The cost of the raw denim lifestyle

[TTM]

I've been mulling this over in my head as of late: is the lifestyle we here all share more expensive than a more traditional fashion lifestyle? Excluding outliers like the compulsive collectors or extravagant fashonista. Over the life cycle of a pair of raw denim does another man spend the same amount on pants?

Keep in mind:

High initial cost but long life

Resale value. I can't think of other clothing except high fashion that can be sold slightly used for a mere 10-20% loss.

[Guest umhaha84]

hm.....raw denim's hard to sell with 10% loss

[dawei69]

I guess it depends on what sort of raw denim too....

Nudies=resale value is 40%-50% loss

Samurai=resale value 5-10% loss

sugarcane=resale value like 20-30 gain (If u buy from japan and sell it in states)

[TTM]

thats besides the point. I think the 10-20% loss is pretty representative as a whole. The next best thing you can do with 'mall clothing' is donate it for a tax write off.

Will a person blow through $250 worth of normal pants over the life cycle of one pair of raw denim?

[greasypeanut]

Will a person blow through $250 worth of normal pants over the life cycle of one pair of raw denim?

im pretty sure most people would not.....250 dollars worth of run of the mill levis is....a lot of pair of levis. i know in middle school and hs, i prolly only had 3 pairs of jeans to last me the whole year, and i only got new pairs because of the color fading (keep in mind, they were being machine washed weekly by my mom)

[TTM]

speaking of resale value, that could be turned into a perfect statistics project. I think i'll lay the ground work for something like that right now... maybe in a few months it will make for a really interesting post.

Warming up excel as we speak.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I guess it depends on what sort of raw denim too....

Nudies=resale value is 40%-50% loss

Samurai=resale value 5-10% loss

sugarcane=resale value like 20-30 gain (If u buy from japan and sell it in states)

you wish so...

[younghwan91]

you wish so...

HAHAH SHAME

[dralfonzo]

dont understand the resale aspect of it really. Unless the jeans dont fit, why would you want to sell them? I dont buy jeans unless I want them and even when I've stopped wearing them everyday, I definatly wouldn't consider selling them. It all adds to my denim collection!

[joelz]

The way I figure it (in terms of both jeans and boots at least) is that the longevity/quality of the clothes we buy is significantly higher than mall/other clothing - so if I spend $200 on a pair of jeans they are going to last significantly longer than a pair of $40-$60 jeans. They also look better in the long run and aren't the same pair of jeans that everyone else in your town is running around in.

I'd say this argument also applies to boots - a good pair of boots costs over $300, but if treated well (and, to be honest, even if not treated too well) they'll last much longer than anything you'll buy from a designer (and pay a crapload for as well)

[Markmont]

thats besides the point. I think the 10-20% loss is pretty representative as a whole. The next best thing you can do with 'mall clothing' is donate it for a tax write off.

Will a person blow through $250 worth of normal pants over the life cycle of one pair of raw denim?

Good idea. If you get the facts, send them over my way and I'll design some info. graphics chart. Could be cool.

[nameness]

I think most of us can compare of pre-raw (PRR) time with our post-raw (PO[o]R) time as at some point you discover raw denim and don't look back.

> Will a person blow through $250 worth of normal pants over the life cycle of one pair of raw denim?

Depends on what you consider "normal pants". There's a big $ diff between say regular Levi's & retail price for say... Lucky or Diesel, etc. In my PRR time I bought Levi's (& DIckies), so that 250 went a long way. If I were buying Lucky retail... that's what, maybe two pair? Less chance they would last that long.

Then again, I see a fair amount of people who wear raws for 6 months and then move on, but I guess that's where resale comes into play.

Anyway, interesting original post.

[rnrswitch]

Can we stop using the term RAW to refer to expensive selvedge jeans. I have been wearing RAW jeans my entire life, but have only started about 7 years ago, blowing big money on selvedge denim.

IF we were to assume that the common dude wearing selvedge denim only bought one pair of jeans and boots and wore them until they were unwearable, then it may be true that in the long run you are saving money. But what is the cost of new premium selvedge denim and boots:

denim: about $250

boots: about $250 for RW to $500 and up for some of those gaudy Japanese repro things.

so anywhere from $500 to $750. So over the lifetime of your jeans and boots the common dude (working class non-fashionista) may spend more money than you but that is close.

