moonbomb

as i understand, the bucklback is shrink to fit and was a special run. they usually carry "rigid" unwashed - not shrink to fit - in 5 pocket AND they run a one wash rinse in 5 pocket as well... hope this info helps...

"I have a pair of RRL slim bootcut that isn't selvege; strangely, it's 98% cotton 2% lycra. They are pretty distressed and fit nice and slim, although they've stretched out a little.

Maybe I unknowingly bought a pair of women's jeans...?"

yes, you have got a pair of women's RRL stretch. no stretch in men's, all selvedge.

M1sterko.... one RRL store in Malibu, the Polo Store in Beverly Hills...but it's actually at American Rag on La Brea as well as the HTC section of Ron Herman Santa Monica. Rigid jeans start at $210. There isn't much on the polo site about RRL. Thought I'd jump in and let you know.

To my understanding, Yamane of Evisu-fame is using rope-dyed, shuttle loom selvedge dneim made in China for his eponymous line. I actually was at the store opening last fall in HK just doors up from Take5's old location. Kurabo makes versions of it's fabrics - ringxring - out of China that are pretty damn nice for half the price. I actually have some cuts of Chinese rope dyed, shuttleloom selvedge all very slubby and quite open in construction - it's nice stuff. I think the main difference you will find is overall execution of the fabric in production i.e. the fabric samples will be comparable but when you order thousands of yards, it may not be as consistent as Japanes and Italian denim... My 2cents.

You're welcome. Actually if they are designed as a distrssed wash and replicated at the laundry, then the back knee whiskers were applied by hand at a factory laundry. Most times, the designer will designate a specific length below the crotch for the knee whiskers to "start" or be applied. Sometimes, this is a late detail no one makes sure happens and placement can come out too low (or too high)... No telling if it was Levi's or factory error...

If they are distressed, most likely the shrinkage is built into the garment. I say "most likely" because most distressed washes go through a full process to avoid variances - so I think you will be ok, especially if the shade of your jeans is lighter than rigid indigo blue... There may be cases of odd, anomolous partial washes i.e. unwashed with starch 3-d and sanding vs. resin or some other weirdness but should not be the case with LVC... There may be the normal slight shrinkage because wash/dry will tighten up the fibers as with any pair of jeans, but they should "stretch" back to where they should be after a little wear in time. Hope this makes you feel more comfortable about getting them.

RRL Slim Bootcut Rigid

Old Pair of LVC 4 Pocket from 1999

Sugar Cane Okinawa with the multi colored fill

hey, it could be two places - most likely the first... as you mention, the big thing is earnest cut & sewn - google that and you will find all the info you need. secondly, there is the jean shop on 14th street....

i'm pretty sure these are an "authentic" reproduction by levi's vintage clothing (lvc) ~2000. the original duck canvas from archives and those first duck canvas pants have an awful fit. looking at the silhouette in the picture, the rise is too short and waist/hips are too narrow... you should see what the originals look like... i worked there when the team met together to review how to approach the repro... a lot of effort and attention was paid to the construction, fabric, trim for authenticity but no the had to tweak the fit to make it sellable....

those are RPM or BPM (with buckleback) model paper denim & cloth made of Japanese selvedge. heavy resin, sewn in la, washed in ky.... pdc did some higher priced styles with selvedge for special accounts - i believe - they may have a black paper label instead of the white, if they are the older version. i have a pair...

tweedles - i agree with your points but i guess in my post i did not explain myself clearly enough. i was in no way trying to state that all selvedge is better or more expensive than its modern brother - nor was i saying selvedge alone is an indicator of greater quality..... nor was i saying jet-loomed fabric is not as good as shuttle loomed. i have designed in both and all types of denim - and fabric is a starting point for a pair of jeans and not by any means a sole indicator of "goodness."

i was simply providing my thoughts on why authentic, shuttle loom selvedge denim is valuated by people as it is and costs more. the act of creating the fabric on shuttlelooms with its added manual operational component is what makes the denim special. different people have different measures of value. is a machine knit sweater with its smooth, consistent knit "better" than a hand knit sweater of the same yarn that might be a little lumpy here and there? depends on what you as an individual value.

i am a fan of shuttle loom denim because of the craftsmanship involved, because it takes longer to weave, because it does not quite perform as well as its modern equivalent but it's more human - just as I would rather ride an old single carb triumph motorcycle from the 60's than the latest, faster, newer rocket suzuki.

it would be curious to see if people on this list could tell the difference - i honestly feel like I can tell denim from shuttle looms vs projectile - inconsistencies which are "manufactured" by technology always seem to look, feel a little different - mock ring yarns vs ring for example.... and the differences become mroe apparent with wear and time.

i am new here and have simply been reading for the past few weeks... i finally decided to post on the spur of the moment... i am not sure what your p/s means - i definitely did not want to piss anyone off - so if i did, i apologize.

I don't know if this is answered later in the the thread but thought I would jump in... Authentic selvedge denim is woven on shuttle looms which generally produce narrower goods (usually 29" wide) vs. wide goods on modern projectile looms which are more "efficient" where goods usually range up to 60" wide. Because the goods are narrow, they need the selvedge edge to maintain the integrity of the fabric. Some mills have produced modern "fake" selvedge by creating the selvedge edge on wide width goods woven on projectile looms.

Cost = time=material=qauntity/demand. Shuttle looms are slower and weave narrower goods. They take longer and produce less fabric. Shuttle looms are also more rare and put less product out into the market. Narrow goods are not as efficient for cutting the patterns. The higher usage, more yardage of fabric (wide goods will avg just under 2 yards for a men's jean while a selvedge denim will need a little over 3 yards to make the same jean), greater time: increase cost.

A real expert can tell shuttle loom fabric from projectile loom fabric because of the inconsistencies. The inconsistencies which modern technology sought to eliminate provide the character and variability in the selvedge denim that modern denims lack. Because they are narrow, the sanforizing/finishing on the fabric is not as effective on wider goods - so twisting of the seams often occur. The uniqueness and craftmanship necessary to run a shuttle loom efficiently add to its inherent value.

Levi's WWII jean had painted arcuates to conserve thread during wartime as an arcuate was seen as decorative, not functional. I believe they created a stencil that looked like the stitches and brushed over it in yellow/gold paint. Levi's did a reissue of the jean in a limited run with the painted back arcuates I believe in the late 90's/early 2000's....