Jump to content

Vintage Denim?


johnmc

Recommended Posts

  • 2 weeks later...

Quality stuff. The Foremost / Levi’s comparison pic is superb - the Levi’s look better but my brain’s probably conditioned to think that :mellow:

I was Googling to see if Levi’s clamped down on these actuates after they registered theirs. Couldn’t find anything but did see this interesting page of Levi’s live trademarks

https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/apparel/levis/#90088399

The older ones are at the bottom. Chuff knows what the Puboo one is all about...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

'Unknown' brands -

20210413_075412.jpg

 

Standard Overall Mfg. Co. out of Wisconsin was the business that established the brand ‘Standard Overall’ as the label suggests - dunno how long they existed.

Was the Montgomery Ward stuff made by Powrhouse by way of a business arrangement or was Powrhouse owned by Montgomery Ward? 

Edited by Duke Mantee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, unders said:

.. l was Googling to see if Levi’s clamped down on these actuates after they registered theirs. Couldn’t find anything but did see this interesting page of Levi’s ...

In sort of answer to your question, l think all the jeans shown being manufactured at this time had exposed rivets and levis type arcs, but customers were fed up with the exposed rivets. So when Levis brought out their patented hidden rivet jeans (1937), alot of companies lost out, as this stopped anyone else using this idea for 15 years. 

I quite often think that the 1937 type 501xx would have been the standard jean for more years to come, if the war hadn't intervened. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Duke Mantee said:

Standard Overall Mfg. Co. out of Wisconsin was the business that established the brand ‘Standard Overall’ as the label suggests - dunno how long they existed.

Was the Montgomery Ward stuff made by Powrhouse by way of a business arrangement or was Powrhouse owned by Montgomery Ward? 

Tbh mate l haven't researched either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr_Heech said:

I quite often think that the 1937 type 501xx would have been the standard jean for more years to come, if the war hadn't intervened. 

Thanks for these posts Charlie. Re the above, do you not think Levi’s would have dropped the cinch back anyway due to changing tastes? As you know, the press on suspender buttons were optional and many wearers were apparently cutting the cinch off anyway to wear a belt more comfortably.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Maynard Friedman said:

Thanks for these posts Charlie. Re the above, do you not think Levi’s would have dropped the cinch back anyway due to changing tastes? As you know, the press on suspender buttons were optional and many wearers were apparently cutting the cinch off anyway to wear a belt more comfortably.

I think you're right Martin. I think they would've dropped that feature eventually but l think Levis were always slow to change, so it would've been a few more years before that would have happened (?). Also, theirs was one of the few brands to have the cinch strap sort of under where the belt sits, making the cut off necessary, whereas most others the cinch strap sits under the belt so it's more of an option than a decision and/or loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Formal request, help me date these 501s... my grandma wants me to get an expert (that’s you guys, not me) to date my granddads jeans

I also don’t think i’ve shared any good photos so here you are, thanks

634A2FF3-A43A-4AF6-AFC5-B179308E769A.thumb.jpeg.3db4e4d2af26a9a00762f87da3ead9a2.jpeg

C763233C-47C9-4752-84D1-235AFA2F650A.thumb.jpeg.88d0e984d3bca39e48c054d69a197bb0.jpeg

558BD9FD-3370-4834-A06B-CCE07C3A5D6E.thumb.jpeg.0d0a585a21999e1f807d32f52e44f19a.jpeg

F5F3EF6D-DB5B-43B9-9E06-E8AFF54530A0.thumb.jpeg.926e9b6ce23b0e0a1ed782c0bbfad75e.jpeg

AA982B8D-2D39-4C14-ACD5-EAF5001F1164.thumb.jpeg.535b98fc90e92cb8d068552b8fe5ee85.jpeg

16E3B830-195B-4953-856F-D5A565074AE5.jpeg

Edited by scooby
oopsies
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, scooby said:

Formal request, help me date these 501s... my grandma wants me to get an expert (that’s you guys, not me) to date my granddads jeans

I also don’t think i’ve shared any good photos so here you are, thanks

Looks like they are from the early to mid 50s. Double sided red tab + leather patch would have to be before about 1955 ish. Thats an amazing pair, super cool they've been held on to in your fam

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@scooby

Double sided red tab so post 1953. Leather patch disappeared c.1959, no offset belt loop so pre-1958.