If you want to throw in the cost of these ridiculously priced flathead, ironheart, sugarcane, etc. "workshirts" then there is no way we win on saving money. You almost have to have 5 shirts for a work week and that comes close to $1000 for 5 shirts.

But the reality is that probably less than 5% of us buy only one pair of denim over a year and most of us have many work boots and markmont could only tell you how many workshirts he has bought over the past 2 months.

So in the end all of this is for the birds because this selvedge denim game has turned into a big beasting fest over limited edition this and limited edition that, chromexcel leather this and horsehide that. Selvedge chambray, double chainstitched gussets this and single needle throughout left hand okinawa that.

It is truly getting sick and I have increasing felt like nike talk has over taken sufu.

[arem]

I have increasing felt like nike talk has over taken sufu.

This is so true. People still have this uncontrollable need to amass collections of the rarest or the most or the "best" shit that other people can't find. They still love being asked "Where'd You Get Those?", they've just changed obsessions to something 17 year olds aren't interested in.

[Hendodo]

uhhhh , going back to the 250 bucks for a pair of jeans compared to many "cheap jeans" . i think the cheap jeans would last longer.. realisticly, 5 pairs of levis/lees/ whatever will outlast one pair of selvage denim for sure..

[beatle]

raw denim life **worth every single penny***

[Medine]

uhhhh , going back to the 250 bucks for a pair of jeans compared to many "cheap jeans" . i think the cheap jeans would last longer.. realisticly, 5 pairs of levis/lees/ whatever will outlast one pair of selvage denim for sure..

This is definitely true. but also I don't think people wear there expensive selvedge jeans until theyre completely dead.. with repairs i would think you could get around 3-5 years with most pairs..

[thedoad]

Like it was said before, It all completely depends. I have friends that spend 40$ a year on 2 pairs of old navy pants, and friends that spend 100-150$ a pair on Lucky jeans or something similar that seem to not have the longest shelf life and they might buy 2 a year. Its all personal.

Lots of people like to spend 80$ on track pants which Ill never understand, Or blow through multiple pairs of 100$ shoes in a year while Ill wear slip ons until they fall apart. My room mate kind of jokes about the raw denim thing, But then he buys 150$ sunglasses. Which IMO is a huge waste of money.

So who knows. Lots of people spend stupid amounts of money on mostly stupid shit.

[wahwho11]

It's pretty much not worth it, but we do it anyways(beasting). Any expensive hobby is hard to justify unless there's a great resale value.

[Hendodo]

my fades are enough to justify

[rnrswitch]

I would like to think that when I blow $250 on a pair of jeans that they are somewhat made by a craftsman and not in some sweatshop in Mexico. I would like to think that some of my cash goes to the person that actually put them together rather than the top 1% of the company.

I don't do this simply for style or thinking it will last a lifetime, which hopefully they will, but because I believe in people making a living wage. If I could get Samurais made by with the same quality but they were made in some sweatshop in China and cost me $100, then I would not buy them.

I haven't done enough research on the japanese denim factories and how much their workers get paid, but I do assume they get paid a hell of a lot better than the sweat shops in Guatemala, honduras, etc.

[dralfonzo]

This is so true. People still have this uncontrollable need to amass collections of the rarest or the most or the "best" shit that other people can't find. They still love being asked "Where'd You Get Those?", they've just changed obsessions to something 17 year olds aren't interested in.

I agree with u in part, but I don't nessicarily think that if someone collects denim they are always doing it out of some desperate need for appriciation from others. I don't usually buy jeans unless I'm going to wear them, and wear them for a long time, but I bought some old 2nd hand lvc for cheap the other week and don't really intend on wearing them much, but I bought them because I LIKE them. Is there realy anything wrong with that? If you are truly interested/passionate about something then I see absolutly nothing wrong with buying something for the sake of having it (within reason).

I don't think that people should be made to feel guilty about buying stuff if they like it. I personally couldn't justify the money that some of the 'workshirts' from japan cost but if someone is interested enough in them o want to buy or collect them then thaw their business.

