Vintage Denim?

[Dr_Heech]

1 hour ago, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I'll take that W35 L33 deadstock pair  

You'll have to join the queue first 

[Dr_Heech]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:53 AM, beautiful_FrEaK said:

I'll take that W35 L33 deadstock pair  

Actually l am talking out of my arse as usual - those 35x33 look to be 1982 or older so not my cuppa tea. The deadstock 40x31 are more my bag but hopefully I'll never be overweight enough to fit into a 38/39 waist. Plus l'd have to chop off my feet at the ankles in order to make them work for me. 

I think now that @silencejoe has disclosed his vintage jeans, it's about time  that @Sympathy-For-The-Denim showed us some decent pics of his 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Dr_Heech

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

you've got a good very memory Dr.! I will try by tomorrow, but don't mind if the pics aren't becoming that decent, since I don't have the opportunity make take em in daylight.

my photos taken inside always seem not that accurate in terms of colour.

[Dr_Heech]

2 hours ago, Sympathy-For-The-Denim said:

you've got a good very memory Dr.! I will try by tomorrow, but don't mind if the pics aren't becoming that decent, since I don't have the opportunity make take em in daylight.

my photos taken inside always seem not that accurate in terms of colour.

Can't you borrow a decent camera? 

Or better still, sell me a pair and then you can buy a nice DSLR camera with a flash 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dr_Heech

[shredwin_206]

@Dr_Heech this post of jackets now has me hunting down a 1920s Freewheelers denim jacket….. haha 

[Dr_Heech]

4 hours ago, shredwin_206 said:

@Dr_Heech this post of jackets now has me hunting down a 1920s Freewheelers denim jacket….. haha 

Glad to be of some help.

After much deliberation last chrimbo, l also decided to pick up a 1927 506xx. Not Freewheelers though.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dr_Heech

[Maynard Friedman]

Which one Chaz?

[Dr_Heech]

4 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Which one Chaz?

I will reveal all when l have the time 

 

[Maynard Friedman]

Must be a long brand name then if it takes too long to type!

[Duke Mantee]

1 hour ago, Dr_Heech said:

After much deliberation last chrimbo, l also decided to pick up a 1927 506xx. Not Freewheelers though.

 

Duke Mantee dislikes this post 

[Dr_Heech]

55 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Must be a long brand name then if it takes too long to type!

It's taking the time to make a decent post with photos that takes  more consideration and longer to type. This isn't Reddit y'know.

 

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

 

here your are: for the start I've chosen a Lee 91-B Jelt Denim Chore Jacket which I would estimate being made in the 1970s?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Sympathy-For-The-Denim

[Duke Mantee]

The label suggests 70s for sure

[Dr_Heech]

@Sympathy-For-The-Denim Any insight into what the number 63 is all about?

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

thanks Duke for confirming!

I don´t have clue Dr., got these very cheap via Ebay from France, maybe it's from a bike race!?

[Dr_Heech]

24 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

The label suggests 70s for sure

According to some Japanese denim magazines, 1968 onwards for the addition of MR after the registered trademark 'R".

Also the pocket zipper was a ball on a chain type until c.1966, when the teardrop style was introduced. 

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

thanks Dr.! do you know if they had used poly or cotton thread back in the 70s?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Sympathy-For-The-Denim

[Dr_Heech]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:34 AM, Sympathy-For-The-Denim said:

thanks Dr.! do you know if they had used poly or cotton thread back in the 70s?

I would imagine poly thread. When l look at old red label Lee 101J jackets from the pre-1960 period, the yellow stitch turns pale yellow/almost white which suggests cotton thread. I also used to own an early 101LJ  which had pale yellow stitching. With my early 60's 101LJ that l still have, the stitching has a slight shine to it, so l'm guessing poly thread.

There's a Japanese Lee collector on lg 'archaic monster' who has a number of early jeans and jackets, and is always discussing various Lee nuances. If you're not on lg, l could always ask him for you?

[Edit] contacted him myself and he suggests c.1968 when the MR was introduced (not sure what MR stands for btw) but he also stated that there is alot of variation in thread between 1965 and 1970, so no defining line.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Dr_Heech
To add stuff

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

poly or cotton, I love that jacket anyway. from all my unworn denim jackets (most of them LVC) this os the one I wear most since it doesn't take me years to wear in.

thanks for the tip on 'archaic monster' btw.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Sympathy-For-The-Denim

[Duke Mantee]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:11 AM, Dr_Heech said:

According to some Japanese denim magazines, 1968 onwards for the addition of MR after the registered trademark 'R".

Also the pocket zipper was a ball on a chain type until c.1966, when the teardrop style was introduced. 