Nearest l can date them to is made somewhere between 1954 and 1957.

Dont suppose there are any numbers/letters on the button backs or hidden rivets??

Edited by Dr_Heech
To edit, dummy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These beauties were posted on lg the other day and l thought they were worth sharing. At first l thought they were the pair from the 501XX book but they are a different size and have a "for over 60 years" guarantee ticket.

But l wanted to share not only because they are awesome but also because they have what looks to have a visible reason for not being bought (?) back in the day - a pocket stitch malfunction. 

 

 

 

20210502_204224.jpg

 

20210502_204348.jpg

 

 

Then on closer inspection l noticed this  ....

 

 

 

20210502_204513.jpg

 

 

Yep, it's that weird (breifly used?) under-stitched middle back belt loop so that may help with when this feature was used? Although for what reason l still can't fathom out.

20210502_204601.jpg

Edited by Dr_Heech
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the other deadstock pair from the 501XX book, complete with the guarantee ticket "For over 50 years", so an earlier pair (although how early?) with a pic of the details showing the  regular back belt loop. They also came with a sales receipt dated 1936 (not shown).

 

 

20210503_093235.jpg

 

20210508_143545.thumb.jpg.7d918d66864a501e4b9e28fccb961aa3.jpg

 

According to the book the guarantee tickets are as follows -

 

20210503_093612.jpg

20210508_142218.jpg

 

So if "For over (F/o) 20 years" is c.1892, and "F/o 26 years" is c.1898, then "F/o 35 years" is c.1907.

So the next ticket is "F/o 50 years" which would make it c.1922, No??

But all the F/over 50 year tickets l've seen images of are all dated 1927, in line with the copyrighting of the Levis brand name, so not 1922. So does this mean that the ticket wasn't replaced in 1922 or did Levis wait til 1927 because they had this new branding idea (etc) in the pipeline???

My thinking is that Levis dating is all over the place as usual. So if 1922/1927 is the "F/o 50 years" then in my mind the "F/o 60 years" must be c.1932 ...No??

To be continued ...

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dr_Heech
Cos it takes ages to sort
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So l believe that the 1922 guarantee ticket was delayed due to some the following reasons. In 1919, Walter Haas joined the company and was given the task of turning around the ailing buisness within 2 years and that he did. In 1919 bartacking was becoming commonplace and in 1922 that new technology was used to put belt loops on the pants. Secondly he then introduced (c.1924-1927) the company to the modern production line, so the pants were made quicker/differently and more efficiently plus sewing, rivet and button technology were rapidly improving. Lastly, because everyone called their blue denim waist overalls 'Levis', the company was desperate to brand their stuff so it wouldn't be confusing for customers who bought inferior products thinking they were the original XX waist overalls. 

So therefore the next ticket "F/o 60 years" must be c.1932 imo. Also the model made in 1942 has a ticket stating "For over 70 years" (but still with the copyright 1927 in the corner) plus the second dated pocket flasher - the first one was dated 1937 but the second one (when they had to drop the word Copper) was dated 1942, so it makes sense: 1922(1927), 1932, 1942 are all 10 years apart.

 

In the 'Vintage Levis jackets' book, there is a 506 with an NRA tag; the only NRA tagged 501's are in the Levis archives and not in the 501XX book. The national recovery act was 1933-1935.

In this pick the following dates are also suggested ...

 

 

20210508_155813.jpg

20210508_155533.jpg

 

20210508_155948.jpg

 

So therefore l reckon the ds pair l first posted  ("F/o 60 years" ) with the inverted beltloop were made in c.1932/1933 just before the NRA came in to effect. All the pairs l have pics of (next post) are all post 1928, when Levis branding on more modern/functional buttons and rivets was established, but before 1933 (nra tagged) pairs.

Hey it's just a theory but something to mull over l guess :unsure2:

...

Edited by Dr_Heech
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

So therefore l reckon the ds pair l first posted  ("F/o 60 years" ) with the inverted beltloop were made in c.1932/1933 just before the NRA came in to effect. All the pairs l have pics of (next post) are all post 1928, when Levis branding on more modern/functional buttons and rivets was established, but before 1933 (nra tagged) pairs.

 

Hey it's just a theory but something to mull over l guess :unsure2:

...

I think it’s a very sound theory - logical

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...