[fre-co]

I gotta agree with rnrswitch and I find myself doing that more and more these days.

This forum is turning into niketalk, just look at the 'what other things do you collect' thread and count the number of 'I used to collect Nike SB, vinyl figures, sneakers etc' replies....

This thread is pretty pointless.

[DrMoBueno]

the denim mannequins are good for laughs.

sweatshop isn't quite accurate. america has sweatshops. vietnam has sweatshops. china has forced labor camps, ie prisons, where criminals and political dissidents are essentially slaves.

i wonder how many japanese companies outsource their denim from china...

[rnrswitch]

the denim mannequins are good for laughs.

sweatshop isn't quite accurate. america has sweatshops. vietnam has sweatshops. china has forced labor camps, ie prisons, where criminals and political dissidents are essentially slaves.

i wonder how many japanese companies outsource their denim from china...

I agree with that, look at some of the factories in the garment district in LA. Shit don't look pretty, but I still have to try to put my money somewhere I think it will do the worker better and unfortunately chinese factories and many factories in 2nd and 3rd world countries are not providing for their workers.

Ohh but I digress, enough of that.

It seems like people use the whole, "it will last a lifetime and in the long run it is cheeper" argument simply to justify some of the crazy price tags on some of this stuff.

Also, on the whole "collecting" thing. I don't mind people collecting stuff or picking up stuff at the thrift store just to have. It is mostly harmless within reason, but has anyone looked at the selfedge thread lately? It just looks like one big beasting frenzy where everybody has "got to have it." I have to cop that shit man. I can't wait until people are lined up around the corner of selfedge waiting all night for the release of SExFHxIHxSCxMFSCx316x yada yada yada.

[rnrswitch]

my fades are enough to justify

Had to quote this because after having worn a pair of jeans and spent some quality time with them and looked at their intricate details and what is similar to other jeans and what is different it all makes it worth it.

[fre-co]

It seems like people use the whole, "it will last a lifetime and in the long run it is cheeper" argument simply to justify some of the crazy price tags on some of this stuff.

Also, on the whole "collecting" thing. I don't mind people collecting stuff or picking up stuff at the thrift store just to have. It is mostly harmless within reason, but has anyone looked at the selfedge thread lately? It just looks like one big beasting frenzy where everybody has "got to have it." I have to cop that shit man. I can't wait until people are lined up around the corner of selfedge waiting all night for the release of SExFHxIHxSCxMFSCx316x yada yada yada.

Again I have to agree.

No hate to Kiya, he is a good businessman bringing people what they want and seems pretty passionate about what he does.

Selfedge seems to be the epicentre of the whole beasting over japanese denim goods. My guess is that most of those people grew into it from sneaker beasting. I don't think it's any coincidence Kiya is involved in a sneaker shop too.

[Paul T]

Kiya is doing a great job of preserving endangered craft traditions; he's one of the few US dealers commissioning, for example, new denims and chambrays.

But there's a big problem there, always is with traditional items, whether they're leather bags, Leica cameras, or Belstaff jackets. With the proliferation of cheap clothing, the price of the decent stuff goes up. Soon, they get so expensive that purchasers don't buy it because it's a well-made product for a reasonable price, but because it's hip, because it's exclusive, because it's expensive.

The whole thing is pretty depressing; Belstaff stuff is now shit, and overpriced. One time decent leather gear, like Mulbery or Tanner Kroll, is expensive, but the quality fo the leather has tumbled.

I guess I'm showing my age, in that the last but one pair of vintage Levi's I got, late 50s or early 60s, cost £12.50. Even allow for inflation, and I find the £300 or so that is being asked for 555 LVC ludicrous. I'm glad people are being turned on to hardcore denim, though; most people will get bored and move on to something else, but some will stay with it, appreciate it, and maybe help other companies, who make great stuff, survive.

[jpsmith98]

I can't wait until people are lined up around the corner of selfedge waiting all night for the release of SExFHxIHxSCxMFSCx316x yada yada yada.

I can't wait until 6 months after this, when the supermarket is full of threads selling this shit, as the hypebeasts start to realize "wait, did i just spend $500 on a denim vest?"

[Maynard Friedman]

Is 'beasting' legal? I thought it could incur the death penalty in some states.