I knew the pocket zipper thing Doc - but I hadn’t realised the label could be as early as ‘68 … good to know - cheers

[bartlebyyphonics]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:28 PM, Dr_Heech said:

Yes my first thought was similar, with a jacket/blouse of the same era being short. But it also looks like a belt may have been used and maybe that's the reason (?) If it was a chore coat or longer garment, maybe that's the reason for the belt loops having faded (?)

 

I think you're right: a second belt would abrade the belt loops whilst protecting the rest of the fabric...

looking fwd to yr 20s 506...

also: great pick up @Sympathy-For-The-Denim - looks smart!

[Dr_Heech]

6 hours ago, bartlebyyphonics said:

...  looking fwd to yr 20s 506...

 

Thanks Bartles, l plan to gently wear it for at least 6 months to get some creases in before l wash.

I will be stealth wearing it as Mrs_Heech is unaware of the purchase (it will be a birthday present to myself come wintertime ) - due to me having 'enough denim'. Guess she has a point of sorts as, jeans aside, l now have 4 type one jackets as well as my old Stormrider. 

Hey l'm a denimhead, so what does she expect!?

 

[unders]

I expect a bunch of you will have already seen this from Instagram, but for those that haven’t Brit Eaton is holding what looks to be a mega denim auction / festival. The lots are online now. Some absolute porn here:  https://hibid.com/lots?q=397750&status=OPEN&miles=50

[Maynard Friedman]

Didn’t he write American Psycho?

[unders]

The very same. 

[Dr_Heech]

While we're all waiting for @Sympathy-For-The-Denim to carry on with his denim collection photo bombing, here's some more of my ramblings to help with all the 1930's back yoke theories. Hey, what else is there to do? 

If you look back to page 21 l think, l've posted many pics of other brands who tried to copy the famous Levis arcuates and apply them to their respective denim jeans; this roughly occurred from the late 1920's with brands like Penny's and Lee, right up until the 1940's. Nearly all the pairs posted have the overlapped or female back horizontal yoke. Unlike Levis who continued with the male horizontal yoke.

Two events happened around the same time: The introduction of the National Rodeo Association in 1927 and more importantly, the Great depression 1929-1933. Desperate for income in an austerity-driven climate, the two main Railway companies and Cattle bosses got together an idea to introduce eastern tourists to the idea of being a cowboy (or cowgirl) - holidaying on a real working western ranch . And so the Dude ranch was born. This would've been c.1934 l believe as the lady's Levis were introduced a year later.

Now we know that the introduction of Levis patented hidden rivets was a direct result of the sudden popularity of Levis 501's outside of the usual cowboy/labourer market, and now l am wondering if the change in the horizontal yoke set up was also because of this? So a customer led thing, which was more about comfort? We know that the vertical back seam changed from right over left to left over  right around 1936/37 (why was that? A comfort thing or manufacturing improvement?) but the more horizontal yoke didn't change until later. And it was very short lived. I guess we'll never know if Levis would have continued using the female horizontal yoke if the war hadn't intervened, but my theory is that it must've been more time consuming/expensive, as they dropped it just before the war model  and used the male style yoke that was always used before (since c.1873).

Anyway enough blah. Here are two photos stolen from lg. The first is the inside back of a pair of 501XX from c.1937 (the first hidden rivet model) and the second is the inside back of a pair of 501XX from 1942 (the last hidden rivet model with a buckle). On both pairs you can see straight away that the yoke is a male horizontal yoke. The only main difference is the copper-plated iron rivets on the 1942 pair. After this, the s501XX was introduced in late 1942 which obviously changed how the 501 would look after the war finally ended.

To be continued  ...

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dr_Heech
Grammar lol

[Dr_Heech]

Here's a pair of 501XX with the overlapped/female yoke. Talking to the owner, an avid denim collector from Japan, he confirms through discussions back home that these female-yoked pair date from c.1940. This year date is suggested as the beginning of the overlapped/female type of yoke. They would've had a silver buckle but it's been cut off.

Thanks to masa vintage.

 

 

 

[Dr_Heech]

Last pair. The same as before but with the black stitching on the inside of the waist band, which was a pre-war detail BUT a silver buckle, so late 1941.

The owner, a California thrifter, revealed that this pair cost him $2 from an estate sale. Got to be the find of a lifetime!

 

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Fooleo]

Wow,  actually surprised to see the marbling/grainy-ness on that '41 pair looks much more akin to warehouse's banner denim than most other actual pre-war 501s I've seen

[indigoeagle]

Among other things like a guitar from the Beastie Boys he's also showing some vintage denim.