't very good, but anyway...

GG Gable, Vintage Cedar, TG73 last

These are C&J Belgraves. I have them. They are dope.

Not that it's a big deal, but I also have the CJ Belgraves, and they are different from the RL's here in a couple of ways.

The Belgrave have a closed channel sole whereas the sole on the RL isn't closed, and another difference is that the RL has a rounded toe, which is quite different from the slightly square toe of the 337 last.

Even though I'm quite sure the RL is not a Belgrave with another name, it could still very well be by CJ, as far as I can see from the nail pattern on the heel.

The 6077 seems to be a low-cut 7-eyelet version of the 6087

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/gmmstore/trickers6077ls-bb/

They look somewhat like the 6087, who seems to be primarily available on the Japanese market

E.g. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/everrich/6077/

Quite reasonably priced.

I can;t give you a definite answer- I'd be interested to hear anyone's information on this too:)

But I've been told by a friend who knows about these things that Monkey boots were cheap construction-workers' boots that skinheads who couldn't afford Doc Marten's bought. They've since acquired cult classic status, so other brands have remade them (like the trickers fre$co quoted below), probably better quality than the originals.

please correct me if i'm wrong, or if anyone knows anything more

I've seen more or less the same explanation, i.e. the term comes from the boots originally worn by construction workers, who are climbing buldings, scaffolds etc. and therefore are being nicknamed 'monkeys'.

is this true? I know cordovan is very expensive, but does it really need 2-3 horses to make a pair?

Well, as I remember, it's traditionally said to be one horse per pair, but I guess it really depends on the size of the horse(s) and especially how big a butt they have

The only thing that bothers me about these is the Cordovan booklet you got with them. It's great when companies include this kind of thing, but on this one the English is really bad- like it was written by someone for whom (being careful now:D) English wasn't their first language. "trouble-less for the health", "a pair of shoe", "fiber (American rather than British English)", "unique flavour (British English) and a gloss". :confused:

I agree about the writing in the booklet, and my immediate take on this was that the leather doesn't come from Horween in Chicago but rather from Japan, with the most likely candidate being the Shinki-Hikaku Co. http://www.shinki-hl.co.jp, It's still real shell though.

Received my tricker's bourton from the factory shop today, it only took 2 days till it arrived. So, the shipping is extrordinary fast. The packing is also excellent. The only thing is, the shoe doesnt fit me. It is way too big. Althought it said 7 1/2 u.s. fitting 5 on the listing. It feel like size 7 1/2 uk. Which now i need to return it. The leather has a waxy feeling and it is pretty thick. The color is more burgundy than dark brown.

Too bad they didn't fit you.

They look very nice in the pictures, and I can see from the text in the guide that they are real shell, so it was certainly a great deal.

well, thanks again, the seller told me it would retail over 500 at the store, anyway, cordovan or not, i still find the shoe very beautiful. It is something that i dont have right now.

If they would retail at over £500, then they for sure must be real shell.

And at £100 and given the fact that you really like them, I guess it's a no-brainer

slt

the captoe are the RL? when you get it, is it beechnut color?

No, the captoe is the regular C&J Belgrave, and the color is chestnut.

The RL is called Alton.

slt:

thanks, so are there different type of cordovan?

i dont think they are shell cordovan because of it didnt specifically say so.

So, if it is just regular cordovan, it just means horse leather?

Well, I'm actually not one to say that for sure.

As far as i remember, the usual Northampton term for shell cordovan is 'crup', not 'krupp', but that could of course just be a local variation, and I'm not sure that it's something conclusive regarding the leather.

I think that normally shell cordovans from Northampton would retail at £350 - £400, and of course Lobb's or Green's somewhat more (if they make them). The C&J's are mostly around £390, so a starting price of £100 seems almost to good to be true for real shell, which could lead one to believe that they are horse leather, but not actually shell cordovan.

I guess you could ask the seller a direct question about it.

Another C&J for RL Polo:

Side by side with the C&J Belgrave, both on the 337 last:

Again the RL is a US 8.5E and the Belgrave is a UK 8E

I just got a pair of these myself. Awesome shoes

You have the UK Conistons and the RLs on the same last, what are the marked sizes of each?

The Coniston (you're right, no double n) is 8E and the RL is 8.5E

As far as I remember, the US 'normal width' fitting is D, which means the RL is a slightly wide fitting in US terms.

With a D fitting, it would have been necessary, for me at least, to have gone up to a US 9.

so which has a thicker leather? The cordovan or the calfskin?

also, is cordovan more water repellent than calf?

My cordovans, Crockett & Jones for Polo RL:

Compared to my calfskin shoes, the leather migth generally be slightly thicker, but it's not much of a difference, and I have at least a couple of pairs of calfskins where leather is just as thick as the cordovans.

Side by side with the C&J Conniston (they are on the same last, 325):

Shell cordovan is generally considered more water repellent than calfskin.

I had a look at the Tricker's you mentioned earlier, and if they are really shell cordovan and without serious faults, then they are extremely cheap, almost suspiciously so

hi guys need you guys to decide for me

c&j hallam

with dainite sole ( whats dainite ??)

c&j bedford

black shell corodvan

double leather sole

or

bedford C&j

black calf

oxford

help!!!!!!!!!

Don't know if you have noticed, but the Bedford is only available in C and G fittings, i.e. very narrow or very wide.

The Hallam is also available in black with a single leather sole, and if you like the somewhat elongated and sleek 348 last, then that one is definitely what I would recommend for a wedding.