alitarbegshe

P.S

A press article from ‘00 regarding LVC and the RED collection

Better RED then dead

Unfortunately not. They got moved on or donated a long time ago.

There was a Japanese collector who who had every season on his blog, but it looks like the link doesn’t work anymore

Lol, I remember back in maybe 2003, Levi’s boutique store, Cinch , the price of LVC jumped from £100 to £130 overnight.

I asked about this and was given the simple answer “we are keeping up with the market”

ie Evisu is charging that much, so will we.

Maynard Friedman, I was the one posted in 2008.

Ok, so the design team for Levi RED were based out of Belgium, led by Rikke Korffe, with input from Levi’s Historian Lynne Downey  in San Francisco

The 1st giant was made in Spain , but the denim was sourced from Turkey together with LVC 201’s at the time

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FUN FACT  A pair of LVC 501 1947’s were £100 full price back in 00/01.  Thats $110 USD before tax.

How times have changed.

———////

I loved them , and picked a pair up every season from ‘99 to ‘05

Prices started from £80  for the 1st collection , but had escalated to around £150 by ‘05.

Though they did turn up at times in  TKMaxx at bargain prices 

They were very design led .Forward looking, but at the same time referencing the past.

Sizing was all over the shop  though.

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FUN FACT 2:  pre 2001 there was  about practically no information on selvedge on the internet. At all.

times have changed

——-//////

It’s interesting. Levis RED got hated on these parts back in the day every time it got mentioned. Mainly because it didn’t adhere to the “Japanese selvedge  traditional heritage look” 

Personally, with age the pendulum has swung the other way. I am less design led and now lead with fit.

For the £500 asked for in some quarters, O would rather take a pair of Lot 1 bespoke Jeans.

/////

Any question you have, fire away, see what I can do to answer them.

@rusholmeruffian

Leeds, and i did say boutiques. HIP, kiosk 78 etc usually have everything from APC lVC SDA EDwin Evisu Denime etc.

The high st was a reference to selvege denim. Now everyone from M&S to topman have it in their range.

G star Nudie and even All saints carry selvedge denim in their line. Cant remeber what was "in" 5 years ago, but i doubt any of them would have selvedge in their range or even market them as doing so.

Reviving an old thread.

%5years on, would you say the denim landscape has changed significantly? Particularly in the USA?

Again to re-iterate what i said 5 years ago, the city I live in is very fashion forward, so brands from SDA, APC LVC are all available in local boutiques.

Even the mainstream high street stores have them from time to time.

What,s the situation around your way?

Let's hope all this talk about the fabric for the new collection matches the originals, because the hemp/cotton denim from the 1st 1999 RED collection was something otherworldly. It had the most gorgeous shade of natural indigo, backed with a golden glow of hemp, and it was super slubby, with little nubbly spots where the hemp fibers erupted from the surface - one of my personal favourite denims in all my collecting.

Here's a pic of the original 40%hemp 60% Cotton denim vs. the 100% cotton version that came out later. The jeans shown here are both the 1st Standard model.

Unfortunately Crackerhead, I feel we may be dis-appointed.

When the RED collection stopped for a while in 05, it was carried on in Japan with different cuts.

Last season they released the originals, and I have to say the denim just does not compare.

Now using japanese denim and a red line selvedge, the denim is nowhere near as as slubby or nubbly.

1st Giant was the 1st denim that hooked me in and finding an OG is still a holy grail. Hard to convey in photo's how good the denim wad. An the fades from a deep indigo to the greenish hue was something else.! Recently picked up the 100% cotton, but it just does not compare.

Really really hope they do this proper, with turkish denim and the hidden back pocket.

Some pics of japanese collection:

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/gmmstore/levis-3017-0001/

Tarmac: If you can tell, then the tailor who is doing the job is shit.There's a reason it's called an invisible seam.

truestorytravis: Yup, the extra fabric can be an issue if you cuff ( I'me short and like stacking, so not an issue). But if you ask a tailor to razor away the extra material as close to the seam as possible, it will look like random tiny threads of cotton that has frayed away from the hem.

Oh yea of little faith!

Download it and have your anti-virus software preview-scan it for malicious code.

But first, a message from our sponsors............

Ha, ha. Now seriusly, have been away from these boards for a while, I come back to see the new focus of attention has moved away from selvedge to hem stitching, with people going to great lengths to ensure the vintage repo jeans maintain their original chainstitched, even transporting them to a different country (respect synthi!)

Problem being, the thread colour may not be the same, the thickness could be different, the strength in the cotton may be mercerised and a whole host of problems.

" Get to the f***g point!! " I hear you silently scream. Ok Ok, take your favourite jeans down to your favourite tailor and then ask him to reattach the original hem with an invisible seam. Job done.

Don't believe me? Here's a little pictorial on how it's done:

http://www.figandplum.com/archives/Hemming%20Jeans%20Like%20a%20Pro.doc

Thank you thank you, I'me here all week and I accept credit cards, as well as paypal.

1stly, this is not without precedent, levi have gone head to head with many companies, from diesel, evisu and even tesco (uk chain of supermarkets)

I can see where they are coming from. For them, their biggest biggest asset is their branding, and it is understandable they will protect it with everything they've got. Even letting a cottage industry like small japanese firms create jeans that are a "nod to history and a tribute" is setting a precedent which will come smack them in the face in the future.

So all they are asking is the removal surface embroidery. Big deal. easily fixed. Normal service will resume in a few weeks and this will blow over quite quickly. Will be intersting to see how SDA Samurai Sugarcane come up with regards to distinctive back pocket logo.

Sooo

I take from all this, that ring spun denim is the important factor, rather then selvege to get good fade (obviously with a heavy dollop of wear and tear)

Also that ring spun is stronger then open ended, so will last longer.

Also, with a few exceptions, all selvege denim is ring spun. So even cheap selvege (uniqlo etc) is is double ring spun.

Good. That's what I thought.

haha my mind's turning itself round something...but i can't put my finger on it. argh.

just to return briefly to the title of the thread (which i re-noticed), alitarbegshe i'm going to paraphrase a point ringring has made often: that while selvedge is usually an indicator of a certain dedication to historical detail on the part of a mill, there are enough companies offering selvedge denim of various qualities today, such that the presence of a selvedge finish should not automatically suggest that the denim is necessarily of good quality, more durable, or will look better than nonselvedged denim over time, etc.

True. And this has been what I've been saying as well, that things such as selvedge and indigo dye are historical attractions, and are mere indicators of quality.

The thing being was, I always assumed for some reason, regardless of quality, that selvedge denim was ALWAYS double ring spun whereas nonselvedge may or may not be double ring spun.

Another myth destroyed.

I can't believe companies can hark on about making jeans the "tradition way" and not use double ring spun! That's just cheating!

You learn something new every day!

One of the reasons I started purchasing seledge denim was because i automatically assumed this would be double ring spun, not open ended.

Damn! Now I am loooking at my denim collection and wondering which ones are open ended....

Title says it all really.

It would folow that no selvege denim would be open spun if that is the case.

Just following a chain of thought in my head.

Cheers!

Errrrr....... Topman have been doing selvedge denim for over three years now, as have Gap with the 1969 range (They actually started out as distributors of levi in the 60's, so you could say they've been doing it from the beginning, lol)

Not too bothered. The mainstream will never bee interested in selvege anyway, too esteoric. And has been mentioned, like natural indigo, selvedge does not necessarily make a better denim,it's just a historical attraction.

Besides, why care? Taking an anti-fasion and elitist stance can be just as bad as being a fashion whore.

My 2 cents.

Heritage is different to brand loyalty. Sugarcane et all are more mindful of why these jeans were made theway they were/are then levi is.

Democratic does not necessarily mean cheap. Making the best possible product is one thing, but i personally think once you take workwear past a certain price point, where the premium price does not add to the functionality of the product, it stops being workwear.

That's why i am trying to be careful with the language. In a thread like this, single words can change the whole uunderstanding of a statement.

Heritage is important to me.

Lee, Levis and Wrangler's heritage is intertwined, not only with american history, but also with street culture. From miners, cowboys, through rock goths, hip-hop and onwards.

Remember jeans have their heritage in workwear. As such jeans was designed purely on a utilitarian level, where superfluous details were removed and key points were re-enforced, hence the non-design design aesthetic. That is something that we will probably never see again.

That's why i would be so un-comfortable picking up a pair of , say 45rpms. Paying the same price as a couture piece is to me, missing the attraction of denim as much as pre-washed jeans. Denim should always be democratic.

It's just such a pity Levi replica's do better "levi's" then levis. I think Lee has always been the dark horse an i don't really know much about wrangler to comment.

I wish i had a better vocabulary. I know what i am trying to convey, but feel like i am not saying it well enough

Edited by alitarbegshe on Jun 9, 2006 at 12:39 PM

Swyche- I hear ya.

to get rid of that crease i would wear jeans lower and lower till it start feeling slightly rediculous!

Think ihis is more a problem for people wearing loose jeans.

But it definitely dissapers with wear of selvedge, trust me. Just have to keep the faith for a few months that it will sort itself out and try not get too self conscious.

Edited by alitarbegshe on Jun 5, 2006 at 01:35 PM

Just to add

Same dilema as you sneakeraddict, lied my jeans oversized and what SF'ers considerd to be regular fitting, i considered to be a bit too fitted.

Usually buy 32" when i buy a loose cut, but was too scared to go down to 30" for fear of them being ball breakers. So compromised and settled on 31" from zoovillage just before they stopped shipping to the UK.

Wish i had gone for 30". definitelt 3" bigger them tag. Slightly too loose in that i have a slightly pointy arse and definitely need a belt to keep them up. Hopefully they will calm down a bit after wear and wash like a few other selvege pieces i have.

Oh, and they really aren't baggy. Loose straight would be a better term. Bagginess comes from oversized and lower pockets. Really nice left hand denim, fades relatively quickly, the denim bag and kit a bit superfluous.

p.s Dont think anyone has mentioned this, but if you go to the zoovillage site, they give true measured size next to tag size in a grid in the bottom corner to help with sizing.

Hope this helps.

Absolutely killed my 1st pair of engineered levi, loved the way it shaped it's way around my body and the whiskers were in the right place.

Reading an articel in The Face and a tip from a friend. got me into selvedge via evisu and LVC, and it's been going on ever since.

Funny thing being, my jeans definitely turned out better when i just wore em and forgot about it, instead of getting anal about starching, washing, drying, bleach -free soap yada yadda. Trying to get back to that mentality.

That would be moi.

And a closer look at the detailing:

http://www.edwin-furutaka.com/lee/Lee-rvd.JPG

Edited by alitarbegshe on May 24, 2006 at 01:09 PM

Yep, this is the global line.

Levi are actually doing alot of skinny jeans, but are concentrating this on the womens range.

p.s[url=" http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=9310"] <a href="http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=9310" target="_blank">http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=9310</a>

Just wanted to highlight how a proper ebay post should look like.

Hiw many time shave you seen vintage levi's reach stratospherice levels on the back of a few blurry images and a description the entails "found in a house clearance, kmow nothing about them , there you go."

I actually enjoyed reading the description, and wish others sellers went to such care and detail.

Dunno. thought others may get something from it and may bring about a constructive discourse. Obviously you think not.

Now this is an example of a great seller on ebay (no affiliation at all)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=52794&item=6855361151

Clear pictures, great product knowledge, clean layout, accurate measurements, questions replied to quickly. Puts many web stores and other ebayers 2 shame.

I reckon it has 2 be a poster on these forums.

Whoever props.

I remember a conversation about this in another thread.

Lee japn recently changed their line-up, with the '34, '37, '44 still being part of the european range.

From speaking 2 a friend, he states the shrinkage is as the old pairs (2 inch bigger then tag, 3 inch longer)

Lee's chronology is no where near as detailed as levi's so it is quite feasable that they played around with the tagging and pocket design year on year.

Ver sweet denim. Monsieur xcoldricex may be receiving a PM as soon as i sort my finances.